"Another Livery Question: Does order matter?" Topic

I'm not going to lose sleep over this, but it I'll ask anyway.

If the Herbert color is Azure and Gules (blue and red?), does that mean the Blue is on the wearer's right? Or does it matter?

And presumably the blue would be on the same side for the back. Half and half rather than quartered.

I'm pretty sure it does matter, but I can't answer your other questions!

I would assume the first colour took precedence and assuming it's displayed per pale (split down the middle into two sides) would be on the dexter side, one's right as you wear it or on the left to someone looking at you.

What BillyNM said, mate. Also the first named colour would be on top for standards, which were usually divided horizontally, as banners and similar flags sometimes were.

As for the coats I recently was convinced that "quartered" livery coats/jacks were rarer than unicorns and they'd be half-and-half. I'm not repainting mine. Yet.

Saw your answer about postage from the UK. P&P charges have gone insane, with the US being the worst for postage to Australia and Germany a close second. Then there's companies who apply regional pricing. The P&P issue definitely curtailed my hobby spending, and I won't deal with companies who regionally price. Luckily I have a "lead mountain"…..

The inserts in the Perry War of the Roses boxed sets as well as the back of the boxes are a great starting place for this. Each 4 page insert has some info about the troop type in the box, flags, and the liveries of many household troops. You can often find the images from the boxes on Google.

Generaly speaking it does matter.
The top colour should be on the wearer's right (our left as viewed) and the bottom colour should be on the wearer's left.

It should be noted, however, what happens on the back?
Strict rules of heraldry (as with flags and banners) dictate the the colours should reverse. i.e. the colours go over the wearer's shoulders and continue down his back.

However this gets complicated with, say, Beaufort (white blue) and Richard of York (blue white), as viewed from behind the wearer is now playing for the other team. This MIGHT explain why livery badges worn on the back tended to be bigger! It stopped you getting cut down by your own team from behind.

This may also explain why 'bends' (coloured bands worn diagonally) were worn. Edward IV issued red bends on 1461. It may also explain why Edward, George and young Richard switched to blue/claret (wine red) around the same time. Partly this removed the chances of confusion with Beaufort while changing the white side to the colour of dried blood emphasised the deaths of their father Richard of York and their brother Edmund at Wakefield in 1460. The new livery colour advertised their loss.

There is also the suggestion that Richard of York was lured out of Wakefield Castle (and to his death) due to false colours being displayed. If you get hold of a Beaufort white/blue livery jacket and wear it back-to-front it becomes a Yorkist blue/white!

I would add there are several suggestions about why Richard came down from Wakefield castle and this is only one of them.

My pictures of Sandal/Wakefield Castle are here: link

Barry

Warspite, informative as usual.

@advocate:
Thank you!