"Painted 300 British, Army Painter Speedpaint WARNING!" Topic

So I just completed a massive AWI painting project, over 600 models all told. Of that, about 300 give or take were British.

Over the past several years my go-to method of painting that I developed was using Contrasts/Speedpaints primarily, with regular acrylic model paints over them for drybrushes and highlights.

With the Citadel Contrasts this technique has proven to be enormously effective. Just this past year, 2023 I added to that technique arsenal the Army Painter Speedpaints.

My AWI British were the first real and substantial usage of the Speedpaint colors. I used a red Speedpaint as the base color for all my British coats, "Blood Red":

This is from the newer "2.0" Speedpaint line. Apparently with the initial release of the SP's in 2022 Warlord Games was dealing with an issue that many painters were reporting of dried SP's reactivating when another layer of paint or wash, etc. was applied over them.

According the Warlord, the reactivation issue was corrected with the newer 2.0 range, they claim that the formula was changed and that it was no longer an issue.

Well I am here to tell you that, at least with the colors I've used, the reactivation issue was NOT resolved with the 2.0 range release. For this project I ended up using about 20 or so of the SP 2.0 range and I can report that the reactivation problem happened with at least 5 of the colors.

But the worst culprits were the red and blue. The Blood Red pictured above had an absolutely horrible reactivation. When painting the British coats, and inevitably getting some red onto the cartridge box straps, etc. When attempting to go and paint the white strap over the red to clean it up, the red was so strong and reactivation was so bad that it turned the white strap into a medium pink.

This was even after letting the red SP dry for as long as a week. It does not cure.

It was so bad that even after SEVERAL coats of white over the red to cover the cartridge box strap, the red was STILL coming through and soaking into the white.

I finally came up with a solution for this, which was to first paint the strap in a blackish color, I used SP Gravelord Gray:

This caused the red to mix with the black liquid and left you with a gray base to work with, which you could then paint the white over for the final finish.

During trial and error, another color which seemed to dilute the red was Vallejo Game Color Wolf Gray:

For some reason, putting a light gray over the reactivated red seemed to arrest the process, and when you painted white over it the white finally covered it fully.

The reactivation of the red wasn't as bad when it was adjacent to other colors like dark or medium browns, those could be disguised much more easily. But as I said, when it came up against anything you had to paint white, like the straps or like the white tail linings of the Brisith coats, it was an absolute nightmare.

Down below are pics. of one of my Contintental regiments, which had red coat facings and red coat lining so I ran into the same red up against white problem that I did with my British, you can see that the cartridge pouch straps turned out pretty solid white. However, in person if you look at these up close you can still see even now some hints of pink in the straps, although it's very subtle.

SECOND WARNING:

If you are using red speedpaint, or any speedpaint for that matter, DO NOT attempt to use a brush on varnish after painting!! When I eventually reached my varnishing stage for the project, the miniatures had had about six weeks to dry! And when I put some liquid acrylic varnish onto the first British soldier, the varnish immediately reactivated the red and the entire model was coated in a pink-toned varnish. Horrified, I immediately ceased brushing on varnish and reverted to Testors Gloss Cote and Dull Cote spray varnishes.

It's as simple as that. My rule of thumb now is ANY MODEL where I'm using ANY Speedpaints on it, must be given a spray varnish, you can't trust the SP's because they simply don't cure. Remember, this happpened on models that I let sit for a month and a half before varnishing.

Now the good news is it seems that after you get a couple coats of spray varnish over the SP's, the colors finally get locked down and the reactivation is finally halted. I tested this and went back and used some matte brush on varnish over spots of models where the Dull Cote hadn't completely eliminated the first coat of gloss. The red didn't budge, and the brush on varnish went on clean. No reactivation at that point.

I informed Warlord about this issue but haven't gotten any reply or feedback.

It's POSSIBLE that this is an isolated thing and that maybe I accidentally had 1.0 liquid that they put into 2.0 bottles somehow? I highly doubt that, it's very unlikely. What's much more likely is that 2.0 still has the same problems as the first release and that whatever Warlord claimed was changed in the formula either wasn't changed or something went wrong in the chemistry.

