"Ukraine is losing" Topic

Okay Rou, anytime you bring up anything critical of Russia I'll just say that's "what aboutism" because other similar stuff may have happened in other countries, sometime. LOL.

By the way does your country have entire brigades of your official military who honor Nazi war criminals? LOL. Does your country declare public holidays for fascists and Nazi collaborators? I guess you didn't open the links I posted if you think the Nazi problem in Ukraine is "just a few crazy guys like every country."

In case you haven't noticed, nothing makes sense anymore, re a trans spokesman for the Ukraine military vs hardcore Nazis in its ranks.

In case it isn't obvious to you, modern totalitarians will ally with any evil movement that's useful or convenient. The other obvious case of this in a warzone (and its happening everywhere) is extreme left LGBTQ activists allying themselves with queer hating Islamo-fascists, Hamas.

Maybe it isn't that weird, a lot of these progressive activist and Marx fans came from socialist beginnings and after all, the Nazi Party was originally the National Socialists.

I feel lucky I've had my head screwed on right my whole life, I've always rejected extremism – I actually said that Nazis and Commies were basically the same in the end, scum.

I'm surprised so many in the west are willing to ignore that our governments are teaming up with actual nazis.

By the way does your country have entire brigades of your official military who honor Nazi war criminals?

Well you could probably find some who would be of that opinion… But anyway IIRC the Azov battalion during its hard-right volunteer days wasn't an official Ukrainian military unit – though it has since been absorbed and rebuilt.

link

It is amazing what an army armed only with shovels can achieve. It will be interesting to see how this is spun.

@ Ned Ludd

I thought you were only going to come here for the "entertainment". What happened to you?

Im in the process.

Of what?

Just saw an interview with former CIA Chief … He said, to paraphrase, "If you think Ukraine is losing, note the Russians have taken over 300,000 KIAs & WIAs." …

Also saw a report that Russia is recruiting in Nepal. They need to make $ for their families. The report said they were being used as cannon fodder in many cases. Which AFAIK is pretty much SOP for the marginally rated Russian Military. The number of Nepalis in the Russian Military is @ 200 – 1500 ? Regardless, many are dying, just like all the Russian Forces.

It appears the Ukrainian Forces have withdrawn from a heavily contested town in the Donbas. I forget the name of the town. To move to more advantages defensive positions. The Russians were taking heavy losses in the battle for the town. Trying to bleed the Ukrainian forces, etc.(?). The Ukraine will most likely let the Russians attack their newer defensive positions. And continue to attrite them.

GEN RET Petraeus in a recent interview, to paraphrase, "The Ukraine needs more FA ammo and more F-16s. Hmmm ? Who were dragging their feet fearing to give all the ammo, weapons, etc. ? That they would need to defeat the Russians. Who still are risk-adverse and fear escalation ?

"If you think Ukraine is losing, note the Russians have taken over 300,000 KIAs & WIAs."-Legion4

Russia could take a million casualties and still win this. I believe it will be won or lost entirely on the amount of aid given to Ukraine.

Yes as I said, the US top leaders were dragging their feet giving all that the Ukraine needed to push the Russians off their land. Again, these leaders are risk adverse and fear escalation. That has been their SOP in almost all occasions. And the enemy knows it … and taking advantage of this.

The aid wont cause it to end just to go on longer. Ukrain is running out of soldiers, they can not be bought or manufactured. The average age of the combat troops is in the mid 40s.

@Ned Ludd

If you wish to rejoin the debate please defend your earlier statement or gracefully honor your commitment to only come here for the entertainment.

Muscovites preparing to mobilize men above 60-70.

Dragon Gunner I am finding entertainment, you are providing it… by thinking you decide what I have to do.

" Muscovites preparing to mobilize men above 60-70".

Of course they are.

It is amazing what an army armed only with shovels can achieve.

An army of the naked and unarmed could beat NATO!

Its just a question of numbers…

"Its just a question of numbers"
This is true to a great extent. But why didn't the ukrain/us take that into account two years ago when they chose to continue the war and turn their back on negotiations? The numbers were always in russias favour.

