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"The problem with regimental guns" Topic


19 Posts

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737 hits since 13 Jan 2024
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2024 1:22 p.m. PST

Most rule sets kind of are embarrassed by them & prefer not to talk about them much eg don't represent them, just add a firing dice to simulate their presence.

I have a pile of small calibre cannon, each with 2 crew. I'd like most of my P&S regiments to get one. I *think* I'd base them on the standard 60x30mm base (all musketeers, pikemen & command are so based) & stick them out in front of the regiment once deployed?

Any comments, criticisms & fresh ideas welcome.

William Warner13 Jan 2024 5:40 p.m. PST

Why not base them on a smaller base? After all they only represent one or two guns.

KeepYourPowderDry14 Jan 2024 4:31 a.m. PST

Sorry Ochoin, if I could piggy back onto your thread, regimental guns during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms… I've only come across one contemporary reference to a regiment having attached artillery (Hertfordshire Black Auxiliaries had 2 drakes). Can anyone point me in the direction of other contemporary references?

And galloper guns… never found any references to them until late C17th/early C18th, yet lots of manufacturers have
them in their ranges (admittedly older
ranges)

Are regimental guns, and galloper guns a Civil War Wargamer fact™, with little relationship with fact? (I sense a blog post coming on)

Sorry Ochoin, I digress.

Timbo W14 Jan 2024 5:06 a.m. PST

Hi Mike, iirc the idea of 'galloper guns' comes from the Royalists at Roundway Down. A good place to start anyway!

KeepYourPowderDry14 Jan 2024 6:24 a.m. PST

Thanks Tim

42flanker14 Jan 2024 6:38 a.m. PST

Following.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP14 Jan 2024 12:13 p.m. PST

Well, that looks like 'problem solved'.

Personal logo Dye4minis Supporting Member of TMP14 Jan 2024 3:07 p.m. PST

We used to play with one stand in the unit being the regimental guns in lieu of another infantry stand. First stand of casualties would be the gun stand. Gave us the looks and denoted which regiments had them yet did not overwhelm gameplay.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP15 Jan 2024 10:13 a.m. PST

I have them for my TYW armies but not the TK forces. There is a galloper to follow Rupert around, just for fun.

KeepYourPowderDry16 Jan 2024 2:01 p.m. PST

My apologies Ochoin, if you want some have some.

I was just wondering if there is any basis for them. I've only ever seen one reference (mentioned above), where the regiment was more of a mini-army than a 'proper' regiment. They also had a troop of horse in their regiment.

I think it was the Hertfordshire orange regiment of auxiliaries that had troops of horse, scouts and dragoons as well as foot.

Mollinary18 Jan 2024 7:25 a.m. PST

According to Peter Young's Edgehill, page 92, Joshua Moone, Colonel John Belasyse's secretary, states: "before every body of foot we placed two pieces of cannon". These seem likely to be at least 10 of the light fawcons, fawconnets, and rabonnets known to be with the army, with weight of shot from 3/4 to 2 1/2 pds..

KeepYourPowderDry18 Jan 2024 1:46 p.m. PST

Tips hat. Thanks Mollinary. I shall investigate.

Although I believe that they were from the train of artillery, rather than 'regimental guns'. Or rather they were the fledgling train of artillery

Mollinary18 Jan 2024 2:12 p.m. PST

KYPD. I am sure you are right, but from the wargamers point of view, is this a distinction without a difference? I think the small guns of less than 3pds weight would have been deployed with the foot (or even in some cases, with the cavalry) rather than as batteries. There is another reference in Young's Edgehill to 3 Parliamentary guns being deployed in support of the cavalry.

KeepYourPowderDry18 Jan 2024 3:04 p.m. PST

It's a wee while since I read Young's Edgehill, I shall try and fit a re-read it in (work is a tad hectic at the moment).

If memory serves me right, I came away with the impression that both sides were very keen, but relatively disorganised.

Distinction without a difference, possibly, probably. My pedantry? Possibly. It's more the Wargamer Fact™ that such a thing as regimental guns (owned, managed by the regiment) existed, when it appears, by the lack of evidence, that they didn't. The Train of Artillery deployment, of light pieces supporting individual units, with heavier pieces in batteries, is a different matter.

Same with galloper guns; it is strongly suggestive that light pieces supporting horse are called gallopers. But they were not the galloper guns of the mid/late C18th that so many older ranges of figures have (where the gun carriage is a cart/gun carriage hybrid)

Mollinary18 Jan 2024 3:11 p.m. PST

KYPD. I think we are in violent agreement!

KeepYourPowderDry18 Jan 2024 3:35 p.m. PST

Steady now!

DBS30322 Jan 2024 6:35 p.m. PST

If memory serves, the three pieces mentioned with the Parliamentary cavalry at Edgehill were on the left with Ramsay's cavalry, but no suggestion whatsoever that they were "gallopers" or "horse artillery", rather just three guns of unspecified size deployed amongst the hedges with cavalry and commanded musketeers that received Rupert's charge at the halt. I think there was some reference in Royalist horse memoirs of moving at pace to limit exposure to the guns, but am now stretching memory!

The closest other reference might be to the two very small guns that I think Hertford is supposed to have shipped down to the West Country in 1642 from one of his residences, but the point was not that they were conceived as regimental guns, but were so small that they probably ended up in that sort of role given they represented the entirety of Royalist artillery in the area…

takeda33323 Jan 2024 12:35 a.m. PST

The light guns with Gustavs horse at Lutzen have been suggested came from 2d line inf. brigades. How true? Idk

ocollens06 Feb 2024 8:14 a.m. PST

Didn't the Covenanters have something like 80 'frames' in the First Civil War? There are at least 3 models in 28mm from different manufacturers guessing how they might have looked. The discussion above seems to totally ignore these.

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