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…so just one additional note to this post. You may have read through this and then asked, "so why did you keep using the red Speedpaint after you discovered the reactivation issue???"

That's a legitimate question! And the answer is because ironically the SP's coverage of a model is SUPERB. The pigment is SUPERB. With SP's as well as the Contrasts, you can paint base coat colors on models about 2x to 3x faster than you can with traditional model paints. The color quality fantastic with the SP's.

The Speedpaints are absolutely ideal for painting large armies! EXCEPT for the reactivation issue, lol.

Speedpaints 2.0 have addressed the problem of reactivation according to the folks at Army Painter. I have had no issues with reactivation in the 2.0 speedpaints.

Thanks for the update, I have been gun shy on 2.0 after getting a lot of reactivation problems on 1.0.

Nice looking unit. You got great results on the trousers, is this just the speed paint white?

John

You got very nice results in the end, which counts for a lot.

I would consider using a spray matte after speed painting and before any color which goes over speedpainted surfaces.

@jwebster,

Happy to help. Thanks for the compliment, much appreciated!

Ah, the trousers I'm glad you asked that. Those were actually done with Citadel Contrast Apothecary White. I found it to be superior to any of the Speedpaints that simulate light gray or white. The waistcoats were all done in the same pass in exactly the same way.

The thing that I love about Apothecary White is that you are left with a light gray with subtle gray shading. I also add a drybrush of regular white paint over the Apothecary White for all the breeches and waistcoats of both the Contintentals and the British.

I like the look of the breeches being a light gray as opposed to pure white because sometimes out in daylight white cloth gives off a grayish cast with the light reflecting off it.

You might have better luck reaching out to Army Painter, rather than Warlord.

Currently painting Zulu War British and use SP 2.0 Bright Red for the coats. I have also used this color for my WSS red coats.

To me this is the right color for the red coats. I put it on in one layer – let it dry for 1 day and then add "Future" floor finish" all over the model and have zero problems with the colors running.

I then shoot the whole model with a dull coat spray. THey look the part to me. Love these paints.

@Royal Airforce,

That was a mental glitch on my part! I meant to say Army Painter when I said Warlord! Oops…don't know why I got it stuck in my head that Warlord made these.

Would painting the red, waiting for it to dry then spraying the matte sealer on the model, letting it dry and then going back over with other colors have solved the problem? I'd give that a try.

@Raynman,

Indeed, that would be the logical step to put in to seal the red. The only problem with this is that I found the SP blue colors to also do this and even the greens. So if you needed to use several SP color on the same batch of models you'd be stopping to a lot of sealer steps in between painting.

However, that is still the best solution that I can see, I agree with you!

I guess the other approach is to only use one SP color on a batch of models that you really like, and then go with Contrasts for the rest of the colors. That way you're only having to do the sealing one time for just that one problematic color.

It's not quite that bad, Baranovich. You could use multiple SP paints as long as they weren't adjacent. For myself, I'm not convinced of their advantages on small items, and will usually use the technique--either SP or Contrast--on larger surfaces, switching to regular acrylics for, say, collars and cuffs. This also avoids the problem of the red from the coat showing up through the blue of the cuffs, which I think is a problem inherent in these heavy washes unless you're exceptionally careful in the application of the first colors.

(And as far as I'm concerned, that exceptional care takes a lot of the joy out of the heavy wash technique.)

Thanks for the warning. I was aware of the reactivation issue, but I decided to trust Army Painter's word that it was solved and I am also now heavily invested in Speedpaints. I'm going to be really miffed if I start finding it's not resolved with colors I want to use.

FWIW, I had this same problem using both Future and brush-on Dullcote lacquer over FW acrylic inks, years before Speedpaints were invented. Future and lacquers are very different chemical mediums. Lacquer spray is known to partially dissolve acrylics and enamels in certain combinations (I think because the solvent is too aggressive?); brush-on lacquer might be less chemically aggressive, but Future is (<sigh> was) a deliberately benign chemical medium.

For panel-lining airplanes, the way I worked around this problem was to use the FW ink as a tint in Future, to make a custom wash. The ink gets bound up in the Future layer as it dries, so it's not reactivate-able anymore. If you're using really thinned down Speedpaints, it might pay to thin them with a clear acrylic medium like this.