@ Ned Ludd

I never said you had to do anything! I asked you to defend your statement from earlier, you have refused or cannot defend it. Then I asked you to do what you said you were going to do, you said you were done and you are only here for the entertainment.

I see you are still entertained by your failure to defend your statement and now you entertain yourself with your inability to follow through with what you said you were going to do. On top of that you entertain yourself with straw-man assertions. What other ways you will find to entertain yourself…?

"What other ways you will find to entertain yourself"…?

Dragon Gunner you seem to have developed an obsession regarding me not answering your demands for me to take time to do research for you in regards to the casualties suffered by ukrain. Im not even sure if that is the issue that is causing your distress. Anyway, as I said before if you want to research it do it yourself, its not my job to do research for you.

Something else I wont be doing, in fact would never cross my mind to do is to compere the death and destruction been suffered in ukrain with that time I played an avon hill game and all my tanks got destroyed.

That last point is probably the reason I can not bring myself to be bothered to do anything for you.

@ Ned Ludd

When you make an assertion it is your job to defend it, that is debate 101. It is not my job to refute your statement or do your research for you something you are going out of your way to pretend you do not understand. If you cannot defend your statement or it is something you just made up then all you have to do is admit that. I can assure you I am under no distress but I believe you are…

Your attempt to take the moral high ground and shame me
does not change anything and I am not impressed. I have seen just about every other kind of avoidance tactic out of you. I imagine you will come up with others…

"That last point is probably the reason I can not bring myself to be bothered to do anything for you."-Ned Ludd

You can't be bothered to defend your statements or follow through with what you said you were going to do. You should do those for yourself Ned not for me…

If you are taking your analysis and forming opinions about ukrain from avalon hill board games

"This reminds me of some Avalon Hill Games I have played where I had expensive units on a production track, they finally come on line after many turns and then I am forced to throw them into the front line by circumstances. My opponent promptly chooses to roll on attrition table and I watch them go poof with accomplishing next to nothing".

You need more than help than I can provide you with. That is as much as I can say to you.

@Ned Ludd

More straw-man Ned, I never said I was getting analysis from Avalon Hill Games. You can do better than that!

So you double down on your moral high ground avoidance tactic and add a little twist that I need help? I expected more avoidance out of you and you delivered Ned….

@Ned Ludd, "The average age of the combat troops (of Ukraine) is in the mid 40s."

This is interesting. I have been hearing on podcasts like The Team House from "experts" who have said the current draft policy in Ukraine excludes men under 26 years old or so. Something about preserving the future? However now they are losing so hard they are considering drafting all the young men who haven't fled already?

That factoid might explain the current high average draftee age?

Does anyone have a link to confirm?

I hope this post proves that I don't "like" Russia or Ukraine, all I want is the truth about a war in which my government has very clearly chosen a side under Globalist orders.

The aid wont cause it to end just to go on longer. Ukrain is running out of soldiers, they can not be bought or manufactured.

Interestingly, many former Intel Officers and RET LTCs, COLs, GENs + … Disagree with that assessment.

Hmmm ? Who to believe ? Who to believe ?

Someone who has training & experience on this topic ? E.g. Ret Senior military and intel officers …

Or ?

I think the choice is clear …

Here is a few links on age of soldiers.

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link

link

link

link

"Someone who has training & experience on this topic ? E.g. Ret Senior military and intel officers".

I am in no imaginable way an expert. But these experts also said ukrain was going to take the Crimea and push russia out of donbas during the summer.

Actually raw numbers favor Ukraine. Russia has approx 145 million people. Ukraine 44 million.

So Russia has 3,3 advantage. Russian losses have been greater than 1:3,3.

For every dead Ukrainian russia have lost more than 3,3 dead. In other words, in a war of attrition, a la Verdun russia will run out of people first.

Even Russia acknowledges the fact that they have sustained much higher casualties than Ukraine. That is a fact Russia has accepted. That is why Russia wants to negotiate for peace. They know they will lose in the long run.

Funnily how Russia wants a negotiated peace. I thought Russia was winning. Yet they are the ones who wants to end the war…

Russia will lose, it might take quite some time but in the end Russia will lose. After that they will slide into anarchy and become a failed state. Provinces will break free. Parts will be gobbled up by China, Russia will be like a well used crack wh*re begging for a a dime, willing to do anything for it.

