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"Re-organising my Pike & Shot regiments" Topic

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Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP09 Jan 2024 5:01 a.m. PST

I have 2 ECW armies Royalist English & Covenanter.

Although I now use 'Victory Without Quarter', they are based for the 'Field of Glory' rules. eg all on 60mm x 30mm bases. Specifically, 4 musketeer bases with 3 figures on each, a pike base with 4 figures & a command base (officers, musicians & ensigns with flags) also with 4 figures.

This works for a game but looks, IMO, a bit ordinary. So, just for the look of the thing, I acquired enough pikemen to add a 4 figure pike base to each of my 15 P&S regiments. I've begun to paint these 60 extra figures.

My question is how to organise them. Clearly the 4 musketeer bases on the flanks & the pike in the middle but should the command stand go in front of the pikes, behind them or, perhaps with a pike in front & behind?

None of this will matter in game terms but for me, the 'Look' is important.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP09 Jan 2024 5:39 a.m. PST

I'm putting drum, officer and flag with a pike man on one base. Base in front rank.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP09 Jan 2024 7:42 a.m. PST

If the regiment is marching, command stand at the head of the column. Formed to give battle, command stand in the middle of the pikes.

KeepYourPowderDry09 Jan 2024 10:35 a.m. PST

You are absolutely right, the look is very important.

I solved the problem by basing all my figures in groups of 4, Halberdiers are based singularly on the same sized base. The whole regiment then fit into a movement tray. This way I can simply move the command strip from front to back, and vice versa. Here's my LTB blue regiment.


And yes I do know that my musketeers should be the same depth as my pike block, it's something I am 'thinking' about. I could remove the blank base and replace it with another strip of muskets if I so wished

Stoppage09 Jan 2024 4:09 p.m. PST

my musketeers should be the same depth as my pike block

Not necessarily…

Naval & Military Press Venns Military and Maritime Discipline 1672 (sale price GBP10.39 ex GBP28.00)

…the six-rank deep and six-feet apart business is for marching, manouevring, and forming up.

…close combat for pike:

Rear three soldiers in a file "double the files" by marching to front means three-ranks deep and three-feet apart.

…close combat for musketeers double files per above

Or extend the front "by the entire" rear three ranks march to outer flank three-ranks deep and still six-feet apart.

… so having different depths for the pike block and the musket divisions is acceptable.

KeepYourPowderDry10 Jan 2024 12:02 p.m. PST

A wee while since I opened my copy of Venn… thanks for prodding me to get it out again

Stoppage11 Jan 2024 8:51 a.m. PST

Actually I ordered it after you showed a picture on your ECW Blog post:

KYPD – A Regiment of Foot

KeepYourPowderDry11 Jan 2024 12:00 p.m. PST

Oh my goodness, not somebody else's bank manager I owe an apology to!

I think I need to put a disclaimer on the blog: I can't be held responsible for any book, figure purchases

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP11 Jan 2024 7:28 p.m. PST

You are only responsible for stimulating interest and self-education!

BillyNM11 Jan 2024 11:58 p.m. PST

Rather than using a muster of the LTB for numbers and a regiment-based formation it is surely better to use, with circumspection, the estimated number of foot in a battle and their deployment into a number of formations. This will typically give smaller formations that are undoubtedly more manageable. Also, is their evidence that the contents of the 1672 drill book date back to the period in question? Only asking because I don't know.

Stoppage12 Jan 2024 8:12 a.m. PST

Interesting diagrams here:

Dominic Winter ELTON Compleat Body of the Art Military 1650

If I was putting my ECW armies together again then I'd probably organise them as battalions representing either A. half-regiments, or B. admixture of regiments.

From Page 165 text:
- First battalion company flags from: Col, Cap2, Cap5, Cap6, Maj, and Cap1
- Second battalion company flags from: Cap4, Cap7, Lt col, Cap3
- Admixed battalions from: Col, Lt col, Maj, Cap1.

Page 141 illustrates this schema:
- m-p-m-m-p-m

Page 151:
Central pike block with four corners – each of three sections of 30 muskets, preceded by some skirmisher (30 x2), with small musket reserve (30 x2)

Stoppage12 Jan 2024 8:16 a.m. PST

Evidence that book published in 1672 applies to 30 years earlier? Sorry – haven't got a clue, but:

Not too much difference between my 1980s infantry training manual and my 1944 infantry training manual – excepting self-loading rifles versus bolt, and GPMG in light-role rather than LMG, inclusion of Milan, Gustav, and 66mm versus bazooka and sticky bombs(!)

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