"ship with furled sails, help me understand!" Topic

I just finished building two 28mm sailing ships for my AWI project. I plan on doing the ships with sails furled.

However I'm a bit at a loss as to where the sails would actually be located when they are bundled up or furled or gathered or whatever else one wishes to call it.

Here are the two ships I built, from Firelock Games' Blood and Plunder ranges.

So of course these are showing the models built with the sails raised.

What I'm confused about is, where would the furled sails end up after being furled? What I mean is, would some go "up" to be furled and others go "down"?

Here is a photo of the Charles W. Morgan. It has all its sails furled. But what about all those weird, small sails at the bow, the ones at an angle?

The term "raise the sails" would seem that sails would be exactly as they sound, they'd be raised from the furled position and therefore going upward into the open, sailing position. So the furled sail would then be bundled at the bottom.

But what about the sails on the actual main mast and the other vertical masts? Those appear to be "dropped" or "lowered" when they are being UNfurled. Which means they are bundled and secured onto the horizontal cross beams on the masts.

Tied to the yardarms.
link

@HMS Exeter,

Sorry about that, I fixed it. I inserted the wrong thing. The photo of the Charles W. Morgan model should appear now.

@Camcleod,

Thank you for the link to the photo, but I still don't understand what I'm looking at exactly.

What I mean is, some of the sails on the Charles W. Morgan appear to be tied to the horizontal cross-parts of the masts. Those sails would be LOWERED when being opened, right? But others appear to be tied to the actual rigging itself.

So, when those are unfurled, they use the rigging itself as the thing from which the sail hangs?

What I'm getting at is that I've always envisioned sails on sailing ships being lowered when "opened."

But this video shows a crew raising the sail upward!

link

So I guess what I'm asking is that, depending on the kind of sail it is and the shape of it, it could either raised OR lowered when being opened into its UNfurled position?

Strictly speaking, raising and lowering sail doesn't refer to the actual direction. Raising refers to setting or deploying the sail so it is operational. Lowering means to take in the sail so it is no longer deployed.

In your models (and video) the principal sail is a gaff rig. The sail is attached to the upper spar (gaff) and lower spar (boom). With this rig, one does actually "raise" sail vertically; halyards lift the gaff. link

On a square rig, the primary sails are secured to the yards (the horizontal parts) and "raised" by unfurling them. To the layman, it would be logical to think of this as "lowering", but nautical terminology is a whole world unto itself. Another relevant example is that when a sail is set, the ropes used to secure and control them are called sheets. Not surprisingly, laymen hear "sheets" and think of broad pieces of cloth.

The "weird, small sails at the bow" are staysails. Instead of being attached to a yard, they are attached to the stays, which are the ropes which hold the mast steady fore-and-aft. You'll see the Morgan also has staysails between the fore and main, and the main and mizzen.

@enfant perdus,

Thank you, thank you!! You explained EXACTLY what I needed to know. Awesome.

"Lower the sails" derives from ancient times (think trireme with one sail) where the sail hung from the yard. When the galley went into action the entire yard was lowered to the deck and the sail was furled on the deck as the yard came down. Then the mast was unstepped as well. When the sail and mast were raised but they did not want to move, the sail could be somewhat gathered by deck lines like the Viking ship in this picture:

link

This method was used as late as the days of cogs.

I don't know a lot about sailing ships but I think the for-and-aft furled sails are not tied along the cables between masts. Some poor sailor would somehow have to do that. Pics I find show the sails on pulleys and would be furled at the bottom of the cable and raised upwards. Hope this makes sense. See this pic: link

The luff of the staysail is not tied, it is attached to the stay by hanks. These allow it to slide along the stay.

Book you might want to read is Christopher Nolan's _Eagle Seamanship, A Manual for Square-Rigger Sailing_.

enfant perdus
'The luff of the staysail is not tied, it is attached to the stay by hanks. These allow it to slide along the stay.'

I think I understand.
The question I have – is the model in the OP 3rd pic correct? Shouldn't the staysail be in a heap at the bottom of the stay?

I used to sail an Edwardian gaff rigged schooner in my youth absolutely beautiful boat, slightly more complex arrangement of foresails than image 2. Foresail arrangements a little more like 3rd pic. I don't understand what is going on in pic 3. Foresails (jibs, flying jibs and genoas) are attached to the stays. When not in use taken down and off the stays and placed in the sail locker. For fast 'deployment' they can be tied with rotten cotton and raised, crew then break out the sail by running to the stern holding the sheets. But you wouldn't store a foresail like this – wind could break out the sails.

That is genuinely how to furl staysails on a square-rigged ship. The luff is secured to the stay and the foot is secured to the bowsprit. If properly gasketted, they will not break out. In case of severe whether, extra gaskets can be used. If the captain expected extreme weather, sails could be unbent and yards unswayed. Which leads me to mention that a ship would not typically have all of her staysails bent. In the pic above. you can see that, abaft the foremast, only the main staysail, mizzen staysail, and mizzen top staysail are present and furled. In the attached pic (also the Morgan but a different model), you can see the main top staysail has also been bent.

To me there are two faults with the picture of the Charles W Morgan. Firstly the jibs should be simply a rolled line up the stay [line from foremast to bowsprit] that they are mounted on leaving no roll on the bowsprit; staysails between masts are the same. Secondly the gaff rigged sail on the mizzen [third] mast should be a horizontal roll between the two gaff poles, the top pole having been lowered as the sail is taken in.