| ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 18 Feb 2024 4:12 a.m. PST |
And if Putin nukes Ukraine, he ends up with next to nothing. He already has next to nothing, natural resources aside, the industrial and civil infrastructure of what he currently occupies in Ukraine is anything from obliterated to merely bad. Highly likely to be horribly de-populated. Also worth remembering that every dead Russian Putin racks up has an impact on his economy. Apparently the average American will generate about 10 million dollars of GDP growth for the US over the course of their life. Even if the average Russian only generates a fraction of that once you start multiplying it by the casualty estimates and emigres that number gets real big. |
| Ned Ludd | 18 Feb 2024 10:33 a.m. PST |
An interesting article from yesterday.
link
|
| Cuprum2 | 19 Feb 2024 2:45 a.m. PST |
John Leahy, the growth of the Russian economy is absolutely natural. Don't you understand what a stupid thing the West has done? You gave Russia its own Russian market and squeezed Western business out of Russia. The same market that the West got practically for nothing after the collapse of the USSR, where there simply was no business of its own. Now you yourself have given everything to the Russians… This is a huge market, provided with resources at minimal prices. I thought that the main place of the departed Western businessmen would be taken by the Chinese, but no – the Russian authorities are diligently reviving Russian enterprises. Let there be problems, but these will be problems of growth… Old Soviet technologies will be rethought, new developments will be added, Western, Eastern and our own. The development will be fast. Tortorella, Putin will only use nuclear weapons if the West directly intervenes in the war. Then Russia will have no chance of winning – and we will all die together)))
They made fun of the famine – Russia is one of the largest food exporters. |
Sho Boki  | 19 Feb 2024 2:53 a.m. PST |
"Putin will only use nuclear weapons if the West directly intervenes in the war." And the West will directly intervene in the war only when Putin uses nuclear weapon. So no fear about nukes, just more ammo and long range weapons to Ukraine. |
| Cuprum2 | 19 Feb 2024 2:58 a.m. PST |
Yes, let's do it. Whatever doesn't kill us will make us stronger ;-) And catch new Ukrainians for them all over Europe – those that existed are already running out. |
| Sho Boki | 19 Feb 2024 3:11 a.m. PST |
Yes, I think too, that Russian permanent gruz 300 are better than gruz 200. :-)
And the West must send the pro-russian Russians to Russia. They must fight for their Czar. |
| Cuprum2 | 19 Feb 2024 3:18 a.m. PST |
Huge Russian losses exist only in your fantasies))) Only one mobilization took place in Russia, in Russia there is free exit from the country for everyone. What about in Ukraine?
And the Russians are not fighting for Putin – the Russians are fighting against the aggression of the West. And this narrative you imposed on them yourself. Putin does not need to do anything to win – you will be defeated by the stupidity of your own politicians. And do you know how the word Tsar is translated?
Caesar
Are you deliberately flattering Putin? Caesar knew no defeats ;) |
| Sho Boki | 19 Feb 2024 4:26 a.m. PST |
"And do you know how the word Tsar is translated?
Caesar" The word "Caesar" was forbidden for Muscovites, therefore they came up with such a substitution in their obsession.
"in Russia there is free exit from the country for everyone"
After millions escaped from mobilization, there are no free exit anymore.
"And the Russians are not fighting for Putin – the Russians are fighting against the aggression of the West."
As there are no aggression of the West, nobody never attacked Rossian Federation and there are only the imperial aggression of the Putin, then they fight only for Putin's Nazi ambitions as terrorist intruders.
"Putin does not need to do anything to win – you will be defeated by the stupidity of your own politicians."
