"Venezuela To Vote On Invading Its Neighbour Guyana" Topic

"Venezuelans going to the polls Sunday will be asked to answer an unusually provocative question: Should their government be given a blank check to invade neighboring Guyana, and wrest away three-quarters of its oil-rich territory? …"

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Armand

Communist democracy is action.

Guyana better be calling up the reserves and asking the UN for help now because the only reason to ask that in an election is to give cover for the invasion you already planned.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Can't remember another time where the people voted on invading another country and starting a war.

Democratic Socialism in action.

Doesn't matter what the vote will be. If the majority is "no", the government will simply declare to election null and void, and since they've already asked the question, that means they have already drawn up the plans.

How do you know they aren't coming to the aid of the people of Guyana begging for liberation from the American stooge government? Wanted to be the first one to say it.

A quick google search found that the idea of the invasion was originally proposed by a Venezuelan opposition party. It has been taken up by the government and is being pushed heavily. It is expected that the vote will pass easily. Given that the border with Guyana and Brazil was set by the same arbitration in 1899, Brazil is nervous.

It seems to me that Venezuela is pushing for self imposed regime change.

Well Venezuela has managed to loose to an unarmed ocean liner when one of its patrol boats squared off against one during the coup hysteria period…

My limited knowledge of the geography is its jungle and hilly and we all know how well things can not go in terrain like that.

Venezuela is broke and I'd hazard that its military these days is stuffed full of people selected for their loyalty to the regime rather than competence.

Guyana also enjoy's backing from Brazil and the US.

Frankly this seems more like the opening to some ham fisted diplomatic gambit or an equally stupid attempt to create internal unity in Venezuela. An actual invasion attempt would be regime suicide and pretty guaranteed to unravel faster than Russia's three-day special military operation.

After having gone along the border in satellite view: good luck with that invasion. And the logistics trail.

a story as old as humankind, an older spanish-speaking Goliath with 28 millions of inhabitants 300 000 soldiers 430 000 reservists against a poor young english-speaking David of 750 000 inhabitants 4600 military and 3000 in the reserve
but Historically it will be a great rupture given Venezuela is the only country in Latin America who never knew until now a war against an other State since the Independance, dissolution of Gran Colombia and death of Simón Bolívar,
the exception was in 1902-1903 when others non-american powers attacked the country with the bombardment and landing from a German-British-Italian Fleet
the short declaration of war against Nazi Germany in 1945 was rather symbolic

If it happens….

So a sovereign country, invaded by a bigger socialist/communist neighbor,in a land grab. The country being invaded is a republic. 🤔

Will there be outrage from Europe and the U.S.? Will we all pump weapons and money into Guyana? Will people have flags of Guyana in front of their homes and wear buttons with their colors? Will there be outrage on TV and the media?

I'm curious if this will somehow…be different and if so, why? 🤔

Guyana ready to allow foreign military presence in the country

"We're interested in maintaining peace in our country and in our borders, but we're going to be working with our allies to ensure that we plan for all eventualities," Guyanese Vice President Bharrat Jagdeo said Thursday -- including welcoming the establishment of foreign military bases.

"We were never interested in military bases, but we have to protect our national interest," he said, adding that defense cooperation was being pursued "with a number of countries."

Two teams from the US Department of Defense will visit Guyana next week, Jagdeo added.

"All the options available for us to defend our country will be pursued. Every option."

Guyana has the world's biggest reserves of crude per capita, while its neighbor sits on the largest proven reserves overall.

Rest assured, the current administration has a plan. I'll let you decide if it is a good one.

It is just another attempt to spread the US and allies thin.

Apparently its all the British Empires fault and Russia's!
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I'd note that 2/3 of the 300,000 figure seems to be paramilitaries.

If Venezuela actually do this I think it will be different for a start it seems like there would be historical precedent for Brazil to weigh in on Guyana's side. Venezuela is also in the precarious position of being heavily reliant on Russian equipment….

IMHO nothing will happen. As you all may recall, I was living in Ecuador. The only homeless people we had were mostly Venezuelans (and a few Colombians) living in the streets. I recently read that as much as 30% of the Venezuelan population is seeking or has sought immigration to other countries, like the US, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, etc (if you think illegal immigration is just a US problem, think again…). We also had a Venezuelan refugee living with us for around 1.5 years. While this does not make me an expert, it does give me some insight.

This is all for internal consumption, to distract the people from the devastating cluster-eff that is the country. Given what I have heard from the refugees, I would be surprised if they could pull it off…

Damon.

I was not aware that Venezuela had enough of a functioning government to do this, and half its people are headed to or already the US. As we know, the food crisis reached a peak just before the pandemic, triggering mass migration, still not good. They are short of everything, medical supplies,etc. does Guyana have something to eat? Otherwise forget it, not happening…

When will we hear that Guyana has been shelling the border for years or that most "Venezuelan-speaking" Guyanand prefer to be part of Venezuela?

