"Ideal size battle to game for you?" Topic

Do you feel that there is an ideal size battle to game -- real or imagined? Essentially, do you prefer skirmish games, a brigade per side? A division per side? You get the idea. I don't think I particularly care as long as the rules can support the number of figures on the table. To me, an issue with Napoleonic figures is that it is easy for enough never to be enough.

I love entire battles, like Borodino, Wagram, or Jena. Though I won't say no to any size game.

Un corps d'armée contre un corps d'armée comme Thann 19/04/1809
Une division contre une division comme Engerau 03/06/1809.
Ou même Arnhofen une brigade contre une division le 19/04/1809.

J'aime quand il y a environ 1000 figurines de part et d'autre sur mon terrain de jeu.

I like Grand Tactical – we did a battle recently in 6mm with three French and two Austrian/one Russian corps – went pretty well

Big battles, as in Napoleon of the West,
Tally Ho!

I prefer to do entire historical battles in the main. So multiple Corps per side.

I used to division vs division with WRG back in the 70s, but I'm not interested in those sorts of little skirmishes now.

I'm happy from brigade to army, but corps is a sweet spot-credibly combined arms, but not primarily maps and command and control. A corps commander could often still see everything.

Napoleonic so go big or stay home.
Usually about 1000 figures in a solo game.

Depends on scale. If 6mm I like big battle. Now, at 28mm, I am only interested in skirmishes.

Larger Battles

I can see that, Grattan. I am experimenting with 3mm troops, and 1,000 3mm figures are a lot different that 1,000 25mm figures.

larger and in general historical scenarios. Done divisional to corps into full armies on the tabletops. Dresden was the largest using 25/28mm and every unit represented. Easy using 1/80 ratio so a typical battalion 5-9 figures and 50 yds /inch.

Full battles with multiple Corps per side.

Larger battles. Fire & Fury, Age of Eagles…500 + figures on the table seems to work best for me.

Play with the figs you have . Then put as many on the table that will fit.

Multi player games with each controlling a Corps.
I love the spectacle.

Anyone see the new Emperor of the Battlefield rules on display at SELWG?

Using Snappy Nappy, I comfortably played Ligny with 3 others on a 4x6 table.

For 28mm I'd say 100 models per side maximum.
For 15/18mm nothing bigger than a division maybe.

Montmirail and similar that are doable as entire battle at Bn level.

I like them all.

6 figures a side is fine. This weekend, I am playing in a Waterloo refight that will have over 1500 28mm figures a side and we will take 2 full days to play. I'm good with anything in between. Though I am doing more skirmish size games of late, but they are larger size skirmish of 30-50 a side.

Empire based III & V own houserules. Limited by a 6 x 4 table so couple of Divisions or just one per side with supporting Cavalry and Artillery.

+1 Duke Wacoan. Particularly since you cite Montmirail, a battle which holds a particular fascination for me.

Although in wargame terms I'd describe it as a Corps-level action, with Battalions as the smallest element individually represented.

Hi

Personally, I think the issue regarding the size of a game is the number of units (rather than the number of figures) a player commands and what they represent. I'm really not sure that playing 'Waterloo' (for example) with every battalion and battery represented on the table is practicable for most of us given the space and time required. That said, if I'm playing a Napoleonic game I really like the idea of throwing a division in here, another in there and keeping a corps in reserve on my left flank, etc. etc……(which to me means each 'unit' representing a brigade at least).

Just my tuppence worth of course!

Cheers Paul

It depends on the era.

Depends on the unit scale and the scenario. I like lots of battalions. I want as much of the battle on the table as I can and still be able to reach the middle. The last game we played was on a 5 X 8 with a lot of 15mm figures.

Something under three hours which includes set-up/teardown.

All scales offer their own advantages, however once a scale is selected the key factor is the physical limits of a game. Two people who wish to complete a game in 2-3 hours should field no more than, and average, of 50 elements of figure each. If you move up to 8 hours for a game the figure count can rise to 100 or even 150 elements per player, but here we do reach diminishing returns as players get exhausted. If you increase the number of players per side the figure count can rise, which is also the case if you move to a multiple day game.

Once you understand the physical limits you can translate that into historical games. A battle which has 100,000 men per side and which needs to be completed in 4-6 hours means each element represents about 1,000 men, or a regiment. If the battle size is 20,000 men per side the scale of an element changes to 200 men, and so on.

It took me a long time to realise this, which is why I have moved to simpler game systems. This also helps me recruit new players. I suspect this may be a reason for the rise in skirmish rules, which i must admit is not my interest. I prefer commanding armies of 30K to 100K.

Personally, I think the issue regarding the size of a game is the number of units (rather than the number of figures) a player commands and what they represent.

This is accurate, but unless you use a movement tray for your multi-element units, you still need to move each element. The key point to look for is; does the element conduct fire or close combat, or does the whole multi-element unit conduct a single fire or close combat. For example, Napoleons Battles conducts fire and close battle by units, while the old WRG rules does so by element. If the elements are, in effect, strength points only, then you need to look at the unit count.

I like to have a battalion, cavalry regiment and artillery battery as the basic unit that forms, maneuvers, and fights, so that means small armies of 2-3 small corps or 5-7 divisions; the Peninsula is a great theater for that scale (as is Italy, 1796-1800).

Between 1000 and 2000 figures per side in 28mm. ESR as the rule system. Back in the day we would have 3 to 4000 figures on the table, playing empire, but that was really, really pushing it for 2 people.

As battle big as possible on a table as small as possible – what I love is not so much a battle where it starts with two sides lined up in front of each other but instead where the divisions are marching to battle, not yet deployed – it's what appeals to me about ESR – any other rules like that I would like to know, but so far I think others that may be similar could be Age of Eagles, Napoleonische Kriegsführung, Grand Manœuvre, Legacy of glory and maybe Empire?

what I love is not so much a battle where it starts with two sides lined up in front of each other but instead where the divisions are marching to battle, not yet deployed

Total agree, its a very different type of game to the line them up and slug it out games. Napoleons Battles and Snappy Nappy are other rules which allow this.

ah Snappy Nappy – that is still a ruleset that has eluded me. i guess i ignored it because of the silly name and the unappealing cover art – superficial yes, but those are sometimes how decisions get made with online purchasing and the copies of snappy nappy i have seen have never been cheap

i guess i ignored it because of the silly name and the unappealing cover art

Same here, i was forced to buy a copy by a friend. The name is awful and the cover art is rather odd. The rules seem ok, i have not used it very much as the person who forced me to buy a copy moved to another country before i could give him a game.

I like anything from an ad hoc all arms brigade per side to full battles with a multi-corps army per side. That said, perhaps my "sweet spot" is a corps or two per side.

For that, I like the basic maneuvering unit to be as much as feasible the regiment (typically two or three battalions). Depending on circumstances, I do that at 1:100 or 1:200.

For more corps, I like the approach of dropping a strict figure to man ratio and using one big base (or tray) per brigade. That might be good for very big battles with multiple players and plenty of time, but for one on one I like to move up to divisions as basic units.

With multi-base units, movement trays are definitely an asset! Assuming one second each, 120 pieces per side means 4 minutes to move all; in 15 rounds, that adds up to an hour spent on the task.

With multi-base units, movement trays are definitely an asset! Assuming one second each, 120 pieces per side means 4 minutes to move all; in 15 rounds, that adds up to an hour spent on the task.

There are physical limits to a game, 120 elements per side would take a whole day to play a typical game. 50 to 75 elements gives you a game which you can easily complete in a 2-4 hour period.