"How will the US respond?" Topic

Well, you can't defeat all of their troops/militia/terrorists/proxies by air strikes alone

That wouldn't be a reasonable goal. In my vast powers as a TMP Grognard I would just blow stuff up that's important to the Iranian regime until they back off. No boots on the ground, just BOOM! Are we done yet? No. BOOM! How about now? Still no --ok, how about BOOM? How we doing here, do we need some more BOOM!, oops, got ahead of myself there…ready for quitsies yet???

I agree with this simple premise. I am sure we know where significant targets are located. I would want to limit CD, because I think there are significant pro US factions in Iran.

I would want to limit CD, because I think there are significant pro US factions in Iran.

Yep, makes sense -- just target Regime Control stuff -- Revolutionary and Secret Police units and HQs, regime leaders and their stuff, etc. I would avoid civil infrastructure a much as possible, but maybe do a less that total shut down of oil infrastructure – shut down the pipeline terminals at their oil ports, leave the oil fields alone, that kind of thing.

I would want to limit CD, because I think there are significant pro US factions in Iran.

Yes it appears there are many in Iran that don't like the fundamentalist theocracy they have to live under. There are even "Free Iranians" in the US, etc. They don't like the theocracy either, that is why many/most are not still in Iran.

Regardless, by targeting military, oil, nuke facilities, etc. targets you will limit civilian losses.

But as we see in Gaza, and elsewhere, in a conflict there will be CD. All you can try to do is mitigate it. As we know islamic terrorists and the Russians target civilians.

From Military.com :

US must strike Iran to protect US troops …

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Yes, we have reached the critical decision point. I am more scared about not doing it than doing it.

As long as some at the top believe they can make deals with Iran. E.g. the Nuke deal. Which is ridiculous. No real attacks will occur. Hopefully none of our troops will die.

Even today the US Green Zone(?) in Iraq was attacked including 60mm mortars[fairly short ranged]. No causalities, but the US is not happy with the Iraqis not protecting the US assets in country. Iraq gets upset if we go after Iran's proxy Shia militias in there ?

French frigate Languedoc shot down 2 Houti drones in the Red Sea near the Bab-el-Mandab.

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Up to 87 attacks on our forces

It may be that a major response from US military might be thought of as disproportionate, giving the Houthis a recruiting tool to fight the foreign attackers. I am not sure I agree, but taking the bait and killing these guys might have consequences we here are not considering.

We have no clue what the conversations with area heads of state are bringing up. We are not privy to Gaza intel, IDF plans, coordination with US forces plans. This does not mean I agree with no response, it just makes me wonder if these more or less nuisance drone strikes against effective and sophisticated combat systems are meant to draw us out.

Again, I think that more PR should be done to ratchet up pressure on Iran, then give them an ultimatum, then hit their leadership and military targets hard. They are the head of the beast.

They are a nuisance, until one is successful. Then they are no longer a nuisance to those who lost loved ones.

I don't think we can do anything that will improve terrorist recruitment. Islamic terrorists seem to have done well with recruitment since the 600's.

Strength against those who support them, seems to be the only thing that temporarily deters them, and that is never permanent. Jihad will always re-arise in that religion.

Yes … 87 attacks on US troops in Syria & Iraq. It is only a matter of time, before some of our troops are KIA. Then what will those in charge do … and with an upcoming election pending.

It may be that a major response from US military might be thought of as disproportionate, giving the Houthis a recruiting tool to fight the foreign attackers. I am not sure I agree, but taking the bait and killing these guys might have consequences we here are not considering.

That line of thinking is skewed IMO. They are already "mad" at the USA. So even if their ranks grow, what are they going to do? The USA can handle anything that these types throw at us. So, it is imperative that we strike back at military targets. Or the attacks will continue.

I pretty much agree. But I would really confirm the links to Iran, send the evidence to the UN, then go after the real problem, as I keep saying. I think the ME could be relatively quiet with Iran suffering the consequences of all of there acts they support.

send the evidence to the UN,

Based on current UN standards it won't make a difference. We see that time and time again, with many in the UN voting against the USA.

I think there is overwhelming evidence that Iran is behind the attacks on US Troops … And the Hamas barbarism of 07 Oct.