When will individuals begin kowtowing to Venezuelan demands in an effort to appease them out of fear of what they may do? When will people begin to criticize the current administration regarding whatever position they decide on?

My tinfoil hat tells me this is part of the same global war that's raging in Ukraine and the middle east. We are just too naive to realize it.

does Guyana have something to eat?

Guyana exports something like $73 USDmil in rice to Venezuela annually.

Damon.

Venezuela is oil rich and can't operate its own oil industry well. The Chavez government nationalized the oil industry and drove out everyone with the high order skills and experience to keep things running, and saw it collapse. It now produces only 1/5th of what it had before this move, and Maduro doubled down on Chavez's policies keeping Venezuela poor and oppressed. But not the first time a despot would start a war to deflect blame onto others, eh?

Prince Alberts Revenge+1

My tinfoil hat tells me this is part of the same global war that's raging in Ukraine and the middle east. We are just too naive to realize it.

No tinfoil needed. Venezuela's three closest allies are China, Iran and Russia, and has good ties with North Korea.

Agree with much was posted here …

IMHO nothing will happen.

That is the bottom line. Saber rattling and posturing for local consumption.

But if they need more soldiers, there are 1000s of Venezuelan military age males roaming the USA illegally. The USA should even volunteer to fly them back. In a "humanitarian" gesture, etc.

This is all for internal consumption, to distract the people from the devastating cluster-eff that is the country. Given what I have heard from the refugees, I would be surprised if they could pull it off…

I'd agree, though timing is awful suspicious. Though while the cat is looking in another direction other mice will attempt to play…

@witteridderludo, indeed. Using google maps for directions from/to Georgetown and Caracas, I find that the only route is through Brazil – a meagre distance of 2,164 km. Good luck to the logistics planners; they may very well find themselves on the wrong end of a firing squad's rifles when things don't go as hoped but as any loggie might expect.

Glad they are getting the rice there. Hopefully it is affordable…

Those are some great allies Venezuela has! No wonder things go so well there….

Venezuela: "They have food and toilet paper! Let's get'em!"

As Shadoe has indicated, the only land route is through Brasil and Brasil has started to mobilize its military on the Venezuelan border. While not a full mobilization, it is enough to halt anything but a full advance. Venezuela does not want to fight Brasil. If Maduro thinks that he can bully Guyana because of size, Brasil outnumbers Venezuela 10:1.

Lula has stated that he will stand with Guyana.

"We learned that the Esquibo was Venezuelan. Our masters will try to draw a national map as completely as possible, and we will also show the Guayana Express as part of the illustration. Aquel esmero pedagogico no era un saluto a la bandera, era una grand verdad: the Esequibo is historically Venezuelan. From 1777, when the Captaincy General of Venezuela was created, it was established as the eastern border between Spain and the Basque Country and the Esequibo River, and it was born before it disembodied in the Atlantic Ocean. This is how the Esequibo is from Venezuela from its origins.

Subsequently, after the war of independence and the loss of our Bolivarian country, the English provided the opportunity to invade Venezuelan territory on the eastern side of the Esequibo River. In 1899, due to a fraudulent official arbitration in Paris, our country lost 140,000 km², at this time and until 1999 all the Venezuelan citizens were placed in a firm position and there was no recognition of this fall to consider it illegal and void. By the way of a possible solution between the parties, it is as stable as the Acuerdo de Ginebra of 1966.

Without embargo, from 1999, with the legacy of Hugo Chávez al-Poder, this position of defense firm of the Venezuelan Esquibo was weakened. As part of an external political bus policy in the Caribbean and by order of the Cuban, Venezuelan express, no one abandons its territorial claim, if only it adopts a permissive policy and indifference to the actions of Guyana in the Esequibo territory. To record only Chávez's visit to Georgetown in 2004, when he did not criticize the politics of democratic governments, he also declared that he was disappointed that the Venezuelan government did not respond to any project in the area in question. otorgando así a license in Guyana to use the territory.

After these words have been spoken for several days, the situation will not change if it changes. Since the policy continued with Maduro as president, it was the case that Guyana's projects in the territory were neglected, vacancy by good offices and little in the way of negligent actions in the international conference. As Venezuela abandoned the patrol of the zone, it did not raise the international alert concerning Guyana's oil concessions in the zone and decided not to compare it before requesting it in the International Court of Justice. So, if Alguien betrayed the patria, Maduro would die.

After this chain of unfortunate events that debitaron the historical position of Venezuela, the regime of the night at night was saca del sombrero a fulano referendum to reclaim the Esequibo. The pretension that we endure is because, después de entregar nuestro territorio, vienen ahora con un discurso trasnochado de patriotismo y unidad nacional. Respuesta no esta en Guyana, sino en Venezuela. Well, as of October 22 and the loss of energy and effervescence that generates primary elections, the ones that Maduro has completely deslocated. Maduro activated this as a reaction to the enormous social movement of the internal process of the position, whereby she was uniquely eligible for a candidate, in this case María Corina Machado, although the girl had just received a daily message and the fact that it was available I have to worry about what I have to do to sully Maduro's regime.

