"Something non-wargamers do that really annoys you..." Topic

I was wondering: What's something that 'civilians' (i.e. non-historical wargamers) do that really annoys you? For me, it's people who use the words 'German' and 'Nazi' as if they are the same thing. Deep down I know it's not really their fault as TV and movies have been doing this for decades, but it doesn't keep it from being annoying!

I could do without the endless jokes about how stupid the tactics of linear warfare were.

+1 to MA Jones

Jim

Why people mean to say Custer but they say Custard.

I could do without the endless jokes about how stupid the tactics of linear warfare were.

Not just linear warfare! For example, apparently landing at Omaha Beach was stupid because it was well defended. Also, the landing craft should have been armored, and also landed parallel to the shoreline so the troops could shelter in them. World War I, by contrast, could have been easily won if the guys had just run full tilt (doing zig-zigs) toward the enemy trenches instead of advancing at a walk.

+2 to MA Jones

Calling our hobby "Playing with Toy Soldiers" as if we line our figures up & shoot rubber bands at them (which I did do as a preteen).

You must be glorifying war

If you play the Germans you must like Nazis

Aren't you a little too old for that?

There does not seem to be much diversity

Wolfhag

Iron Duke, I really couldn't care less about that. Some Germans were (more or less) forced into the party. Many more didn't join but supported it more or less. The Wehrmacht wasn't clean. So really, I don't care. After all, many who joined up wanted to fight "the Nazis".
What does annoy me? People who counter a criticism of the 'history' they tell by saying "You can't know because you weren't there".

Well, as a start it would be good if you are going to comment on World War II to know who actually was on which side – I continue to be amazed at the people (including apparently the Canadian Prime Minister) who don't know that Russia was on our side

Calvary instead of cavalry. Pisses me off

Spurius
The cool kids used marbles.

"who don't know that Russia was on our side"

Russia was on both sides. Russia started WWII together with Hitler, as Hitler's ally, and then, as usual, betray his ally.

Wrong. The cool kids like me used dirt clods that exploded on impact 😁

When I was a kid (before cool meant anything but chilly) we used air guns and fireworks

DBDD

Wargaming glorifies war

I could care less as to what anybody outside of the historical gaming hobby thinks about what we do. If they express an interest in the hobby I will take time to explain it and encourage them to give it a try. If they want to just criticize it they can take a hike.

Touch. My. Stuff!!!!

They always call Soviets 'Russians'.

And 'they' always call The Netherlands 'Holland'. Sorry, not just non-wargamers…

Those who call it World War II. It's The Second World War, not a film sequel.

What drives me crazy is when they grab painted figures by the handful to move them.

"I'm kind of an expert on this topic. I read a book about it" and then gives wildly inaccurate information on a battle.

The bizarre idea that talking about war causes wars to happen.

+1 Titchmonster

Nothing, really. "Non-wargamers" is a broad group, and there's nothing about being uninterested in wargames (or unaware of them) which is inherently annoying. It takes a lot more than simply not sharing my hobby to annoy me. Narrow it down a bit more.

Nine times out of ten, when someone new to the hobby sees us playing, they are polite and often interested. It's not annoying really, but the thing I regret most is when folks look at our little guys and say, "That looks like fun, but I could never do that..", "I don't have the patience," "History was not my best subject…," or "I played X in college, but now with the kids…" or come up with some other reason not to join in the fun. I always try to encourage folks, and especially kids, to give our games a try -- sometimes it works, but usually people find reasons not to have fun.

Not playing miniature wargames.

Referring to "Nazi tanks" and the like. Not sure how an inanimate object can have a political ideology.

Calling anything larger than a rowboat a "battleship".

The Holland one annoys me too. They wouldn't call Italy, Tuscany or France, Normandy, but Holland is ok for some reason.

To be fair, across the channel Holland has been called 'Holland' for centuries, the County of Holland, fronting the English coast, being the location of the commercial centre of Amsterdam. A flat and fenny district of Linconshire across the North Sea even came to be known as Holland.

The population were and are still known in English as Dutch/Dutchmen rather than Netherlander, with jolly phrases like 'Dutch uncle,''Dutch courage' and 'going Dutch,' et al. In Spain the country is Hollanda and the people Hollandes

More formally, following independence from Spain, the republic came to be known as the 'United Provinces'- (of which Holland was one). After centuries of complicated changes in composition, rulers, and constitution, the name 'Netherlands' came to the fore in the C19th as the name of the kingdom that was created in the aftermath of the Napleonic Wars.

Netherlands/Nederland is a version of Low Countries, a phrase which previously has embraced the territories from Flanders up to Frisia/ Frisland which has complicated the issue.

So there is that.

However, what erks me, is when anybody, gamer or not, refers to Holland as Flanders. Outrageous.

"They always call Soviets 'Russians'."

This is correct btw.
When Stalin started raising the Soviets, he also started to name them as Russians.
Before that these people were named as Velikorosses. And before that – muscovites.

Nothing 'really annoying' at all.

That they won't play wargames with me is a little disappointing…

Ok 42flanker, but it does say something about residents of the UK that so many of them can't be bothered to learn the proper name of a country that is less than 100 miles away at its closest point.

I remember reading somewhere that expressions like "Dutch courage", etc actually started as "Deutsche". That is, they were referring to Germans, but I guess that the Dutch were lumped in with them.