This may be true. As Putin has been preparing for this big war for decades but our leaders are thinking about peace even now, then Putin definitely have advantages. Putin's plans do not include peace, war is his only hope. |
| Cuprum2 | 19 Feb 2024 5:38 a.m. PST |
Thank you. We had fun))) I especially liked about the preparations for war: he closed military schools, his police forces outnumber his army, his fleet is like a museum, aviation is half a museum… Putin's army was only suitable for driving the Mujahideen across the mountains and sands. He was saved by the USSR, which suddenly reached out to the throat of its enemy even from the grave. It's the Soviet factories and machine tools that miraculously remained that are now producing military products, it's the equipment coming from Soviet warehouses…
However, this was the case at the beginning of the war. Now everything is changing rapidly… The West wanted to finish her off, but instead he woke up the bear he had always feared. Putin is a rather mediocre politician. But against the backdrop of general mediocrity, he looks like a genius)))
Russia doesn't need Europe. What for? Russia is full of undeveloped and extremely rich territories. Russia needs security – which means neutral or friendly states on its borders. Russia is not the USSR. It does not need the expansion of communism. She has enough "living space". Colonies are not needed – there are more than enough resources… Why does she need Europe? To what? Previously, there were not enough seaports for trade (hence the desire to take Constantinople and the Baltic states) that were not controlled by other powers (usually unfriendly). But now there is global warming, the Northern Sea Route has become navigable. And this problem has become less relevant.
There is an enclave of Kaliningrad/Konigsberg. Point of tension. But even this problem can be solved (for example, by an exchange of territories or a system of agreements to create a transport corridor). Or you can arrange a blockade for the Russians – and, ultimately, start a war again. Do you want to see the war in Estonia? But it is the Baltic countries that are talking about the blockade… But the Russians will again be to blame))) And from Russia, travel to any country is absolutely unhindered. It will be limited only if a man of military age who wishes to leave has ALREADY received a summons for conscription for military service. But the only conscription took place last year.
By the way, many who left then have already returned – in Russia their standard of living turned out to be significantly higher)))
Here is an article about it (although it is stuffed with all sorts of propaganda nonsense, it still illuminates the reality):
link |
| doc mcb | 19 Feb 2024 8:58 a.m. PST |
NATO made sense when we faced an expansionist INTERNATIONAL Communist movement with a seductive ideology and world--domination ambitions. Russia has no such ideology and its ambitions are confined to Eurasia. I learned long ago, as a teacher and counselor, that you cannot help people who do not want to be helped. Poland and Germany and France and Britain are quite sufficient to keep Russia in check, if they have the will and spend the money. The US needs its money and also its will to secure our own borders and vital interests -- which Europe used to be but no longer. |
| Dagwood | 19 Feb 2024 12:06 p.m. PST |
Cuprum "The Russians are fighting against the aggression of the West" Because there are so many troops advancing on Moscow even now. Can't you tell when you are being lied to ? |
| SBminisguy | 19 Feb 2024 2:34 p.m. PST |
Back to one of the op topics – American public support for Ukraine is thin and unravelling quickly because the Ukraine supporters cannot make their case and fall back on insults when questioned. I don't want to see that happen, but it's going to happen because the War supporters can't make any arguments other than "Munich appeasement, he's Hitler! You're a Putin Puppet!" AND they have cast this in terms of US domestic politics as being tied to being pro-Biden (CASH FOREVER FOR UKRAINE!) or pro-Trump. Heck, even Ukrainian State-controlled media has jumped on this game, attacking Trump. How stupid. What a losing strategy. This means that you have polarized support for Ukraine instead of building broader consensus, and so when the US political situation changes -- buh bye support! And Ukraine supporters have only themselves to blame. So IF you want long term US support for Ukraine you need better arguments and tangibles. You need to persuade, not browbeat and control. |
Tortorella  | 19 Feb 2024 3:53 p.m. PST |
SB the election politics behind this is essential to whole picture. Cannot say much more except look at the House and its no-governance policy, and where it gets its marching orders. Loss of public support for Ukraine has mostly been on one side, driven by the campaign strategy of the elephant in the room. If you want more backing to withdraw support from Ukraine after all we have invested, you need a much bigger tent. But it may be too late. You can't punch a whole in the legislative process like this and fix it in time to prevent the intended critical disruption and chaos. No point in claiming victimhood when you have already won. |
| SBminisguy | 19 Feb 2024 5:57 p.m. PST |
No point in claiming victimhood when you have already won. Don't be silly. I'm not interested in "winning" this issue -- I'm telling you what's going to happen. There was absolutely no reason for the Democrats to turn this into a partisan domestic litmus-test issue. SB the election politics behind this is essential to whole picture. Why? Why is that? I'd like an explanation. Loss of public support for Ukraine has mostly been on one side, driven by the campaign strategy of the elephant in the room. No, loss of support it pretty frickin' broad by now since people read Ukraine gets billions while Americans at home get the shaft. The elephant in the room is that the Democrats cannot articulate why Ukraine without devolving into false-sounding chest beating jingoism. |
| doc mcb | 19 Feb 2024 9:20 p.m. PST |
It IS the Jacksonians vs the Wilsonians. |
| Cuprum2 | 19 Feb 2024 9:38 p.m. PST |
Dagwood, tell me, how far has the Warsaw Pact advanced in the West over the past thirty years? How far has NATO advanced to the East?
