"What Makes 1/144 so Great" Topic

Back in 2008 we finaly published our rules (Maneouvre Group) having moved from SI-FI Stargrunt II to Moderns. We had a few good years but eventually 1/72 wargaing lost its charm. I cannot get on with other than 1:1 for WW2 or moderm as unlike ancients its not really possible in close terrain to get multi element frontages right for other than infantry. That meant we needed a bigger board for 1:1 gaming using vehicles with long ranges. 1:1 at 1/72 in built up areas it's OK as the ranges are short anyway but such areas are a death trap for vehicles in most cases. As we played on 8ft by 6ft tables there was no space to go to bigger tables so smaller groundscales meant smaller models.

We were lucky, at the time the new plastic 1/144 by Cando and the like were out so we ordered 6mm, 1/144, and 15mm to see where we wanted to go next.

For us 1/144 was an outright winner.

6mm was too snall, while at 1:1 you need to turn turrets (for us), while it was just possible for medium and heavy tanks, smaller vehicles were too small and fiddley. Also a bit of a strage anti-simulation issue, you needed huge numbers of buildings to represent a decent village, so many that you would need far more abstraction, which we did not see how to do well so that was another downside.

15 mm a modelling disaster, scale is something that happens to other scuilptors not "15mm". A bit like Bistromathic drive, 15mm scale defined all possible figure sizes except 15mm. That meant they were often little shy of our 1/72 models and far more expensive than 1/72. To be fair modern plastic 15mm are far more consistant than the dreaded matal stuff. However we still saw that as a bit to close to 1/72 to offer the most advantage and these "new" plastic 15mm were not around at the time of our switch.

Then came Cando models at 1/144, accurate and at the time cheap. Minifigs as then, did a lot of other stuff at a nominal 12mm, they were a bit variable but no so bad as some 15mm variability so 1/144 it was. You can turn turrets and have a decent enough groundscale that tanks can get more or less out of range of each other so a decent combined arms game at 1:1 became possibel that looks reasonable (models are still about 7 times the linear scale of the ground but as we are using more open terrain it dowes not look too bad.

Now nothings perfect even at 1/144, villages are a bit small but Co-author Paul came up with using our scaled down Fold flat buildings on a base so that the spacing between buildings was kept accurate, important as this smaller scale and allowing them to be removed temporarilly to move figures if neccessary. Thus began our love affair with 1/144.

However we then aquired a 3D printer and that is a perfect piece of kit for 1/144 stuff. We coulkd make and store vehicels, particularly ones we could not buy and as Cando and the like pulled out the market, my son AOTRS Shipyards began making the much needed stuff and all to a rigid real world scale.

Really it became a no contest contes,t 1/144 the perfect minimum size for us.

What about 10mm I hear you say, well in the initial studies there was non to minimal around. We did look at it later but it had two main drawbacks. Most figure for 10mm were actually 12mm weir,d but that is the incompetence of sculptors, they are unable to control their artistic escapades to any sensible extent. Also we realised that "size" at least as we percived it, was about volume not linear scale. So 10mm models will appear to be 57% smaller, moving into the too fiddley for us category. Subsequently many 10mm manufactures seem to have moved closer to 1/144 scale anyway.

So that is why 1/144 scale rules for us, what's youe story comming to the worlds best scale.

I like that it is a scale and not a size (6, 10, 15mm)

And the models are cute

Cute ???? To be honest my tanks look great, scale models, detailed, light weight, easily packed away, but never cure. But to be fari my models would not make it to the "Nude and Semi-Nude Figures – NSFW" section where you may describe some (but not all) as cute.

I think 10mm/12mm is a very fuzzy distinction IRL. I have a bunch of WW2 15mm because that's what local people play. One advantage of 1/144 is aircraft availability. FoW uses 1/144 aircraft and 15mm or 1/100 for everything else which is weird.

Now that Victrix have gone big on 1/144 I think it's a scale on the up, for sure.

All scales are perfect. Every scale from 3mm to 30mm (or 1/300 to 1/48 for those with religious convictions about "size" and "scale") is the perfect compromise between visibility and maneuverability on the tabletop. I know this, because I have been so informed by the proponents of each of them.