I too used dirt clods in my youth. Great fun!!

Since Germany as a country didn't exist until the late 19th Century, it's not at all surprising that Englishmen would refer to those speaking Low German as "Dutch".
The Italians call Germans "Tedeschi" The French call them Allemandes after the Allemani, a Germanic tribe that occupied the east bank of the Rhein when the Franks took over Gaul.

Can't think of anything, really, or at least nothing more modestly boorish than gamers ourselves might occasionally do. In fact, most non-gamers I know are pretty interested in my hobby nonsense, or are at least very polite about it, and I've shown an awful lot of them the hobby room, lead pile, and painted little men over the years.

@Aussie Andy

To be fair though it's not only the British and it's not as if we call Belgium 'Belgique,' Spain 'España' or Germany 'Deutschland.'

'Deutsch' has never been in the lexicon of English but when heard it settled on the tongue as 'Dutch' It's probably what rolls off the tongue most easily and if it's served for a thousand years….and those tolerant Netherlanders really don't seem to mind.

Yes, it's not like foreigners ever confuse ‘Britain' with ‘England'. I'm not bothered myself, but then, I'm not Scottish or Welsh…

(ducks for cover…)

Referring to the Axis and Allies during WWII as "Factions", this isn't 40K.

I explained to a group about my wargaming hobby as part of an interview process practice. The first question I got was 'How do you feel if they (the models) get moved?' Somehow this person had not got the point at all and imagined that it was a diorama or a model railway set.

I blame myself …

Old Contemptible, I think it's only wargamers who do that. It too hate it though.

'Deutsch' has never been in the lexicon of English but when heard it settled on the tongue as 'Dutch' It's probably what rolls off the tongue most easily and if it's served for a thousand years….and those tolerant Netherlanders really don't seem to mind.

Yes, that's why he was called "Dutch Schultz" even though he was German. My German uncle was called Dutch too. My Polish friend was called Ski.

Wolfhag

Our club has had a rash of players/people who are straight pretenders. They play with your things, comment hardily about paint jobs, basing, terrain and the like. Here is the rub, they own nothing, the put together no models, they of course never paint, they have no terrain. All they bring are opinions. We have several members with fine collections, bought, built, and borrowed. Many have collections with as many facets as the hobby allows.
Let me do an equasion, I do not golf. Imagine if I went to the local course. Sat in the club house and pretended to golf. I have a jeff cap, argyle socks, knickers, but no clubs, no balls, no tees.Why do we allow such silliness? I am 52 years old. If I did not have the space, perrmission, money ,why lie about it? Do other clubs have this? Is this just a Philly thing? Why would grown men pretend to be in a hobby? Why wouldn't they be in the hobby? Very curios indeed.

Your analogy to golfing implies they aren't playing, but in your second sentence you said:

They play with your things, […]

Which is it? Are they playing or not?

If they're actually playing the games, I don't see what the problem is. My local gaming groups include irregular participants who are interested in playing a few games a year, and hanging out for the socializing, but have no interest in collecting or pursuing the arts & crafts themselves. Some of them are boardgamers slumming with the miniatures players; occasionally one is a re-enactor at a different kind of geeky historical social event; some are miniatures gamers without the means or lifestyle to allow collecting; one guy I know is a professional historian who likes to hang out with other history nerds. Of course we welcome them; we get more players for the games and more people to socialize with.

- Ix

They play, but are not invested. We tolerate and understand guys who show up three times a year to play and hang out.There are guys who come constantly and offer nothing but opinion. Several of us have come to realize that we are being treated like movie producers. I have been asked/told I should do this or that when hosting a game. I finally asked how much, money, time, effort they put into thier wonderful ideas. Some how I am the jerk…lol. If you offered me a ride and I did not have a car. I would just say thank you, not comment on the state of your car. I guess people accept this because we pan sports teams, etc. Also, this promotes burn out. I pack, carry, and set up almost every month. I think about a scenario, fairness, victory conditions. This becomes tiring. There is no reciprication. Perhaps I would like to just play once in a while….

I'm far more likely to be annoyed by other wargamers than non-wargamers.

Calling our hobby "Playing with Toy Soldiers" as if we line our figures up & shoot rubber bands at them

I still refer to our hobby as 'Playing with Toy Soldiers". I no longer shoot rubber bands at them, but I do line them up sometimes and go "pow-pow". The difference is that when we do it it is with affection. When an outsider does it it is seen as denigration.

"Old Contemptible, I think it's only wargamers who do that. It too hate it though."

Advocate,

The OP said "(i.e. non-historical wargamers)" Which is what I was talking about. They apply their terminology to historical gaming. The first I heard the term faction referring to sides in a game, I replied that this was not a coup, revolution, Junta or Mobsters in 1930s Chicago. They looked at me as if I had six heads and I looked at them the same.

I certianly play games with toy soldiers.

My brother would get annoyed when non-gamers called his figures "cute."

My only real complaint about an oblivioud non-gamer that's stuck with me, and still bothers me, is when one guy walked up to a table I was playing at, covered with 15mm Union and Confederate troops, farms, fields, and fences, and with a delightfully modelled stream and bridge, and he asked if it was "the space marine game with the orks."

I think the sheer inability to interpret what was in front if him is the part that offends me.