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"Looking for connoisseurs of 25mm samurai figures ?" Topic


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Action Log

09 Feb 2024 2:00 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Looking for connoisseurs of 25 mm samurai figures ?" to "Looking for connoisseurs of 25mm samurai figures ?"

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Comments or corrections?

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2024 11:56 a.m. PST

Hello everyone,

For what period are these 25 mm samurai figures ?

link

Late 15th century, 16th century or early 17th century?

Thanks

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2024 12:36 p.m. PST

link doesn't work

Eumelus Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2024 1:24 p.m. PST

Link works for me, goes to the Minifigs site for the old "S" range. Paskal, I know you're very devoted to your Minifigs 25mm figures, but I don't think this line was some of their best work.

SAMC2 – Mounted Samurai Archer
Very difficult to tell with the crudity of the sculpture, and I can't tell what the hell is going on with the head, but from the large sode (shoulder plates), lack of sashimono (back banner), and the fact that it is a horse archer rather than a mounted lancer would suggest the figure dates not later than the 15th century.

SAM1 – Samurai with Katana
Again the helmet is oddly shaped and the crude sculpting makes it difficult to say precisely what sort of armor lacing is intended (full lacing kebiki-odoshi? paired lacing sugake-odoshi?), but the figure could be 15th-16th century. However, if those are sode extending down to the elbow then again it would probably be no later than the 15th century (the sode got much smaller, or were dispensed with altogether, in the later periods).

SAM2 – Samurai with Yari
Same comment as above – the very large sode date the figure as pre-Sengoku. A shame, as the spear (yari) was the main battlefield weapon for the samurai in the later period, which this armor is wrong for. And once again the correct shape for the kabuto (helmet) has totally eluded the sculptor.

SAM3 – Ashigaru with Katana
Not a totally terrible ashigaru from the 16th century (which the jingasa war-hat would indicate), but a katana is a very odd weapon to show an ashigaru (peasant warrior) wielding. They were typically issued spears or missile weapons, with a wakizashi short sword as backup.

SAM6 – Ashigaru with Yari
Good to show an ashigaru with a spear, which along with the matchlock musket is their most common armament. But where is his armor? This would appear to be a common peasant, maybe an ikko-ikki rebelious farmer.

SAM8 – Samurai Archer
The large sode and lack of arm protection, as well as the use of the bow, indicate earlier period. The bare feet is confirmed in many battle screens – for retainers and low-ranking samurai only, however (the ones on foot, during this period where horse-archery was the most important combat role). The helmet once again is absurd.

SAM9 – Samurai with Matchlock
It's quite true that some musketmen were samurai and that they weren't all ashigaru. But by the time of musket use (post 1543), it would be very rare to see a bare-legged samurai. The vastly increased importance of dismounted close combat from the mid-14th century onwards put a premium on leg and arm protection, for anyone who could afford it.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2024 7:13 a.m. PST

@ZULUPAUL
It's weird because for me it works…

link

Now if that still doesn't work, you will see them on the Caliver Books website.

@Eumelus
Thanks.
What would you say about the Onin War?
If war-hat jingasa existed during this war?
When did sashimono appear?

As for their Mongolian range, I also find them odd…

link
or
link

As for the figurines from the Chinese range of my dear Minifigs, it is also impossible to know to which dynasty, they supposedly belong ?

TMP link

Eumelus Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2024 10:19 a.m. PST

Paskal:
I would say the samurai in this range (except for the musketman) would all work for the Onin War. The unarmored "ashigaru" could be an armed peasant for that – particularly if you paint the conical hat as a straw hat rather than the lacquered iron jingasa which doesn't really show up until the later Sengoku. Widespread use of the sashimono also begins in the second half of the 16th-century. Before that the armor had more lacing, in lots of colors and patterns, so it was probably easier to tell individual samurai apart.

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2024 12:55 a.m. PST

@Eumelus
As,apart from the SAM3 reference, all the ashigaru in this range are unarmoured, it is a very good idea to paint their jingasa like straw hats, this after having "reworked" them a little.

And would these figurines be valid for periods prior to the Onin War?

If so, which ones?

All ?

hi EEE ya Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2024 9:58 a.m. PST

@Eumelus
I have just realized that in the 1972-1973 MiniFigs catalog, the designation "Ashigaru" does not exist and that is what misled me, just like their jingasa and the arquebusier reference.

Here are their real designations from 1972-1973 and that changes everything :

SAM1 Samurai Warrior with Sword
SAM2 Samurai Warrior with Spear
SAM3 Armored Peasant with Sword
SAM4 Peasant with Sword
SAM5 Peasant with Bow
SAM6 Peasant with Bamboo Spear
SAM7 Peasant with Spear and Sword
SAM8 Samurai Warrior Archer
SAM9 Samurai Warrior with Matchlock
SAMC1 Mounted Samurai Warrior with Spear
SAMC2 Mounted Samurai Warrior Archer
SAMC3 Mounted Samurai Warrior with sword

Also now Now I bet they might even be from before the Onin War !

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