This will be the answer to your question: "NATO is moving to the East." NATO needs to be stopped… How is another question. But it was not possible to agree on this peacefully. |
| MilEFEX3030 | 20 Feb 2024 12:13 a.m. PST |
@SBminisguy, this didn't help the Ukranian claims they weren't a globalist puppet or garner much support from mentally stable Americans either: link |
| MilEFEX3030 | 20 Feb 2024 12:16 a.m. PST |
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| ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 20 Feb 2024 12:31 a.m. PST |
Dagwood, tell me, how far has the Warsaw Pact advanced in the West over the past thirty years? How far has NATO advanced to the East? Because your former vassal states the moment the colonial boot was off their neck looked around for security partners and went 'NATO should prevent history from repeating itself'. And all the invasion of Ukraine has demonstrated is that Putin at least can't let go former Imperial possessions, ignores security guarantees if it suits and that they were tight to worry about history repeating. Does Britain have rights to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, bits of Africa even? They used to be ours and their are plenty of English and English-speakers there? NATO isn't advancing east your near abroad is running away from Putin's Russia for a better life! |
| backstab | 20 Feb 2024 2:01 a.m. PST |
Cuprum2 .. Tell me why all the ex Warsaw Pact countries no longer trust Russia and joined NATO? |
| Dragon Gunner | 20 Feb 2024 2:30 a.m. PST |
"you will be defeated by the stupidity of your own politicians."- Cuprum Cuprum +1 I might not agree with you about much but on this 100%. |
| Dragon Gunner | 20 Feb 2024 2:39 a.m. PST |
"SB the election politics behind this is essential to whole picture." I try to avoid politics on TMP but this needs to be commented on. 1. If Biden wins then Ukraine support might continue, perhaps too late to make a difference. 2. If Trump wins he said he would cut a deal with Putin and the war would be over. Ukraine and Russia might have something to say about that… link |
| MilEFEX3030 | 20 Feb 2024 2:49 a.m. PST |
@ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa – Are Australia, New Zealand, Canada and bits of Africa being courted by an alliance that are against the interests of the UK? Until then please be quiet. Also Russias situation would be more like Scottland being overthrown by a foreign power who then sent death squads after English citizens. It's also similar to when Noriega started wasting Americans. Bush didn't hesitate (and neither should he have) to send in the paratroopers and the Marines to protect American citizens and to protect the interests of the USA in its own backyard. It's also similar to when a Communist coup took over from a Socialist in Grenada and Cuban engineers moved in to Grenada to contstruct a runway perfectly suitable for Soviet strategic bombers. Reagen sent in the paratroopers, as he should have. Now the CIA installed a government in Ukraine in 2014 that no longer was neutral to Russia and ceased its agreement to share Sevastapol (at the USA's insistence). Hence Russia rolled through Crimea. The CIA installed government then persisted to poke and provoke Russia, with Banderas executing ethnic Russians in the Donbas. It peaked when they shelled innocent Russians. That's when Russia started supporting ethnic Russian resistance groups… and now here we are because "Putin invaded Ukraine for no reason just because he's just darn evil." – keep believing that, it will be easier to identify your default position in the next media/deep state psy-op on its own citizens. OR you could choose to be informed, remember longer than the last 5 minutes of history and be objective? I dunno, your choice. |
| MilEFEX3030 | 20 Feb 2024 2:56 a.m. PST |
@backstab. I dunno about the rest of the former USSR but Ukraine did trust Russia and have good relations with it, until the CIA instigated coup in 2014 to install an anti-Russian leadership there. If you think that's a conspiracy then you probably believe Russia blew up its own pipeline too. |
| Cuprum2 | 20 Feb 2024 4:20 a.m. PST |
Oh… All the questions asked to me have already been answered here without me. When NATO expanded, Russia lost the war to its own province. Chechnya. Do you remember? Russia was so weak that it was capable of little. And she remained like that for a long time.
