"In defence of BIG Battles" Topic

"I play plenty of Skirmish games with my friends, but as a group, we also enjoy big battle games. Look in any wargames magazine and you could be forgiven for thinking that every new set of rules is for skirmish wargaming. Certainly, there are plenty of excellent skirmish rules out there but I think it would be a sad day indeed if BIG battles were to fall from our repertoire…"

See here

link

Armand

I find myself lamenting the current trend in gaming, leaning towards skirmish-style gameplay, while big battle games seem to have been left behind. Within my gaming group, we often engage in skirmish-type games such as Bolt Action, Rebels & Patriots, Songs of Whatever, and various ancient skirmish rules. While these games are enjoyable, they deviate from the reason I initially joined this hobby.

My passion lies in recreating significant historical battles – the large regimental and battalion games that dominated our miniature-gaming experiences in the early 80s. Unfortunately, I've observed a shift in preferences within my group, and I find myself almost exclusively organizing and running these larger-scale historical battles.

Agreed Old Contemptible – I find myself in a similar situation for day to day gaming

I read a transcript of the vid (can't anyone write anymore?), and couldn't find the "defence" part. Which is okay, since I couldn't find what was "attacking" big battles.

Most Big Battles that I see are actually skirmish battles anyway. If I have 2000 figures on the board but my granularity of control only allows me eight or ten orders, well …

We play the Battle of Puebla every year an OXI Day nearly so, but we have a couple dozen figures each side. This is still more than the typical number of real orders per side per turn. The extra figures allow you to represent something like a wedge, a disorganized line, or an entrapment at a reasonable granularity level. With 50 men representing a 50 man front, do you really have rules that accommodate 100's of different states they can end up doing a 45 degree oblique? or do you have two or three outcomes that could be represented with a few figures?

Having fewer figures on the board speeds up the game (by which I mean decreases "dead time" between active participation by the players, not shorter clock time) and lets us play a large area battle like Puebla (with 28mm) or OXI (with 15mm) on a dinner table and still have room for dice, drinks, and snax.

I also take a little umbrage (just a bit, not too much) at the implication that skirmishes are not "significant". There are hundreds (if not thousands) of small unit actions like the Blue House Raid or the attempt to free Ghaddafi that had pivotal results and significant aftermath.

I play AD&D RPG games -- the ultimate skirmish game, IMO. We use figures and terrain, so, Yes, Virginia, it is considered a, "Miniatures Game."

I also play a few mass battles miniatures games, but not enough for my desires. If I could play more mass battles games, I would be ecstatic! I try to run the largest games I can, but they are too few, and too far between.

My last mass battles fantasy game was February of 2022: it fielded 1,000+ 28mm miniatures, being pushed by 10 players, while I ref'ed. It was a blast -- not just for me, but also for the 10 players. We all enjoyed ourselves, tremendously.

Around 2015, I ran/ref'ed a 54mm Army Men game, on tables that spanned 12 feet by 30 feet. We had around five players, the first day, but only two the second day. We had around 400 Infantry figures, and around 40 vehicles (DUKS, Jeeps, Humvees, Tanks, and Deuce-And-A-Half Trucks). Not historical, in any way, but what a good time!!!

I always prefer going BIG, whenever possible -- the bigger, the better, for me. Cheers!

Big is better but harder, these days , to pull off. Our little group has the advantage of being able to leave a game set up for several weekends but the smaller scale battles still creep in.

+1 OC. Long live the large wargame that endeavors to simulate the battlefield!

How does the large wargame simulate the battlefield any better?

Well, I admit, there is the point that visually, you get the viewpoint of a Napoleonic commander in a helicopter 500' above the battlefield …

I've played in some Big games and they are fun but like DM'ing an RPG: The game is fun as long as you aren't the one doing the grunt work. If I had 1000s of minis (for one force), sure I'd be all for huge games. Not having those available, ya I'll see you in about 5 years when I get enough done and we can set up a big game. On top of that who has the space? Some do but I have an 8x6 and it's going to be packed, and people complain about the FoW parking lots. Top if off with varying interests and now the painting queue has other things in line not just one side of one army. In my current limitations (room and time) if I want 1000s of figures on a table I'll do 6mm.

Thanks!

Armand

It is, of course, perfectly possible to wargame big battles without using enormous numbers of miniatures, but using one base to represent a brigade or even a corps (see the Generalship Game in Paddy Griffith's Napoleonic Wargaming For Fun for an example of the latter) just as it is possible to wargame small engagements using a lower man:figure ratio and representing a battalion, for example, by a hundred figures instead of fifteen or twenty. Both of these are perfectly valid ways of wargaming.

Myself and my gaming group has reserved 28mm for the skirmish-level type games and to satisfy the itch for big battles we have turned to using either 6 or 10mm figures.
Trying to do a "big battle" in 28mm is not only expensive and time-consuming to paint, but the terrain needed and the space required to play on, makes it impractical for most players. You can do a quite large battle in 6 or 10mm on a 6x4 or 8x4 table.

My wargames are really big… thousand of troops from each side … in 1/72….

But only one game per year… during more or less a month…

Armand

Someone said they only had an 8 x 6 table. I could play a big battle with 15mm figures, four to a base. I only do 28mm for conflicts that have smaller battles like the AWI and yes for skirmish gaming. I use 15mm for ACW, NAP, and FPW. because there were huge battles in those periods and those are the ones I like to do. If you want to do the big historical battles don't choose 28mm, 40mm, and 54mm to do them in.

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I recently put 1K 28mm figures on a table. TMP link It took the better part of a 3x3 area and an hour and a half. My 15mm are on 5/8" bases, so that would be just under 3 sq ft, probably the same time factor. A stand of 20 or so in 8mm or less seems manageable, but it's still 50 stands. I'm used to getting a couple dozen rounds (all sides play) in a 2 our game.

They looks great!….

Armand