And 2mm and 54mm are perfect too. 2mm is perfect for portability and realism which trump all other virtues and 54mm is perfect for appearance, which also trumps all other virtues.

Or, we could just say that a lot depends on what you're trying to represent on your tabletop and just what size that tabletop is, how much money you've got, what your eyesight's like and just flat taste.

There are dozens of ways of representing moderns on the tabletop. I'm glad you've got one you like.

Now that Victrix have gone big on 1/144 I think it's a scale on the up, for sure.

Not just Victrix, but an ever-growing list of 3D makers.

I like that it is a scale and not a size (6, 10, 15mm)

I also like this about 1/144. Models made to that scale by different manufacturers are usually still compatible to mix on the table top. I have Shermans and T-34s from multiple sources – Takara WTM, Pegasus, Revell, m_bergman prints, DOP POD, Anschluss, Victrix – and they are all nearly identical in size and proportions. The biggest variations I've seen are in level of detail, thickness of gun barrel, and style of tracks (many 3D sculptors go for an impression rather than an accurate depiction).

Scale variations and hand-sculpted proportions vary enough between 10mm manufacturers to make the models incompatible when placed side by side.

The main thing I like about 1/144 scale is the huge (and growing) number of really good, detailed, proportional vehicle models out there. The gashopon pre-painted vehicles were great, while they were cheap and available. The 3D print market is more variable in quality, but still size-compatible.

Good 1/144 infantry is much harder to find. I really like the Victrix infantry, but I am unimpressed with 10mm (or MiniFigs 12mm) options. This leaves me in the uncomfortable position of waiting for Victrix releases and playing only the theaters/periods they've made so far, but I'm only interested in WWII anyway, and they haven't shown any signs of slowing down, so I'm optimistic I'll get what I want eventually. (And I'm actually hoping they don't branch into Pacific War and CBI figures (Japanese, Marines, Australians, Chindits, etc.), because I don't want to be tempted into starting over…)

Kallistra 12mm infantry also generally looks really nice, so if I played any of those periods in 1/144 scale, I might buy into them. I don't own any myself, so I'm only going on the word of others that Kallistra's 12mm are 1/144ish enough to be compatible.

1/144 is about the minimum scale I consider it reasonable to turn a turret. 1/285 and 1/300 tanks are really too small for my fingers, not to mention fragile.

1/144 is also the smallest scale at which decals are tolerable. I can manage 1/200 insignia and serial number decals on 1/200 planes, but slogans and nose art and kill marks and tiny serial numbers strain my sanity.

I also find that weathering at scales smaller than 1/144 is almost a null proposition. I've done it, but it's hard to see when I'm done, and I often find it isn't worth the effort. A lot of my more recent 1/200 planes are unweathered or barely weathered, and I'm fine with it.

- Ix

Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear infantry would be at 1/144 scale, a bit easier to find than infantry that go with Bandai's line of Gundam, 30 Minute Mission and Warriors on the Borderline mecha models.

victrix look amazing….must resist new era/scale

Lets stop quibbling over 1/144, 1/160 SCALE. The math does not lie 6 feet of measurement=1800 mm

(25mm = 1 Inch (dropping fractions of a MM). 25mm x 12= 300mm to the foot; 300mm x6feet= 1800)

To determine SIZE using the fractional scale (the bottom denominator of SCALE), you get:
1800 divided by 144 (SCALE)= 12.5mm SIZE
1800 divided by 160 (SCALE)= 11.25mm SIZE
1800 divided by 180 (SCALE)= 10mm SIZE

The difference between 1/144th and 1/160th SCALE is 1.25mm in SIZE. If ya'll bring calibers to your games to compare size of figures (where in real life people come in all SIZES), ya'll need a life! Even comparing with 10mm SIZE to the 1/144th SCALE, the difference is only 2.5mm. That's smaller than most MDF bases! (An astute observer will notice that the larger the denominator is in SCALE, the smaller the object is in SIZE.