Was it this Russia that Eastern Europe was afraid of? Don't you find it funny yourself? Don't put the cart before the horse. This NATO advance provoked Russia to resist this process, and not vice versa. Western politicians assured us then that NATO was not directed against Russia, but you now claim that this is not so. And we understood this even then – all this talk about the end of the Cold War along with the disappearance of communism in Russia was simply a lie, in fact, the goal was not communism, but Russia.
Russia "showed its teeth" for the first time in Georgia in 2008. By the way, Georgia is still not occupied – although it already lost that war and Russian troops were then one step away from the Georgian capital, but went back. And now it is quite reasonable that Georgia maintains a neutral status and does not have any problems with Russia. And there is no pro-Russian government there, there were no occupied territories. The status quo was simply restored.
I wonder what would have happened if the 2022 peace negotiations had ended in success then? Federal structure of Ukraine, with the inclusion of the DPR and LPR? Neutral status enshrined in the constitution? One thing is for sure – thousands of people would be alive, and the world would not be on the brink of a nuclear disaster… Regarding the pipeline, Russia still pumps gas to Europe through the territory of Ukraine and pays Ukraine for gas transit… Because there is a contract, and Russia is fulfilling it.
So who can't be trusted? Original article (by subscription): link For those who want to save money, there is a reverse translation of this article from Russian: link |
| Tortorella | 20 Feb 2024 5:45 a.m. PST |
Sometimes, SB, we are just on different pages. I do not think you are making an unreasonable argument. We cannot overtly delve into politics here, however, which is what would happen in order for me to make my points. I can't tell you what I think is happening and especially not why. I was not talking about you winning as an individual. My apologies. I meant " you" in the broad generic sense. It is pretty much over for Ukraine as it currently stands. The logistical hole in the road will buy time for Putin and more division for Americans until the election. |
| doc mcb | 20 Feb 2024 7:40 a.m. PST |
Ukraine trusts the Russians? Maybe all the Ukrainians who did not trust them died in the Holodomer? |
| 35thOVI | 20 Feb 2024 9:34 a.m. PST |
Остерегайтесь русских, приносящих подарки. 😉 |
| ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa | 20 Feb 2024 10:28 a.m. PST |
Until then please be quiet. No. People need to stop willfully misunderstanding the basics of being a member of a defensive organisation. And resorting to evidence free conspiracy hand waving. If you want an organisation that could be cogently argued to be against Russia's interests that would actually be membership of that protectionist trade block the EU…. I also wonder what your opinion of the UK governments relocation of unaccompanied children to its former colonies? The CIA installed government then persisted to poke and provoke Russia, with Banderas executing ethnic Russians in the Donbas. It peaked when they shelled innocent Russians. That's when Russia started supporting ethnic Russian resistance groups… Well at least that publicly settles your position. |
| SBminisguy | 20 Feb 2024 10:37 a.m. PST |