Yes, Iran and their proxies need to reap the whirlwind …

They are a nuisance, until one is successful. Then they are no longer a nuisance to those who lost loved ones.

Exactly. Retired Gen. Frank McKenzie:

" "Sometimes you've got to throw a pitch," McKenzie said in an interview. "You can't catch eternally, because eventually the law of averages is going to turn against you, and you're going to take a significant escalatory event on a ship, and then you're going to be forced into an even more significant level of response." "

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This one hit. Fortunately no causalities I heard.

Subject: Mister J. – مسٹر جے on X: "RED SEA – The moment of targeting the Israeli ship with Norwegian flag STRINDA by Yemen ..that was heading to Israel. t.co/6J7QXOlMYK / X


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Yes, as many Military leaders, like GEN McKenzie is correct. Anyone who shots at US troops need to be delt with severely. Again … With extreme prejudice.

Not ours…but our ally's. I think the international patrol force needs to agree on changing the ROE. This is not just the USN. As with Iran, the Houthis are a Death to America gang. Now we have a ship more or less destroyed. The patrol group needs to respond in kind, more than justified by the results of this attack.

"Payback is a muth'a !"

Subject: Hamas Senior Official Sami Abu Zuhri Threatens U.S., Britian | MEMRI


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At least 4-5 Hamas terrorists have caught in Germany and other Western Europe nations. The should be sent to Gitmo IMO …

With the USA's open borders and everybody from everywhere crossing into America with the Gov't's support. The FBI said the threat level is way up. With the holidays on the way and the USA catching e.g. 160+ on the terrorist watchlist. How many didn't get caught? All they have to do is steal a truck and start running over the innocent civilians. Just more incompetence demonstrated by our leaders.

I think that Mossad/Shin Bet will be hunting down the Hamas leaders that have been hiding out in other moslem nations.

Legion, we know of 8 million illegals since 2020. Estimates are at least another 5 million got aways.

"12,000 migrants cross Southern border in a single day Tuesday — highest total ever: sources"

I think in one spot, there was one border agent to 200 illegals.

No one knows the amount of potential terrorist who have gotten in! I have seen border stories showing military age Chinese men coming in. God only knows what that can lead to. What we have let happen on our borders is a future potential powder keg. I can put many stories of US citizens being killed, injured and or victimized by illegals…. None would be dead or injured if "illegals" were not allowed in. But I guess as long as it does not happen to those who benefit, nothing will change.

Case in point in Europe today

"Seven people have been arrested, security services including Mossad stated on Thursday afternoon, with three in Germany, three in Denmark, and one in the Netherlands taken into custody.

Seven people have been arrested, security services including Mossad stated on Thursday afternoon, with three in Germany, three in Denmark, and one in the Netherlands taken into custody.

German newspaper Die Welt meanwhile reports national intelligence services believe Islamists already in Europe received orders from Hamas leaders in Lebanon to dig up an "underground cache" of weapons "the terrorist organisation had set up in the past". According to the allegations, the would-be terrorists launched several expeditions intending to re-discover the buried weapons, intending to bring them back to Berlin ready for an operation.

It appears the weapons cache was never found, and the German police are still seeking it themselves. German authorities are reported to have said the arrested men were known longstanding Hamas members who had been under surveillance since last year, and who are thought to have participated in Hamas operations "abroad" before.

Some of those arrested have been named, including Lebanese citizens Abdelhamid Al A. and Ibrahim El-R., Egyptian Mohamed B. and Dutch citizen Nazih R."

Subject: Germany arrests over alleged Hamas anti-Jewish plot


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Chinese immigrants,illegals, tell this joke "Why go to the United States? Aren't you satisfied with your pay, your benefits and your life?" The immigrant responds: "Yes, I'm satisfied. But in the U.S., I will be allowed to say that I'm not satisfied."

24,000 Chinese escaped Xi this year, survived the Darien Gap death march, crossed the border and applied for asylum here. Many military aged – in China that will soon mean anybody who is still breathing.

I believe the border situation has been handled terribly by both the admin and certain right wing media looking for a return to power. Like the economy, a lot of info is just distorted or left out by both.

With the exception of MV thefts urban crime rates have been dropping back toward prepandemic levels this year. This does not mean that the huge influx of illegals is not a danger. They will always have some impact.