It is more important to me that the model I am using is NOT a proxy- that it is a model of the vehicle I want to be using. When your 1/160th scale tank fires at my 1/144th scale one, there is no modifier for me being a larger SIZED tank on the table than if it was a 1/160th SCALED one. Those models are supposed to be miniature versions of the real thing, having all the quirks and perks as their real life counterparts or else you are not playing "historically".

So I ask the hive= does 1.25-2.5mm difference going to interfere with your die rolling? If a Sherman is "off" by 1-2mm in length or width sitting beside another in the same platoon going to spoil your gaming joy? If so, there is always 1/35th scale where the scale modelers have imposed strict guidelines upon the manufacturers. I'll stick to what the consensus seems to want to call our toys "1/144 th SCALE". I am a big boy and can accept that we are all in the same ballpark enough to use them all and enjoy the game!

I should decare my bias. I am 100% wargamer, not modeler, to me the 3ft rules is a rule, not an advisoery. Painting for me is the worst bit of wargaming so I only ever colour. On that basis FOR ME 1/72 is to big, more modelling than game playing bigger scales are not even a consideration. .

Dye4minis you miss the point, its not linear scale that counts as far as the eye sees, it's volumetric scale. See my first post"

" So 10mm models will appear to be 57% smaller, moving into the too fiddley for us category."

Now N gauge (1/144 UK to about 1/160 US). 1/144 to 1/160 the 1/160 will be 73% of the 1/144 "size" so not an inconsiderable diffrence.

Now don't get me started on basing. Even my special real scale prone figures use 0.6mm bases, still not perfect but tall 3mm bases for me destroy the visual appeal of the battlefield and make visulisation difficult espacially at these small scales.
A grunt on a nearly 2ft base (infantry are often on a base mounted on a base) makes life hell. A countour for us is about 8ft (2.4m) so a figuere 2 ft(600mm) above base ground level is huge. I dont like my own 0.6mm (86mm in real life) bases. However the "cost" of going thinner would be potentially be a very frigile base that would not stand up well. I could look at variable layer height printing, but sensibly that may only give me 0.1mm or 14mm real life lower so the gains are not great.

I have come close to my perfect base but its not very practical thin clear plastic. If thin eneough you see the base colour through, it but it takes up far to much time to be practical. It was part of my real scale standing figure experiment. They proved to be too fragile and to be honest looked dafter to me, than troops lieing down, someting thay do a lot in combat. Lieing down prone would not be practical for me to print efficently so it want away as a basing option. Unfortunaley there is no such thing as a clear printed piece so printing a clear base is not possible.

Dye, people come in all sizes, but Panzer IV's don't. Nor should a French battalion at Waterloo be 6" taller or shorter than its British opponent. "People come in all sizes" is a fine motto if all you do is 28mm skirmish. The rest of us try to be more careful--or should.

Brian, if you mean what you say -"I am 100% wargamer, not modeler, to me the 3ft rules is a rule, not an advisoery." then you missed MY point. That variance in math should have no consequence when rolling your dice to ascertain if you hit. If the model was 73% larger or smaller (remember, we are talking in millimeters at an arm's length), the target still represents a Sherman M4A3E2 or a Pzkfw IV F2 doesn't it? In my definition of a 100% wargamer it's the results that count when playing a game. Now of course, the visual look has to be there but without the use of one's Mk I eyeballs to relay the visual excitement.

Bobby P: What does this mean? "The rest of us try to be more careful--or should." Are you implying that your standards should apply to everyone in order to enjoy miniature gaming? I don't think that is your meaning but does come across a bit daft. My "people come in all sizes" is a statement of fact; NOT a motto. Of course, I bet you, too, used your Airfix figures with your Minitanks,(next to your Airfix AFV models) and still had a great time playing your game!

Sure, we have progressed since those days and became more discerning about what we use in our games. We are really blessed with choices these days. So choose and use those that you feel makes your games more enjoyable (just please leave your calibers on your painting table!) Have fun!

I dunno about great, but 1/144th certainly is a "gross" scale.

I'll get my hat and coat…

"an amount equal to twelve dozen; 144" you had me for a bit on that one.

HAHA! Good one, Parzival!