So no, Russia cannot win this thanks to sheer numbers.

"Even Russia acknowledges the fact that they have sustained much higher casualties than Ukraine. That is a fact Russia has accepted. That is why Russia wants to negotiate for peace. They know they will lose in the long run".

I have not seen this, have you got a link?

"I have not seen this, have you got a link?"-Ned Ludd

Ned Ludd can ask for evidence from others but cannot do his own research to defend or prove his statements. How hypocritical…

It is not soledad's responsibility to do research for you. We know how strongly you feel about that you keep chanting that theme…

No, its just you and your demands I will not respond too. You seem to have developed an obsession but its boring now so this will be the last time I interact with you.

Unless you have a link for it?

Strawman Ned I never demanded anything.

You were the one lamenting you could not debate all I am asking you to do is debate and interact like an adult.

You also seem to have an obsession with not being accountable or defending your statements. I am not sure why that is boring for you?

Last night FOX interviewed US Army Ret. GEN Jack Keane. He made it clear, like many other Ret. high-ranking and even the lower ranks, the US/NATO has to support the Ukraine to defeat the Russians. If Putin is not defeated it will only embolden him and the Russians. And possibly the Chinese, Iran etc.

Plus, he said, to paraphrase, we are going to have to make repeated surgical strikes on Iran's military assets. Which will cut off the Houthi's supply of missiles, etc.

As well as the US leadership needs to let the IDF do their jobs and finish off as much of Hamas, etc. as they can. The US leaders it seems are making decisions based on politics during an election year. The IDF is fighting to remove a threat.

We have a new Axis of Evil and they are working together to basically defeat the West. I.e. Russia, China, Iran and North Korea. Pretty much all dictatorships … I will even add islamic terrorists to that list …

I am in no imaginable way an expert. But these experts also said ukrain was going to take the Crimea and push russia out of donbas during the summer.

No you certainly are not. But again, I have a "working" knowledge of the art & science plus the history of warfare.

Also note Dragon knows what he is talking about. We had similar training and experiences in the US Army. Many Vets usually have a better appreciation of most Military topics. For obvious reasons.

However, as we all know or should, a plan only lasts until the first shoots are fired. Then it come down to which side can react most quickly to the ever-changing situation, has the better trained, experienced, motivated, led, Log support etc. units. If one knows history again, not everything goes as planned. But the better military will usually be the winner of the battle.

As we saw the Russians since Day 1 of this conflict has demonstrated they are not a very competent military. Marginal at best, to quote GEN Keane. Their huge losses, about 300,000 KIA & WIA plus the loss of 1/2 their armor with few gains in Ukrainian territory. Again, look at the map …

The US Military has OPLANs for many, many, contingencies. But also know they may have to react to a changing situation on the battlefield.

As Rifle Plt Ldr and later a Mech Co. Cdr, I and my comrades knew how to react to changes. It is an indicator of a well-trained force, etc.

So again, I'll take these high-ranking Ret. Officers words over pretty much anyone else.

As expected, Ukraine is beginning to lose ground as ammo shortages take hold. The US Congress will not approve any aid, is barely able to sustain routine activity in the House. Taking their cue from an outside leader, it appears.

What will the consequences be? I am not talking about how the elections turn out. I am talking about the threat to NATO from the US, and the abandonment of Ukraine to Putin. How is this okay? I have not been convinced by any arguments here in Putin's favor, and if the US falls back into an isolationist role on the world stage, how does that not signal weakness, how does that not have the Axis of Evil celebrating a victory? Most Americans still support Ukraine. They will lose also.

Yes, the lack of some US/NATO ammo, ADA, etc. to the Ukraine is beginning to be telling. The US and NATO can't let Putin "win". But if things continue this way. Ukraine may have to go for a brokered peace settlement. With Russia remaining in occupied lands, they currently hold. E.g. Crimea and the Donbas region.

If that occurs Putin will claim "victory". Regardless of 300,000 KIAs/WIAS, losing about 1/2 their AFVs, and 1/3 of their Navy.

I am talking about the threat to NATO from the US, and the abandonment of Ukraine to Putin. How is this okay?