As most know, terrorist agents prefer crossing the northern border and arrests are up there. Terrorist arrests have increased along the southern border as well, but are still lower than the north. It appears agents don't like crossing in that mess anymore than anyone else.

This is also why American citizens bring more than 90% of the fentanyl coming into the US from Mexico through regular customs. They don't always get the scrutiny and it's incredibly easy to smuggle it.

But in general the illegals just want a better life. This admin does them no favors by ignoring the crisis and we bear the brunt of the cost. While I disagree that this is related to military aid to Ukraine, there is no reason for this to be allowed to continue.

Huge numbers of illegal aliens are overrunning our South and now Northern borders. A Gov't sanctioned invasion. These millions with not only change the USA but damage it. Even when CBP, ICE, LEOs, etc. can do their jobs. Sending many of these illegals back to where they came. As most do not qualify for asylum. But there will still be millions here most never becoming Americans. We all know who are to blame.

There is no doubt in my mind that Hamas terrorists and probably others are planning to attack targets in Europe and the US. As some have always been captured as noted. Our current leadership knows they will be protected from those attacks. However, the first move is to shut the border down and start rounding up every illegal alien they can find. Military age males from China and the Mid East.

5 USA troops get Purple Hearts for attacks in Iraq & Syria.
Just a matter of time sadly that some may come home in body bags. Just another failure of US top leadership …

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Subject: 10 IEDs found at US-Mexico border in cartel gunfight


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Saw that … But how many got thru ?

How many Americans will die with those IEDs along with the Chinese drugs brought in with the cartels. Or raped and murdered ?

Speaking of TBIs, the admin's response to the largest ever missile attack ever on US troops was to tell the Pentagon to downplay it as POTUS tweeted "All is well!" But it wasn't, 110 wounded but the news was slow-walked as it sounds like it has been more recently again. Feeble in both cases, and no response against Iran then either. Instead the idea was to pretend it never happened. Another opportunity to deal with Iran lost.

Some of those guys waited two years for Purple Hearts. That attack on US troops by Iran followed the killing of Suleimani in Iraq. But then, no response to injuries to so many US troops? No accounting for the scope and number of casualties? All hat and no cattle…

TBIs need to be acknowledged and taken seriously. I assume these guys are getting proper care. But to not acknowledge it is wrong, as it was in 2020.

Tort +1 And yes TBI is a big deal. These troops may suffer aftereffects years later.

This reminds me of the "scorpion and the frog". Have we brought the scorpions into our homes?

"Ahmad Musa Jibril, 51, a radical Islamist preacher who was born in Dearborn, is seen in videos posted on social media arguing that Muslims in the US should turn away from what he described as a watered-down "American-Zionist Islam" that ignores the idea of Jihad."

"In another video shared on a Telegram channel associated with Jibril, the hardline Palestinian-American preacher addressed the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, saying it should be viewed as a "wake-up call" for young Muslims in the US to start "normalizing" Jihad.

"Jihad must be a common, normal term on your tongues, on your social media, and in the mosques and elsewhere," Jibril said."

""You have seen that senile Pharaoh of our time, he has lost his mind of everything, except his loyalty and support for Jewish occupiers," the extremist cleric seethed, adding that the US "is more to blame for the genocide in Palestine that the occupying Jews.""

"He also suggested that Muslim mothers should "nurse their infants with the love of Jihad and the ambition to become a mujahid and a martyr.""

Subject: Radical Michigan imam urges Muslims to embrace Jihad


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Update as of yesterday:

"Since Oct. 17, U.S. troops in Iraq and Syria have been attacked 98 times by rockets, drones, mortars, and close-range ballistic missiles, according to the Pentagon. Forty-six of those attacks took place in Iraq and 52 in Syria."

All the hand wringing about collateral damage is a sign of moral unseriousness. The people you are fighting don't worry about it, and when we took war seriously, we didn't worry about it, either. For the most part, arguments about collateral damage are performative, and serve little purpose other than to demonstrate the fineness of the debater's moral weave. If you're serious about inflicting the kind of harm on your opponents that causes them to stop attacking you, collateral damage isn't a bug, it's a feature. An attack is most effective if it destroys more than your opponent expected to lose.

