"Russian Hussar Cartridge Belt metal fittings" Topic

I am working on some Russian Alexandria Hussars(18mm AB Figures 1812) and trying to be as accurate as a I can with the uniforms. I am trying to find out if the metal fittings (buckle, cross piece, and end piece) on the Hussars red leather cartridge belts are brass or iron metal.

Mark Conrad's translated VISKOVATOV Vol 8 – red Russian leather and a similar strap passed through two brass rings fastened to the sides with an iron ramrod. No mention of the buckle, cross piece, and end piece.

Vol 11 – just says the cartridge pouch of red Russian leather, with the same kind of strap and with an iron ramrod. No mention of the buckle, cross piece, and end piece. It does say the whitened Deerskin shoulder belt (belt carbine is attached to) had a brass buckle, cross piece, and end piece, and iron hook.

Osprey MMA 189 Russia Army of the Napoleonic Wars (2): Cavalry 1799-1814, page 14, indicates iron fittings.

I have looked at many painted figures by various professional painters and it is still unclear. I have seen photos of re-enactors of this unit and I see both brass and iron fittings.

I have not be able to find any information/photos on surviving examples in museums. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

I do have to correct myself. The Osprey book is talking about the white shoulder belt not the red Russian leather cartridge belt. My apologies.

A point I think about on other accouterments is brass would just need polishing to stay shiny if wanted, same with copper. Steel will rust if not painted.

link
Interesting but don't see what your looking for

Hello 14Bore. Thank you for sending the link. Good video and it is informative. In all my searches, YouTube videos never showed up. At 4:34, a nice view of the Hussar re-enactor is holding the Russian red leather cartridge pouch and belt. Cannot see the buckle, cross piece, and end piece of the belt. Still searching.

The Alexandrian hussars were prescribed white metal parts.

I think this tablet will be useful for your work, although the details of the frog are not visible here:

And also keep in mind that "Russian red leather (yuft)" is not red, but rather red-brown. And Russian "white yuft" is not white, but rather beige.

link

Very interesting as Viskovatov Volume 8 says:

"At the beginning of EMPEROR PAUL I's reign all Army Hussar regiments received uniforms of almost exactly the same pattern and style as those of the Gatchina hussars. Uniform items, arms, and accouterments prescribed for a private hussar comprised: …………..

Sword belt [portupeya] — also of red Russian leather; 3/4 vershok [1-3/8 inches] wide, with a brass hook for fastening, and with three brass rings for fitting the straps: two holding the saber and three the sabertache (117)."

No subsequent changes in metal is mentioned for any Hussar regiment in the next Volume…..

Illustration from Viskovatov, depicting officers of the Grodno and Lubensky hussar regiments for 1809-1811 (volume 11).

Officer's tashka of the Grodno Hussar Regiment 1812 (unregulated). Museum specimen. From the book "Glinka V.M. – Russian military costume of the 18th – early 20th centuries." Leningrad 1988.

In general, Viskovatov's information should be treated with caution. His information is based on incomplete information, often based on instructions that changed due to certain circumstances and were not recorded by Viskovatov. Some of the official documents were either lost or were out of Viskovatov's sight for various reasons. There are already a lot of inconsistencies identified.

Tashka, in reality, clearly belongs to another regiment – Sumy, Belorussky or Izyumsky (by the way, incorrect museum attribution, unfortunately, is not at all uncommon). But in any case, the metal used is white.

impressive images and information, thank you very much

Sorry for getting back to this so late but I have been under the weather and just getting back to feeling somewhat normal. Whatever normal is. Caprum2 Thank you for sharing the information and the photograph of the Sabretache/tashka (Russian name). I have been searching the internet for surviving examples of these. I know there has to be photos out there. I may not be entering the correct words. Again thank you

I checked the very valuable second volume of "Russki Wonne Kostjum – Armija Aleksandra I – Kavalerija", published by the Russian editor Russkie Witjaz" in 2014 and made photos of the published sabretaches and uniform images referring to the Aleksander hussars.

You find all combined in a pdf file at PDF link

The different pages show:

- Infograph of several hussar units 1812-1814
- Sabretaches of the regiments Isjum and Sumsk (no. 1) and Aleksander (no. 2), all of 1809
- Officer's sabretache of Aleksander hussars 1814-15
- Contemporary image of an Aleksander officer 1813 (done by Nikolai Pawlowitsch)
- another contemporary image of an Aleksander officer 1813 (done by Nikolai Pawlowitsch)
- officer and hussar of Aleksander regiment in 1813 (part of a larger uniform series)

Although one sabretache has brass (golden) fittings, I would tend to white metal fittings (as shown on the Infograph and the officer of 1813)

The two books covering the Alexander period of 1801 onwards are highly recommended, unfortunately out of print … and surely very difficult to get some on the antiquarian market. But a must have for all researchers of the Russian army.

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

Caprum and Napstein do either of you have link to the Russian Hussar uniforms prints that Caprum put in this thread. I am tying to find it and I ma having difficulty finding the actual website for the person. I am roughly guessing at the name Viktor Boltyshev. Trying to figure out the letters in Russian is not easy for me yet.