@DragonGunner 2. If Trump wins he said he would cut a deal with Putin and the war would be over. Ukraine and Russia might have something to say about that… Well, Ukraine and Russia obviously have a say about it -- and as it turns out they said let's negotiate a peace deal in 2022 to end the war, brokered with the aid of Israel (PM Naftali Bennet) and Turkey. And THEN the Biden team stepped in and killed the deal. The war could have been over before so much loss of life and destruction -- so WHY did Biden do that? Boris Johnson also came mumbling forward to pressure Ukraine to kill the deal. Why? Regardless of HOW the War started -- since it started: 1. The US/NATO have killed a Ukraine-Russia peace deal and then lied about it 2. The US/NATO Establishment tell is Russia is on the verge of collapse, but that's obviously a knowing lie. Even Newsweek says the Russian economy is growing faster than the US economy, and independent economists have published data showing Russian oil exports have rebounded, their economy has rebounded. Yet they continue to lie about it. 3. It's an open secret that the US blew up the Nordstream Pipeline to punish Russia and inflame the situation, and the Biden team and Establishment continue to broadcast Ukrainian victories that aren't decisive and they continue to use overheated hype-talk and chest beating and "in it to win it" stupidity when they know that things are not as they claim. So they are also lying about the progress of the war. So how do we get out of this fine mess they helped engineer? |
| Dagwood | 20 Feb 2024 11:05 a.m. PST |
Cuprum, "Dagwood, tell me, how far has the Warsaw Pact advanced in the West over the past thirty years? How far has NATO advanced to the East?" Not as far as the Russian border, last time I looked. |
| David Manley | 20 Feb 2024 1:44 p.m. PST |
"Not as far as the Russian border, last time I looked." Finland? Estonia? Latvia? |
| backstab | 20 Feb 2024 2:32 p.m. PST |
David , why did those 3 countries join NATO? |
| David Manley | 20 Feb 2024 3:06 p.m. PST |
National security and mutual defence, I would imagine |
| Cuprum2 | 20 Feb 2024 8:10 p.m. PST |
The Holodomor is a propaganda myth of Ukrainian nationalists. There really was a famine, but no one artificially organized it. It was a combination of poor government management and adverse weather conditions. And there was famine in most territories of the USSR. Just look at the map of regions affected by famine – it was not only Ukraine that suffered (number 8 on the last map). The greatest population losses were then in Kazakhstan:
Well, don't forget that Ukraine was then ruled not by Russians, but by Ukrainian communists. There is no national or political background here. Periodic famines were commonplace for centuries in Russia before the advent of modern agricultural methods.
I won't argue about the Holodomor; you don't have to answer. But if you are interested in this topic, just pay attention to other regions during this period. For example, that part of Ukraine that belonged to Poland. You will probably be surprised to learn that there was a famine there too and people died… But everyone is silent about it.
SBminisguy, politics is not done on emotions. I believe Nord Stream was blown up to reduce Russia's income, as well as to promote trade in American liquefied gas (much more expensive than Russian pipeline gas). Otherwise, who would buy it?
This is more business than emotions.
During the Cold War, Finland cooperated closely with the USSR (even purchased Soviet weapons) and at the same time no one threatened it. On the contrary, it had enormous economic benefits from trade with the USSR, and later with Russia.
Now the Baltic countries are not able to support themselves – they are supported by Europe, and the main product they trade is the "Russian threat".