From a military point of view, I think soldiers do the best they can against this kind of amoral foe in this kind of setting. There will be CD, no other way to save future lives, and the people doing the fighting must protect themselves. But if the balance tips too far, the public outcry starts and the whole thing gets muddy and harder to win.

And I am trying to imagine the IDF guys who shot the hostages – tired,frazzled, anxious, looking to survive in a nightmare mission against a tricky foe in a pile of rubble. The hostages were surrendering, white flag, no shirts so less likely to have body bombs, 30 yards away. But you can't be sure of anything,and you are switched on 24/7. Very tough.

nine pound round +1

Tort + 1

But you can't be sure of anything, you are switched on 24/7.

Yes an urban insurgency with religious fanatics is one of the worst places an Infantryman can find himself AFAIK. The enemy does not wear uniforms and plans on dying trying to kill you and your comrades.

Who is to blame for these and any hostages' deaths ? Hamas and Iran.

Subject: US and Britain say their navies shot down 15 attack drones over the Red Sea


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Go NAVYs !!!!

Iran keeps running these drones through the Houthis, and we keep shooting them down. Some warships have systems that track and destroy drones as part of an automatic shield system for defense against drone attacks.

In this case, the Carney has now destroyed quite a number of drones targeting merchant shipping. Maybe this speaks well for this class, as old as it now is, being able to help defend against drone swarms in the Pacific.

Go Navy! That said drones are cheap, SAMs are expensive but not compared to a ship. My buddy was the Carney's CO a few tours back. He is beaming with pride. Unless you want to have troops on the ground in Yemen, there is no direct way to squelch this. Airstrikes may be satisfying and make for good cable news stories, but…

Having done that ground war in the desert thing, I cannot say it is recommended. Who volunteers to send your sons and daughters, expend our short wartime mmunitions, and pay the price in American blood and treasure?

Yeah, the answer to that is, "Congressional and executive staffers who don't have any skin in the game." The same people who got us into every other war since 1965- and the same people who never get called to account when those wars have the same outcome.

It's nice we're shooting down what comes at us, but that's just parrying. If you don't flatten the source and the buildings around it, they're not going to learn any important lessons. Your enemy doesn't cease to become your enemy until either 1) his lifeblood drains out, or 2) he stands weeping in the ruins you've created, full of conviction that he just made the worst mistake of his life.

Agree, and as I keep saying, time to deal with the real issue – Iran.

Long past time for Iran to be held accountable, they are funding a proxy war with Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis as pawns. So far this is all a win for them – Iran (Persian, Shia) are getting Arab Sunnis to do the dying in a fight against their other enemies, Israel and the U.S. Any deaths on either side are wins in the eyes of the Mullahs in Tehran.

It is high time Iran faced some real consequences for their actions. As I said in an earlier thread, there are four major Iranian oil refineries, and a oil transfer terminal complex on Kharg island. These could be eliminated in one night with B-2s operating from Diego Garcia and the Iranian economy (and funding for their proxies) collapses.

As for the Houthi proxies, Iran cannot be allowed to close a major shipping route with missiles and drones. The U.S. has two Burke-class DDGs in the area (Carney and Mason) with three others en route, along with NATO warships. Eliminating the shore-based radar facilities providing targeting for the missiles & drones would be a good place to start, along with any C3 and launch sites.

Unfortunately, Biden's calculus is more influenced by the youth vote than the lives of American servicemen. Anti-Israeli opinion in Americans aged 18-24 is truly saddening.

+1 Inch High.

I don't know if this is about the youth vote, hard to imagine them voting for the alternative. Right or wrong strategy/tactics, there is still sincere concern for servicemens' lives, IMO.

The Saudis would be happy if we solved this problem.

I don't know for sure what the risk of escalation is if we did this, but it seems minimal to me and there would be broad international support for keeping international waters safe.

LostPict, Inch High, Tort +1/ea.

And this just gets worse. Heard there were only 20 agents there to deal with this area on that day.

Subject: Border Patrol sources say Eagle Pass faces unprecedented migrant surge


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Yes, saw the footage on FOX. May not see it on any of the other stations ? Regardless … the gov't sanctioned open border is ignoring the Constitution and breaking the law. Seems some only follow the law if they agree with it.

10-12 million illegal aliens … what could probably go wrong ? Many will never get caught and deported. It will take years to even find and deport a small number of them.

