"Germany’s new rifle ‘inaccurate in battle’" Topic

The German army's new assault rifle is not accurate enough and cannot be relied upon to work properly in battle, according to a classified report…"Current testing by the army in laboratory conditions shows that the weapon doesn't meet army standards when loaded with combat ammunition," said the review, which was first revealed by Der Spiegel news magazine.

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Why don't they just put the MP44 back into production? Those worked pretty well…

Well, that's disconcerting.

No doubt, if you look at the general state of the German armed forces, it can't get any worse.
Fortunately, the Russians are in an even worse state and we can hide behind the Poles while the Ukrainians distract them.
And the French cover our backs…

…
Of course, the latter was just a joke.

"Of course, the latter was just a joke."

Good one Arjuna!!

The Germans used to make many good weapons systems. Even bought and used by other militaries.

Arjuna +1

Sadly, the Germans are not one of the better forces in NATO currently. When NATO may need much improved forces just in case.

So, was it incompetence or politics and graft that put the new rifle into production?

"The Germans used to make many good weapons systems. Even bought and used by other militaries."-Legion4

Almost everything we have is based on original German designs and engineering. I hope Germany gets back in the game we need them.

"So, was it incompetence or politics and graft that put the new rifle into production?"

More like an over-complicated procurement process along with the teething problems one gets when a new weapons system goes into mass production – look at the earliest models of the AR-15 / M-16, SA-80, etc. This is of course assuming these are being manufactured at scale at this point. force-feeding development never helps either

Do we know if this is still in development stages or production? I'm having trouble signing up for my free trial period for the article

Dragon +1

For those having trouble:

** The Bundeswehr was forced to lower testing standards for its G95A1 after it failed to pass trials using military-standard ammunition, said the report, which was sent to the Bundestag by Germany's national audit office.

"Current testing by the army in laboratory conditions shows that the weapon doesn't meet army standards when loaded with combat ammunition," said the review, which was first revealed by Der Spiegel news magazine.

"The army requires an assault rifle that is sufficiently accurate under real conditions with its combat ammunition," the report said. The defence ministry, it added, "can no longer ensure this… due to a modified contract with the weapon manufacturer".

The army's procurement department allowed gunmaker Heckler & Koch to test the weapon using civilian ammunition, rather than the same cartridges used by the army.

Testing was also allowed to take place at room temperature rather than at extreme temperatures.

The rifle has been ordered as a replacement for the G36, which was also built by Heckler & Koch and became mired in scandal during its service life.

The G36 extensively utilises plastic in its construction, but German troops serving in Afghanistan began complaining that their weapons would lose accuracy after sustained firing.

The defence ministry's investigation found that, during shooting, a plastic channel that the barrel sits in would heat up and become soft, leaving it out of alignment.

In 2015, a Bundeswehr survey found that only 8 per cent of German soldiers trusted their weapons, and Ursula von der Leyen, then defence minister, ditched the G36.

Germany's army of 180,000 soldiers was supposed to start receiving their new weapon next year.

The country's latest small arms problems come as it struggles to re-equip an army that the defence minister has admitted is ill-prepared for war.

Concerns over the new weapon's accuracy are not shared among the country's troops, Der Spiegel reported.

Germany's elite KSK troops are equipped with the G95A1 and have had no complaints, the magazine reported.

Boris Pistorius, Germany's defence minister who has been in office for a year, has pledged to make the army "war fit" after reports emerged that it only had enough ammunition to fight a war for two days.

However, his attempts to reshape a defence force blighted by sclerotic bureaucracy and outdated equipment have so far failed to produce major results.**

"And the French cover our backs…" Despite their bleating, the French have had our backs far more than most people realize (and more so than most of our allies) over the last few decades. They don't do stupid (i.e. invade Iraq in 2003) and will make decisions for themselves, but they are willing to commit forces and take casualties.

Sketchy German weapon systems. Ever own a Mercedes? Beautiful when they work, but require a lot of expensive maintenance and pushed a bit too close to edge of engineering.

