"Understanding Brigade Fire & Fury QRS in 6mm" Topic

Hi

Im trying to decide how to get started with BFF. I dont have the rules so what I'm asking my be clear as day once I get them.
I have searched to the best of my ability for answer but not finding a definite answer.

When i look at 6mm QRS on the BFF website it seems to be reduced to 75% of the 15mm QRS.

Im trying to figure out that the actual scale is in the 6mm QRS.

Is it 1" = 80yards?
1 miniature is 200 men? Maybe the actual question about men is, how many men does a base represent for the 6mm QRS?
Is the based scaled as well to use the 6mm QRS so that bases scaled as well e.g. infantry bases are 3/4" wide and 9/16"?

Thanks in advance.

A stand represents 150/200 men. The number of figures on the stand is immaterial.

When the 1 stand:200 men scale is used in 15mm, 1" is supposed to represent 60 yards. Therefore using this 6mm adaptation, 1" would represent 80 yards (as you have calculated correctly). That's a scale that should allow all but the very largest of battles to fit on a table that a person with normal-sized arms can reach the center of.

For 15mm scale, BFF can use either 1 stand equals 150 men/6 guns and 1" equals 45 yards, or 1 stand equals 200men/8 guns and 1" equals 60 yards. It says it can be played in 10mm by reducing dimensions by 50%. So, for 6 mm, I'd say 1" equals about 80 yards, with an infantry stand .25". Or you could just use 15mm distances and be done with it. The author is active on the website, fireandfurygames.com, and the rules forum may already have an answer for you.

While this may be big home-brewed, when we do 6mm ACW with BF&F we have the same base size but:
- use 9 infantry per stand
- use 6 cavalry per stand
- use 4 gunners per artillery piece
- have commanders on a round base

We also use cm instead of inches

Works well for us

Ignore the minis size. Instead, look at your bases. If you use the same base size as 15mm but just put more minis on, nothing changes.

I *never* change measurements for minis. I only adjust of I have a small table or use smaller bases.

The standard BFF ground scales (1" = 45 yards for 150 scale, 1" = 60 yards for 200 scale) and base sizes (1" x 7/8" for infantry stands) are for when you are using 10mm or 15mm figures.

The reductions on the 6mm QRF are if you wish to use 6mm figures and have the same number of figures on each base as 15mm (3 to 4 figures on an infantry stand). In that situation, they recommend you reduce both base sizes and ground scale measurements by 75%

So the 1" = 45 yards for 150 scale (15mm) becomes 8" = 45 yards for 150 scale (6mm) and an infantry stand is 0.75" wide.

There is nothing to stop you using the 15mm base sizes and ground scale measurements, and putting more 6mm figures on the base.

So long as base sizing is consistent for all armies on the tabletop, there should be no issue.

When I first started BFF, for infantry stands I based 2 strips of Heroics and Ros (10 figures) on 15mm base sizes. I have since switched to Adler's 6mm figures, and I base 5 figures in a single rank on 15mm base sizes. All groudnd scale measurements (movement distance, firing) use the 15mm QRS.

I would strongly recommend checking out the forum on the publisher's website.

F&F is not a precise system. All distances are genericized, rounded, and abstracted to ease play. You can use any of the QRSes on the support site for any scale. I'm with Extra Crispy on this: I would personally just use the default (15mm scale) QRS for any scale miniatures from 6mm to 20mm, and adjust the number of figures on each base until it looks best. The miniatures in F&F are decorations, not "real".

I concur the "6mm" QRS seems to expect 3/4" wide stands. Absent any explanation from it's author, I assume this is just to save the miniaturist some figures. As pointed out above, it also gets you extra maneuver room (smaller units, shorter moves, shorter shooting), which is important for those who have limited playing space, or just want really sprawling battles.

I use the 6mm ranges for my 15mm variant I call "Grand Fire and Fury". It is more in line with the scale of the old On to Richmond rules.

1" = 80 yards, 1 stand now represents 300 men, one turn is 40/45 minutes.

I still use the move rates for the 15mm scale and can now fight all the battles on a 6ft X 9ft (tennis) table using fewer stands per brigade, fewer turns per game and still have the feel of the original game.

Only a few other rule changes were needed to make this work and play the large battles in shorter time with fewer miniatures.

Kim

In 6mm, we use 20mm x 20mm bases. They still represent the same number of troops as per the standard rules. As we are operating at 4/5s scale, we read each 1" as 2cm. It makes a big difference if you are doing he big battles.

Thanks for the replies. The late reply is due to a 3 day new user posting limitation.

I have a very large 15mm ACW collection for JRIII. Moving to a brigade based game is all about playing divisions and corps sized games. Fitting these large games on a table where we can reach the middle is the primary reason to move to 6mm. So using 6mm and keeping the 15mm ranges does not seem to fit what i'm are looking for. Thanks for the idea.

If i understand the feedback correctly i can just scale all bases to 75% and then 1" is 80yards. Every thing else is pr. the 200 scale, 1 stand of infantry or cavalry is about 200men and 1 stand of artillery is 6 guns. The 6mm QRS has all ranges set for me.
For infantry that gives a frontage of about 3/4" or 60 yards which is pretty close to the historic base (Winfield Scott) that i have been able to find.

Is there any glaring problems in that conclusion?

@KimRYoung:
Does the "Grand Fire and Fury" cause any changes shooting effectiveness tables?

@Consul Paulus i will try the forum on fireandfury.com, it does seem to left to slowly rot away.

Now i just need to order a ton of 6mm figures and get painting.

Thanks

The 150 and 200 scales refer to two factors:

– The number of men or guns each stands represents – 150 scale means a stand represents 150 infantry or cavalry or 6 guns. 200 scale means a stand represents 200 infantry or cavalry or 8 guns
– What 1" represents for the ground scale when using 15mm figures. At 150 scale, 1" represents 45 yeards. At 200 scale 1" represents 60 yards.

So if you scale your bases to a larger or smaller figure than the 1" width for 15mm, you should adjust the measure that represents 45 or 60 yards to match.

The Brigade Fire and Fury Support page has 4 QRS sheets for 2mm, 6mm, 15mm and 25mm that reflect this approach. If you view and compare these, it shows that:

– The maximum range for a rifled musket goes from 4" (2mm) to 6" (6mm) to 8" (15mm) to 12" for 25mm
– The command radius referenced in the Die Roll Modifiers increases from 6" (2mm) to 18" (25mm)

So the 1" measure for 15mm figures is being scaled up and down as the figure scale increases and decreases. A battle that would occupy a 6' by 4' table using 15mm figures could be fitted on a 3' by 2' table using 2mm figures where the stands are 50% of the 15mm size.

If you view the maps accompanying the scenarios, the grid squares are scaled in the same way.

The Fire and Fury forum is active – it is just that the most recent activity has been in boards other than Brigade Fire and Fury (Regimental Fire and Fury and Battlefront).

@KimRYoung:
Does the "Grand Fire and Fury" cause any changes shooting effectiveness tables?

Nope, can use the tables just as the original. Because turns are 45 minutes now they are 50% greater amount of time just as each stand is now 50% more men, so the casualty loss is proportional to the time scale.

Also I stated That 6X9 table works, but that is for the original game. 5ftX 6/8ft will work for every scenario. Where a grid is 12X12 inches, use 10 X 10 inches and the scale is still proportional.

Kim

@Consul Paulus
Thanks for the clarifications.

@KimRYoung
Ahh yes. Thanks clearing that up.

Thanks to everyone for helping me on the way.