Lets stop quibbling over 1/144, 1/160 SCALE.

No.

I agree that the human figures can be somewhat ambiguously scaled – they all are anyway. It's better to the eye if they are all consistent in size, but variations in pose and equipment help hide small variations in size. I don't think I'll be mixing Perrin and Victrix on the table, but some of the Pendraken figures are large enough to be on separate stands near Victrix figures.

Vehicles need to be consistently sized. It really bothers me to have two ships/planes/tanks side by side that look really different despite being models of the same class/type. I know from owning them that I can't mix different brands of 10mm tanks on the table, nor mix 10mm with 12mm or 1/144. As I noted above, the 1/144 oeuvre has so far been pretty consistently scaled, so I can and do mix brands of 1/144 models.

Note that what I'm expressing here isn't really scale puritanism, but rather appearance puritanism. If I liked Pendraken and Pithead more than Victrix/Takara/Revell/Pegasus/etc., I'd be using 1/150 figures instead of 1/144.

- Ix

Well I have to admit that the size difference is more than noticeable in some cases. I just compared a Minifig US duce and a half with a Pendraken one. Also, Victrix German infantry with Minifigs' and it's noticeable! Once deployed on the table I do not think it will look too far off as long as not standing close to one another.

My 12mm Sherman should engage just as well as my 1/144th ones when playing in a game. That satisfies my requirements. YMMV. Neither one will make my die rolling any better!

Yellow Admiral +1 Scale to me is more important than the standard of painting. An Infantry man standing next to a vehicle he cannot into is an utter turn off and can make it hard to play. Is a feature sized to an oversized infantry man or a real scale tank. The paint job cannot compensate for such gross inaccuracies, a bit of difference say no more than at most 1.5 mm on a tank may be acceptable, no more.

It may not make die rolling any different but at least to me that's not the game, its the planning and execution of the plan. For that the models need to be at a consistent size relative to the board and consistently sized to the other parts of the force.

Scale to me is more important than the standard of painting.

Heresy! Burn the infidel!

An Infantry man standing next to a vehicle he cannot [fit] into is an utter turn off and can make it hard to play.

That's been a very real problem for me when building 1/144 plane kits. Certain models are flown exclusively by legless pilots because there was no other way to fit a figure into the cockpit. Fortunately, all you can usually see of a pilot figure through a 1/144 canopy is the head and torso…

OTOH, my buildings are deliberately undersized: my preference is buildings with approximately 1cm doorways (roughly N scale…?). When each base/vehicle represents a unit of many humans/vehicles, buildings need to be underscale to reduce footprint, but I can't stand buildings looking liked dollhouses next to the figures. A man or even SPG towering over a 2-story building ruins the aesthetic.

- Ix

Yellow Admiral Yup paint standard is not on my critical list. Look at my Fold flat stuff.

Buildings I agree with you. even My Fold flat stoff is a bit on the small side footprint wise, but like you the doors and windows are very close to scale so they look full size.

This thread has my 1/44 infidel buldings with minimal colour for which I am more than happy ;-).

TMP link

Note the super small Church. Interstingly nobody has ever moaned that the Church is the wrong Footprint or height as the windows and doors are figure size. Similarly nobody notices the houses have no chimenys, they should have as the most common house is basically my house slightly scaled down. Originally so the 1/72 version originally, from Dot Matrix printer days, fitted neatly on A4 so as not to waste expensive card.

Ther 3 story buildings are even more of a footpring distortion, sorry no normal pics of those so have ued the ones on Wargamevault.

link

Note how narrow they are. Again nobody ever complains about the narrow bits.

Urban areas are always going to be a very big appoximation where the groundscale is not close to 1:1 with the models. Even with the "shrunk" buildings one house takes up the space of around 30 to 40 buildings. We deal with this the same for 1/144 as we do for 1/72. We restrict troops to 1 figure per window/door but you are not required to enter by a door, but movement through buildings is fairly random. However as your moves are typically quite short, they are not too effected by the random element. Longer moves are and you get to us a satisfying level of increasing disorder if you try to move in great haste though loads of buildings.