"Is Magic Science?" Topic

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. – Arthur C. Clarke

So, the short word "is" is in the short title. But I am asking in TTWG (and RPGs, if you want), do we treat magic like it is a science?

Fireballs have precise ranges and statistical damage distributions. Resistance to magic fire is based on well-defined categories of characteristics. You have logistic and infrastructure support … er … manna … to cast 2 level 3 spells or 3 level 2 spells.

Some of this is due to wanting to put them into a structured TTWG format. It's less so for RPGs, where the rules are interpreted subjectively (WRT the milieu and plot) by a referee, but it seems that magic is still very well statted out there as well.

There is the argument that if we wanted more "magic" magic, we would need overly complex rules. More than we already have. I think a lot of that could be easily overcome. While I acknowledge that I am in the minority when it comes to liking nomograms and slide rules, the idea of a magician pouring over obtuse diagrams and fiddling with strange artifacts is compelling to me.

I think that just overall, we want to subjugate magic to our will, so we want it to conform to our idea of scientific rigor. It's not a supernatural set of phenomena, just one that is outside most people's experience and span of control.

Maybe there are other options? Maybe there are scads of TTWG and RPG that don't treat magic like Jane's Necromancy, ones I don't know about?

If 'magic' is entirely predictable under given rules, it's exactly science. If it's not fully understood, if random things can result, it's more like the magic I think of.
But actually if you posit magic actually working, then what does make it different from a not-fully-understood technology?

I believe that the difference is that science by definition arises from the study and harnessing of the natural world.

Magic arises from the study and harnessing of the supernatural world.

The objection that the supernatural world is just part of the natural world that we don't scientifically understand yet, is a statement of faith.

Science needs to have a logical and provable cause and effect, Magic can be predictable, but there is no logical cause for it that can be proven.
That is my take on it, anyway.

Magic is part of telling a story. Most fantasy authors apply some kind of logic or system to how magic is used – in some cases this is the most fundamental aspect of the novel.

So how would we have a fun game without some form of predictability of magic? Even random effects are still predictable, with limits as to the success or lack of success of the action

Incidentally, if I see something posted by etotheipi, I know there it's going to be worth reading.

John

All good points. And since we are wargaming, we are modeling, so there has to be come structure.

I just feel like we expect too much precision predictability out of magic. Using a fireball has the same feel to the players as using a machine gun.

Predictable magic is easier than unpredictable. You cast a fireball and there's a clear definition of effect.

If you instead invoked fire spirits that would do variable things then you have three options I can think of.
The rules define the variability so you have rather more complicated rules.
The referee needs to make stuff up. So the ref has to be inventive.
Or
The player makes stuff up and the ref decides how hard that is to achieve. The Feng shui approach.

Should we make magic unpredictable? (With all players consent obviously.)

So the rules say
Fireball. Range 20cm, damage 3d6, radius of 3cm

You add in a die roll for each. On a 1 it drops short by 5 cm of the nominated target point, on a 6 over by 5cm, even if that takes it to 35cm.
Like wise a chance damage is 1d6 or 5d6, the radius is point of impact only or 5cm.

It is understood the caster has done nothing different, the conditions are all the same, it's just magic has an inbuilt randomness to it. If a sword breaks, it breaks for a reason, even if that reason is not understood. Magic is just…