The Bundeswehr is in a bad place for many reasons. I was doing some research a few years ago and had to laugh when I realized the Poles had more operational Leopard IIs than the Bundeswehr. Germans are probably lucky the Poles fear the Russians more than the Germans. :)

pjm

Indirectly relatedly, the British Army is now one-quarter of the size it was in 1990 (< 79,000 versus 300,000). There must come a stage at which it is too small to work,
at least in the intended manner.

As wargamers who have tried to scale down historical armies for the tabletop, we've probably all encountered the situation where you can't have any heavy cavalry in your Waterloo army, or any Tigers in your Panzer force, because the head count limit doesn't justify it. At 80,000 men and falling the U of K must be getting close to the point where we can't have an armoured brigade because we just can't. The Royal Navy is already at the point where it can't operate the carriers it has because there is no money for aircraft, escorts or support vessels. I really don't know where this ends.

Yes, I have seen many NATO Forces have been drastically downsized. E.g. the UK, Germany, etc. I know a modern well equipped and trained force cost $. USD I'm afraid this is causing many NATO members to ignore their own defense capabilities.

However, if history teaches us anything, sooner or later another conflict will breakout. And some of these NATO nations will be involved.

We see how many NATO and other nations have given equipment to Ukraine. Some could only send a small amount. As they couldn't afford to take more away from their current downsized forces. For their own defenses …

With the severe attrition of the Russians forces by the Ukrainians. And their poorly trained forces. Russia is not a threat … for now … but what about the future, e.g. 10 years from now ?

But the PRC/CCP is building large amounts of military assets. Looks like they are on a war footing. Now we know never fight a war with China on their own lands. For obvious reasons. But the West and some of our allies in the PTO. May be meeting the Chicoms outside of their mainland. E.g. Taiwan.

Too much $ wasted by many nations' Gov'ts on other priorities than their own defense. As well as they may have to act in a coalition if war comes. As in the recent past …

I would think that with as many years of modern small arms development that countries like Germany have, problems like this wouldn't happen. Maybe I should say that they shouldn't happen. Definitely something to be said for tried and true platforms.

Why it may already be too late for the West to avoid war – On Telegraph.co.uk

Presumably there is graft involved here. Why actually does Germany need to design new rifles or machine guns? What's so functionally wrong with Armalites and MG42s that they require replacement by modern designs that don't work properly?

I'm guessing it was considered desirable by German politicians to funnel funds that used to be spent on the military to social programs. "Peace dividend" and all. That works as long as you have the US keeping the Russians at bay, not so great once the US no longer considers it a priority.

Maybe as the US phases out the M4 rifle series, instead of scrapping them, they could send them to the Germans? That and enough ammo to fight more than a few days. Win-win. The Germans get free stuff, and we get to have more influence on them because we supply their gear. :)

Germany appears exceedingly reluctant to spend money of defence though. It counts autobahn construction and maintenance as defence spending, for example, on the basis that the roads might be used in a war. Essentially they use the military budget to pay for civil construction and call it defence.

It thus very odd that they gratuitously buy new rifles. If the old ones didn't work I'm sure we'd know about it, so the assumption tends to be that replacing them must be for reasons of graft. Do the defence companies also make washing machines that are cheaper for German households because the makers earn so much money making rifles that needn't work? Do the politicians whose department buys the rifles then get jobs on the board of the winning bidder? Does someone get to buy the old rifles for nothing and sell them in Gaza for $50 USD per?

There must be something like this going on.

It counts autobahn construction and maintenance as defence spending

Which is not a bad idea, if it is not used as a substitute for making the armed forces that are supposed to ride on them fit again.
Did you know the US Interstate Highway System was inspired by the German 'Autobahnen'?
Dwight Eisenhower was impressed by them.
I assume he knew firsthand what a tanker wants.
Can't think of a better example of a win-win, dual-use military/civil infrastructure technology.
The Interstate Highway System – On History.com

Same with the German Railroad networks and bridges whose condition has been rather neglected over the last 30 years.

US does not count veterns spending as defenece spending.

not count veterns spending as defenece spending.

No it is a separate fund …

the US Interstate Highway System was inspired by the German 'Autobahnen'?

And yes, Ike saw how efficient, etc. the Autobahn was. So he wanted to build a version in the US. Modern roads going all over the US. For not only defense but commerce as well.