I also use FW inks as a tint for mixing custom acrylic colors. These don't have any problems with reactivation either.

- Ix

Total agree on the Apothecary White. The SP "white" color just comes out grey and greyish! I do prefer some SP colors to the Contrast though.

I have not had any problems with the reactivation, but I generally only dry brush and then spray varnish anyway. An AP rep told me early on that going over the figures with heat from a hair drier will cure it.

I remember seeing a video where they mixed the paint you want to cover over speed paint w/some speed paint medium and it did not reactivate the paint. You might want to give that a try.

Thanks for all the info. and tips everyone, much appreciated!

@Yellow Admiral, OH wow yeah I remember having the same issue with brush on Dull-Cote over acrylic paints and inks! For me it was like 2007 and I was still new to varnishing. I lived in an apt. and so spray varnish just wasn't doable.

During that time I was using mostly Citadel paints and inks. I remember the Dullcote started to actually eat away at the paint and make it lift off and move.

Some have said that when using brush on Dullcote that that happens because you're brusing back and forth too much, that you have to just make one pass and not go back over the same area. I suppose there's something to that but jeez, it was so unforgiving. I never went back to brush on lacquer after that.

@farnox,

Hmmm, that's interesting. Thanks for the tip, I will give that a try and report back!

Oy! I wonder if all this profusion of specialized paint formulas is causing problems that formerly did not exist. Why can't we keep it simple?

I know that I have a lot of trouble these days looking at a hobby paint display and not knowing what all these bizarrely named paint classifications are supposed to mean in the real world or how they were designed to be used.

Is this new urge to paint stuff as quickly as possible on the fly leading down a slippery slope of uber-confusion and unintended consequences?

I'd prefer one type of paint and then learning to work with it. That's been a fine technique for decades. Oh, and add some inks to the mix. But I am not convinced all these extra spinoffs are better for the hobby than they are for the manufacturers taking advantage of gamers looking for a new short cut.

Agree, Major. I'm reminded of smart phones and this constant need to keep relearning how to use one every few years, when the "old" one becomes useless or unfashionable or unrepairable or unreliable. Dig that hole, fill it in, then dig another one, except now we won't give you a tool you recognize and you're on your own to learn!

Consumerism wants to keep us chasing our tail until we go broke or die.

@Major Dundee and piper909,

I understand what you're saying, but I think it misrepresents the issue.

I still use traditional model paints as well as the Contrasts and Speedpaints. It's not about instant gratification and trying to paint stuff super fast to get it over with. My AWI project still took over 4 months to complete, even with the Contrasts and Speedpaints.

It's not about abandoning traditional ways of doing something, and it's certainly not comparable to the Smart Phone where they market you a new one every three months when your current phone is still perfectly good.

The Contrasts and Speedpaints taught me about color transparency and how to use different strengths of different colors to more effectively cover a model. It IS about "speed" but not in the hasty or rushed way. It's about painting smarter to get through 20 red jackets or 20 brown pairs of trousers more efficiently than you could with a traditional pot of paint.

Traditional paints of course are still viable. But for me the Contrasts have become the new way to do the base coat colors of models primarily. That's not abandoning the old. It's rather embracing the new.

I will admit that since using the Contrasts and Speedpaints, trying to paint base coat colors on models now with traditional paints DOES feel insanely slow. And that's because it is. The Contrasts are best thought of as not "replacing" paints. They ARE paints. Just in a very thinned down form. They have pigments that are as strong as thicker paints but go on the model much, much quicker and smoother. Without having to thin them with water or medium.

They can certainly be thinned when you want a lighter or more subtle tone.

The issues of reactivations with the Speedpaints is an issue that is not found at all with the Contrasts.

The reason for me posting this in the first place was not to cause a debate over the moral/societal implications of replacing old tools with new tools. It was simply to point out that the Speedpaints are an excellent hobby product that have one major issue that needs to be worked out.

" Speedpaints are an excellent hobby product that have one major issue that needs to be worked out"
"Major issue" clearly disqualifies any product from being excellent! They aren't going to reformulate the paint.

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