Why the Finns needed to target Russian missiles at themselves and lose billions from trade with Russia is not clear to me. This is probably the result of general anti-Russian hysteria. If Russia needed Finland, the USSR could have occupied it twice in the last century. |
 Editor in Chief Bill   | 20 Feb 2024 9:18 p.m. PST |
…While scholars are in consensus that the cause of the famine was man-made, whether the Holodomor constitutes a genocide remains in dispute. Some historians conclude that the famine was deliberately engineered by Joseph Stalin to eliminate a Ukrainian independence movement.[c] Others suggest that the famine was primarily the consequence of rapid Soviet industrialisation and collectivization of agriculture. A middle position, held for example by historian Andrea Graziosi, is that the initial causes of the famine were an unintentional byproduct of the process of collectivization but once it set in, starvation was selectively weaponized and the famine was "instrumentalized" and amplified against Ukrainians to punish them for their rejection of the "new serfdom" and to break their nationalism.[10]… Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor |
| SBminisguy | 21 Feb 2024 8:20 a.m. PST |
@Cuprum2 The Holodomor is a propaganda myth of Ukrainian nationalists. Nope, sorry, it really happened and it was horrific. Man-made famines have been used across history to control and punish people, inadvertent or deliberate. Stalin killed several million with his programs and pogroms, Mao's Great Leap Forward killed tens of millions -- and Pol Pot from a population percentage wins the prize for the highest percent of the national population killed through forced collectivization and pogroms. So accept it. And accept it was the USSR who did it, not contemporary Russia. Learn from it, don't avoid it – nor feel guilt-wracked over it. But to downplay it is foolish and undermines your credibility. Not everything your country does, or my country does, is defensible or worthy of defending. Stalin's treatment of Ukrainians is also why so many were willing to join the Nazi side. |
| Tortorella | 21 Feb 2024 11:14 a.m. PST |
SB, saying that the "Biden team stepped in and killed the deal" on early peace talks is too simplistic, IMO. There is probably no way to document how much influence was used, or why, mostly just partisan speculation. This is relentless, as if Putin and Zelensky were bit players under Biden's control. Putin and Zelensky both talked about conditions that might have been deal breakers, apparently, but I think there was a bigger factor. My guess is as good as yours, but – there was no way Zelensky was going to turn around so soon after seeing so many Ukrainian civilians murdered by Russians and trust Putin on any deal. |
| SBminisguy | 21 Feb 2024 2:18 p.m. PST |
SB, saying that the "Biden team stepped in and killed the deal" on early peace talks is too simplistic, Hey, go talk to Naftali Bennet, former PM of Israel, he's the one who said that happened. This is relentless, as if Putin and Zelensky were bit players under Biden's control. Putin and Zelensky both talked about conditions that might have been deal breakers, apparently, but I think there was a bigger factor. What's relentless? Putin's not under Biden's control -- but Zelensky is. Sure, Putin mistook Biden's off the cuff remark about not reacting to a "minor incursion" into Ukraine, but that was all his decision. However, Zelensky owes his regime and possibly his life to the US and is totally dependent upon the US for money, aid and military equipment and training. So when Team Biden gets the word to Zelensky that if he cuts a peace deal with Russia, the US will cut him off at the knees and stop *all* aid to Ukraine -- what's he going to do? He did what was commanded of him. It's not like Biden didn't have a track record of threatening Ukrainian leaders with cutting off aid if they didn't do what they want, or anything… Biden Tells Story of Getting the Ukraine Prosecutor Fired that was investigating his son YouTube link My guess is as good as yours, but – there was no way Zelensky was going to turn around so soon after seeing so many Ukrainian civilians murdered by Russians and trust Putin on any deal. My guess is that you're totally wrong based on the timeline of events. The peace deal was brokered just a few months into the War before it got more nasty and bitter. So why wouldn't Zelensky want to put the brakes on a war he didn't want, which was destructive and has no good ending in sight? |
| Tortorella | 21 Feb 2024 5:48 p.m. PST |
Well, maybe I am only a third wrong, or maybe half. I thought that by the time the chances for talks ended, a number of Ukrainian villages had had civilians executed by the Russians, hands zip tied behind their backs and The Hague had sent in war crime investigators. I think Zelensky actually spoke out to the Western press that he did not see how they could negotiate after these crimes. It may be that Zelensky was confident that with the widespread global support at that time, there was a chance of getting Putin out of Ukraine. Or maybe he was as outraged as Israel was on Oct. 7 and saw no way to just accept what they had suffered. Also, I thought it was Boris Johnson who got involved around this time and helped end possible talks? He was there at some point. |
| Cuprum2 | 22 Feb 2024 6:18 a.m. PST |
SBminisguy, I devoted quite a lot of time to studying the famine in the USSR in the 30s of the last century. And I have not yet seen any evidence of deliberate organization of the famine. I repeat that this was a combination of natural factors (two years in a row of dry, low-yield summers) and the incompetence of the leadership, which in this situation increased the tax rate (taxes in rural areas were collected in products, not in money) and launched a large-scale collectivization campaign (the creation of large agricultural enterprises where it was possible to use machine labor rather than plow animals, which did not allow obtaining a lot of marketable product).