As Maduro claims to politically instrumentalize a dispute with Guyana to overturn the attention of the force desatada por la primaria, to promote the division of the opposition and to create a conflict that is beneficial to our desenfoque del objectivo principal, que son unas elecciones competivas el próximo año, tal how it is established in the country of Barbados. In tal sentido, es sumamente important que, tanto las fuerzas democráticas como el free mundo, no nos desviemos de ese propósito, solo una Venezuela libre y democrática, con un Estado fuerte, pujante y resintitucionalizado, podrá ejercer la soberanía a plenitud y recuperar sus historical derechos of the Esequibo. A new Armed Forces also expresses its irresistible influence on its decision to eject soberanía, but it does not allow it to be manipulated by the war grit that aliens from Miraflores, with its netamente political proposals.

I conclude by saying that whatever happens on Sunday, the most important thing for Venezuela's interests is not the result of that referendum. On Monday we will continue to have a country with human rights violations, organized crime, salaries of less than $20 USD, hospitals without supplies and borders overflowing with Venezuelans leaving in terror. The important thing is how we manage to articulate enough force, both political parties and civil society, to get rid of Maduro, who is the obstacle for Venezuela to recover its territorial integrity."
OT

Article by Julio Borges…

Julio Andrés Borges Junyent (Caracas, October 22, 1969) is a Venezuelan politician and lawyer.1 He was elected deputy to the National Assembly of Venezuela for Miranda during the periods 2000-2005, 2010-2015 and 2016-2021 and 8th president of the National Assembly of Venezuela for the period 2017-2018.2 He is the founder of the Primero Justicia party. He was host of the television program Justicia Para Todos.3​ He represented Venezuela before the Lima Group between January 2019, presidential commissioner for Foreign Relations appointed by opposition leader Juan Guaidó in August 2019.4​5​6​ He resigned from said positions. positions on December 5, 2021.7​8​

Armand

Subject: Venezuela: vote shows 'overwhelming' support for claim on region of Guyana


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"President Nicolas Maduro hailed what he called "an overwhelming victory for the 'Yes' throughout Venezuela."

"We have taken the first steps of a new historic stage in the struggle for what belongs to us, to recover what the liberators left us," he said."

Subject: Venezuela: vote shows 'overwhelming' support for claim on region of Guyana


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Maduro's regime is incredibly unpopular (big surprise) and he needs to bolster his rule by trying to rally the populus in hopes of a nationalistic fervor.
Despite the supposed extremely high turnout that the official government claimed, independent monitors said the polling places were pretty much ghost towns.

Frankly I think the invasion of our Southern border with at least 8 million+ illegal aliens, criminals, drug runners, sex traffickers, terrorists, etc. & counting is a bigger threat to the US population. Which BTW much of what the US gov't is directing and sanctioning is illegal AFAIK.

What will most likely happen is, if any Venezuelan forces actually reach Guyana, they will surrender and ask for asylum… ;-)

Venezuelan President Maduro Has Ordered The Mobilization Of The Army While Announcing The Annexation Of Two-Thirds Of Guyana

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Armand

I read n El Universo that Brazil is moving troops to the border region as well.

Damon.

Yes… they did because the only road or route potentially usable between both countries passes through Brazilian territory …

But "Lula" also said to all those who want to listen to him… that Maduro is a very good friend of him…

Armand

A Day After Venezuela Declared It Will Annex Two Thirds Of Guyana, The U.S. Announces It Will Conduct Military Drills With Guyana

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Armand

Yes, sending US SF/Spec Ops, etc. to try to train someone else's military to fight to defend their nation. Hmmm … ?

Legion are you insinuating that the US has issues securing both their borders? Say it ain't so! 😉

Sadly, with our current top leadership … we have no borders. But 9 million more mouths to feed, home, provide medical care, cell phones, etc., etc. With more to follow …

Who is paying for this ? Oh … wait … the US taxpayers of course …

Maduro said he was launching "a joint action of a defensive nature in response to the provocation and threat of the United Kingdom against peace and the sovereignty of our country."

in response to Britain sending a warship to waters off Guyana 5682 Venezuelan military personnel in a "defensive" exercise from several components of Venezuela's armed forces were deployed, along with three ocean patrol vessels, three multipurpose vessels, seven missile boats, eight amphibious vehicles and over 20 fighter planes, including 12 Sukhoi.

While the troops deployed represent roughly 4% of Venezuela's estimated military force, it matches the number of Guyana's estimated combatants. That balance of power could shift if Guyana's allies intervene, according to Rocio San Miguel, an expert in military issues and the president of Caracas-based watchdog group Control Ciudadano.

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Posturing or saber rattling?

This may be the war that can never start. Every time Venezuela gets a regiment trained, they take off for Mexico and then cross the US border. 😉

They don't seem to be the only ones !