Well, until fairly recently, the consensus was that Ukraine was in Russia's sphere of influence, and it was impractical for the West to think they could do anything about that.

As for the 'threat' to NATO, there is an argument to be made that the defense of Europe should be paid for by Europe. A lot of Americans feel they've been taken advantage of over the years, especially when some NATO members fail to fund their minimum commitment levels.

Now some are making the 'domino theory' argument that if Ukraine falls, Eastern Europe (the Baltic States, Poland, Moldova) is next. Does Russia really have the capability for that, especially after the losses they've taken?

Having said that, my personal opinion is that it is wiser (and cheaper) to fund weapons for Ukraine, rather than allow Putin to take Ukraine, and then have to put major forces back into NATO. Plus, the US did guarantee Ukrainian sovereignty…

Editor +1

Yes, agreed Bill. I think it has always been wiser to defend against Soviets/Russia over there rather than here. Putin will get his deal now and rebuild. Then we start all over again.

"when some NATO members fail to fund their minimum commitment levels"- Editor

It's not just funding. What do they actually have in their inventory, what was the money spent on? It's creative accounting crap like including highway repair in the defense budget.

link

"…and if the US falls back into an isolationist role on the world stage, how does that not signal weakness, how does that not have the Axis of Evil celebrating a victory?"

Absolutely.
Some here bleat on about the weakness of the present admin. This would be worse.

"As for the 'threat' to NATO, there is an argument to be made that the defense of Europe should be paid for by Europe. A lot of Americans feel they've been taken advantage of over the years, especially when some NATO members fail to fund their minimum commitment levels."

Yes Europe. How about sending the US money to protect OUR borders with Mexico and Canada. Isn't that fair? We've had an invasion of millions and millions of illegal aliens from almost every country in the world, including Russia and China. Once they take over the US, they will role over Canada. Are our checks in the mail? 😉

35th, I know people are sincere about this. But money is not the real issue. We could readily do both NATO and the border as I have said many times. We have been lucky to be able to base troops on our adversary's doorstep all these years. We always saw the value of this until NATO was turned into annother outrage campaign issue.

Now we have dropped the ball, like moths to a flame IMO. Incredible irony considering the messenger's own tax issues, court findings,liabilities. I get it…all a lie. Not for everyone…..

But I am sincere also and agree with others that NATO and Ukraine is money very well spent over time as a deterrent and a critical part of American national security. We just don't agree. There may be corruption, inequities, grey areas. There always are, red or blue. There will always be grievance.

My grievance is dealing Putin a winning hand, weakening NATO. I am not gonna throw out a bunch of links about what Europe's has put up since the invasion. It is not insubstantial, it has been critical. Throwing them under the bus means that we will be weaker against all of our foes. Allies have always mattered.

I'm not adverse to our allies sending us money as a change of pace. Europe, those in the Pacific, Middle East.

When we have those natural and unnatural disasters, hurricane, tornadoes, floods, forest fires, train derailments, the occasional riots.

Money to pay off that pesky 34 plus trillion dollar debt… that keeps going up and up.

Maybe offer to take a few million illegals off our hands (we will pay the shipping 😉).

Free commodities as opposed to cash would also be appreciated. Oil, Gas, base materials, certain foods. Of course gold, silver and platinum are always welcome and appreciated!! 🙂

Maybe we can be a 501c. Maybe use it as a tax deduction. 🤔

Ha! I would second this, but we have already been taking this stuff from others for decades! It is a point of national pride that we never accept national gifts. But we do a whole lot of business all over. And we are not about to become a non-profit..that goes against everything we believe!

5% of the worlds population using 40% of the worlds resources, I think. The richest nation on earth by quite a stretch. We are indeed foolish spenders – our consumer goods spending dwarfs everyone else's.

But your point is taken.it seems like it's always us picking up the tab. In fact we are not always the top givers, but always near the top.l The lowest per capita givers includes most of Western Europe, except theUK. So there ya go,the very people we have been complaining about. 😉

But it's like a family in my mind, we are the rich uncle, more than a few deadbeat relatives.

Some here bleat on about the weakness of the present admin.

Ah … Yes … for good reasons …