Mass deportation is not practical, as you say. The first thing to do is to secure the border. We may never get a compromise on reform from the government, it seems, no matter who thinks they can fix it. The numbers are riding on conditions in Latin American. But it has to be secured no matter what the cause.

Most of the people already here will end up in the labor market in the low wage jobs that are going unfilled. There are business people in both parties who are well aware of this. Also, there is solving the border and there is using it for political gain. It sure is handy when some folks are running for election. Why fix it when it holds the keys to the bank?

Tort
"Most of the people already here will end up in the labor market in the low wage jobs that are going unfilled."

I disagree, most will end up on the public dole. In my opinion, that's why they are coming in most cases. We are giving them millions now. We have low end job help wanted signs all over our area. They are not filling these.

The reason there has been a huge influx (highest ever) in the last few months, is fear of the results of the 2024 election.

These people are coming from all over the world, not just Latin America. Africa, Asia, Central Europe, China, Asian countries, the Middle East, the Caribbean….

The Governor of Texas just tried to implement a law to stop it, and immediately one parties leaders complained and are trying to stop it.

"As a group of Texas and Hispanic Democrats demanded the US attorney general block what they called "the most extreme anti-immigrant state bill in the United States", signed by the Texas governor, Greg Abbott, on Monday, the president of Mexico and the American Civil Liberties Union also vowed to fight the law.
"Texas, we'll see you in court," the ACLU said.
In a court filing in Austin, Texas, plaintiffs represented by the ACLU – El Paso county, Texas, and two immigrant rights groups, Las Americas Immigrant Advocacy Center and American Gateways – sued Steven McCraw, director of the state department of public safety, and Bill Hicks, district attorney for the 34th district.

On social media, the ACLU said it aimed "to block Texas from enforcing the most extreme anti-immigrant law in the nation", which it also said was unconstitutional.
The law will allow Texas law enforcement agencies to arrest migrants deemed to have entered the US illegally and empower judges to order deportations. It is set to go into effect next year.
On Monday, congressional Democrats led by Joaquin Castro, from San Antonio, and including 11 other Texas representatives, Nanette Diaz Barragán of California (chair of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus) and eight other Hispanic representatives, published a letter to the attorney general, Merrick Garland.
"This legislation authorises state law enforcement officers to arrest and detain people and state judges to order mass deportations,"

"This bill is set to be the most extreme anti-immigrant state bill in the United States," the letter said. "It is clearly pre-empted by federal law and when it goes into effect will likely result in racial profiling, significant due process violations, and unlawful arrests of citizens, lawful permanent residents, and others."
The next day, the president of Mexico, Andres Manuel López Obrador, said his government was preparing to challenge the law, which he called "inhumane".
"The foreign ministry is already working on the process to challenge this law," he said, adding that Abbott "wants to win popularity with these measures, but he's not going to win anything, but he'll lose favor, because in Texas there are so many Mexicans and migrants"."

Abbott is trying to enforce the laws not being purposely enforced by the Federal government. Crossing either of our borders, is ILLEGAL.

So, yes I believe one party is to blame since 2020. One has to ask what is the real reason?

It is possible to find and deport them, but not until we completely close off our borders. We also have to put an end to "drop a baby on US soil, it's a citizen". You are here illegally, your children are illegal

I'm sure you and others will disagree with me, but I am past the point of compassion for illegals. Let them change their own countries! We did.

Deporting illegal aliens has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. It is about breaking US laws. If there were 10 million blonde haired blue eyed illegals e.g. Nordics and Eastern Europeans. The laws would still apply. And by the current US leaders sanctioning/allowing this to happen are breaking the law.

I don't have much compassion for people who break US laws. And most don't qualify for asylum, anyway.

We must get control of our borders as it was over 3 years ago. Just ask CBP, ICE, LEOs, etc. They are interviewed all the time … at least of FOX. The footage of 4500 illegal aliens lined up in rows awaiting to be in processed by a handful LEOs looks ridiculous.

Numbers like 5000 illegal aliens is about an Army Bde. And allowing them into the US is illegal. My fear is not only all the damage that can be done by illegal aliens. But those who are allowing this will never be punished.

And those who support this illegal alien invasion … Should have to house, feed, provide medical care, education, etc. about 4-5 of them. At least …