There was famine in almost half of the territory of the USSR, and not just in Ukraine. Just look at the number of famine victims in other territories and you will see that there was no separate "Ukrainian" famine.
Also, I have never seen any evidence of any particular hostility of Stalin towards Ukrainians. All other peoples of the USSR suffered equally from repression, including the Russians (who suffered the most simply due to the fact that there are more of them). In addition, in all the republics of the USSR, the overwhelming number of leadership positions were occupied by communists of local nationalities.
Now nationalists in all the former republics of the USSR are inflating myths that these nationalities were somehow treated particularly poorly in the USSR. It's funny that Russian nationalists say that the communist Jews treated the Russians worst of all, who suffered the most (which is true, if you look at the numbers))) |
| Sho Boki | 22 Feb 2024 8:44 a.m. PST |
I hope that everyone can see why, where and how Cuprum lies? |
| SBminisguy | 22 Feb 2024 9:29 a.m. PST |
I think Zelensky actually spoke out to the Western press that he did not see how they could negotiate after these crimes. He is capable of surprises, like when he rejected Biden's offer of comfy exile at the start of the War, but I think Zelensky knows where is support comes from and will do what he's told within reason. I would also expect that if for whatever reason aid to Ukraine dries up, there'll be a peace deal with Russia in talks within 24 hours. Kinda like the "Kurdish Group Trump abandoned in Syria!" meme -- the US topped backing an anti-Assad PKK terrorist offshoot group and within 24 hours they'd cut a deal with Assad. |
| SBminisguy | 22 Feb 2024 9:52 a.m. PST |
SBminisguy, I devoted quite a lot of time to studying the famine in the USSR in the 30s of the last century So did I. Was a Cold Warrior Gen-X youngster who studied the Soviet Union in order to understand the Enemy. That was my university major -- and at one point I was fluent in Russian and could also read Old Church Slavonic. And I studied Marxism, Lenin, the rise of the Bolsheviks, the transition to Stalin – all of it so I could help fight them -- and did as a minot functionary in the Dc defense establishment. The Communists were uncaring ideological brutal inhuman bastards -- as they are everywhere they have power. Stalin ordered the "Dekulakization" of Russia and especially Ukraine where there was some historic resistance to Soviet rule -- and Stalin hated and mistrusted Ukrainians for having been a bastion of the White Russian factions of the Russian Civil War. So, yes, Stalin ordered the execution of millions of people, the land-owning peasant farming "Kulaks" who were the backbone of the agricultural economy. Shot them on their farms, shot them when they protested, shot them on the way to the cattle cars, shot them when they got to the gulags, and – well, you get it. Shot them. Took the farms. Ejected the farmers. Siezed all the food. Only gave food to the "approved" Communist class and let the rest starve -- and when they rebelled or protested -- shot them. So stop squirming away from the Brutality of the Soviet Union, and the brutality of Stalin. It is what it is. Accept it. Move on. Accept that many Ukrainians were pushed into feeling a separate identity after such persecution and oppression. And that's why so many joined the Nazis, so they could strike back at the Soviets who had been so brutal towards them. Of course, all they did was swap devils. And then Putin was stupid and thought it was 1919 and he could invade and conquer a neighbor -- and since then the Ukrainian national identity has only grown deeper. This war is all because the stupidity, ego and arrogance of Putin, fueled by the stupidity, ego and arrogance of Western leaders. Oh -- and Pavlik Morozhov, first Youth Martyr of the Soviet Union was a fabrication of the GPU. Just in case you still believed in Soviet myths -- he was an angry kid who was manipulated and then executed by the GPU who made up the story about his "heroic deed" denouncing his father as an enemy of the state who was then "martyred" by his anti-State enemy grandfather. All a lie. I read the documents. So -- yeah, the Communists were and are brutal lying bastards. They ruled Russia for generations and you're the better for them being gone -- and there's no reason for you to excuse their actions. |
