"If the average person went back to a pre-civilization era" Topic

…, how much could they realistically teach primitive humans?

"There's a sort of fantasy that if the average Joe (say, 25, college educated, middle class) went back in time they would be a genius and could pass along 21st century knowledge. Obviously there's a few issues with this. First being the language barrier.

Which leads me to ask (tangentially), how far back do basic concepts of sign language/body language communication go? Could I point to myself and then cup my hands outwards to signify "give"? How difficult would it be to begin trying to communicate in the first place to avoid just being killed?

On to the knowledge things. A few basic things that come to mind (assuming the communication issues are solved) are:…"

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Armand

The average 25 something would die a horrible death after he was raped if he went back to stone age times.

And that is his best case scenario.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Not to mention exposure to an array of pathogens completely foreign to the modern immune system. Yeah. Dead within a week.
Plus, no internet.

Having the knowledge of 21st century culture doesn't give you 21st century technology-- try building a computer when your most advanced technology is a wooden plow. I suspect that the "lucky" adventurer might become a field serf.

Puts me in mind of the main character in Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Author's Court. He reinvented the Gatling Gun and barbed wire.

I think the pathogens we would bring back would destroy any societies we might encounter.

"Having the knowledge of 21st century culture doesn't give you 21st century technology-- try building a computer when your most advanced technology is a wooden plow."

Not computers, but I could probably fashion gunpowder tech (like grenades) in a short time, followed by making iron or crude steel (I read a lot of stuff of how they did things in the old days… ;-) Just need time & materials…

You might get killed, you might die of disease, you might kill them with your diseases, all that would be a lottery, but if you didn't, as some observe on the link, you could teach people about e.g. levers or the wheel. I'm less convinced about smelting metals; the first trick to iron smelting is find your iron ore, not I suspect as easy as some might think. As to communication you do it by showing, but you also need to make the lesson relevant, you need to show things that have immediate relevance, tricky to show farming, even tricker to explain it, to nomadic hunter-gatherers who might not pass where the seeds were planted for another year.

Try this:

DIAMOND, Jared: Guns, Germs and Steel: The Fate of Human Societies.

The upshot being the Papuans being more intelligent and more likely to survive in their environment.

Stoppage – spot on!

Modern ‘civilised' people have absolutely NO clue how to survive without modern ‘stuff'. The primitive people would fall about laughing at the idiot…

Ha!

Armand

I suspect that many time travelers would fall hard on the rocks of hands-on vs book knowledge.

I know the theories behind a lot of things, but don't think I could make them. Not even sure I could describe how to make them well enough for someone else to do it.

Consider optical lenses. We all know that a convex lens is a magnifier, and can be used to make simple telescopes. But how many of us know how to make optical quality glass or grind lenses?

"the first trick to iron smelting is find your iron ore, not I suspect as easy as some might think."

Look up 'bog iron'. The Vikings used it, a forge was even found up in Newfoundland…

"Look up 'bog iron'". A good place to start if you have a bog, fine if you live in Ireland, not so hot if you're from Nevada.

They are doomed. There is no way to watch YouTube videos on "how to make shelter"

Best example from years ago, I was at an in-law gathering and being the introvert I am went for a walk in the nearby woods. I came back with a handful of Morels and wanted a bag to go get more. People who also wanted to go started to ask about getting lost, are there ticks, would there be wild animals!

That was some good risotto

I'd teach them how to make beer and they'll worship me as a god and send me all of their virgins as my wives.

Wolfhag

Many years ago I read a book with this premise where the main character was Polish and was sent to medieval Poland. The narrator pointed out that the Polish language hadn't changed all that much so the main character had no problem speaking with the locals.

Wolfhag for the winner… (smile)

Armand

"The average 25 something would die a horrible death"

I think the average anybody leaving in the devloped world would.

Well, I agree with the points above, but first, college educated is not the "average Joe" in the Western World, let alone in the rest of the world. Most of the WW, it puts you firmly in the top 50%, but not the top 25%. One standard deviation out would give you (roughly, different countries have different stats) roughly 2:1 without.

The Average Joe in many parts of the world is a sustenance farmer, rancher, or fisher, and would have decent survival and other practical skills. Many people who live in the WW also have those skills for various reasons.

That said, being immediately cut off from from logistic support would be a big problem. I consider myself to have reasonable primitive survival skills. However, cut off from my VA meds would render me incapable of applying them rather rapidly.

I've had a few colleagues who have said that the fear response over revived ancient viruses is overblown. (People who are specialists in those areas, very unlike me.) They all say there would be problems, and they would impact the third world much harder, but not a major catastrophe, mostly because we have things we could do and would do them. And disease resilience isn't as disease specific as people tend to think. Without specific disease protections and mitigations, we would likely get sick, but not die. One pointed out that even if you only got sick, getting and getting over dysentery multiple times over a couple of months is pretty much a death sentence.

The article's point is, ignoring rapid death, how much communication could happen and how much "advancement" could be applied. I will also assume that the person had something relevant to communicate.

I don't think communication is the hardest obstacle. Over time, I think you could work on a number of concepts and get them across. I think more basic behaviours that we still see in modern people would be the hardest part. Showing someone "advanced" hygiene techniques and communicating the concepts, including why, could be achieved. Convincing someone who didn't buy in to extra effort for something they don't believe will hurt them (true or not) is really hard.

An attractive young woman has all of the survival and communication skills needed to survive any historical period – as a sexist would say.

If you are a big guy with martial arts skills you could lead raiding parties on other tribes.

With chemical knowledge, you could create gunpowder. Then you will be their god of war.

Wolfhag

Wolfhag + 1

Armand

Wolfhag, assuming you can find pure enough sulphur, not I suspect, a given in a lot of areas, then you need to know how to blend the materials without getting spontaneous detonation. You did know that right, no, ah so the word that they'd use to worship the ex god of war is BOOM!

That's right Mark. As I stated, "with the right knowledge."
You'd let someone expendable do the dangerous stuff. Just generating a nice puff of smoke or inventing a match would gain favor with the king.

Make some dye, cut a feather quill and now you can start writing on an animal hide, clay, or a stone until someone invents paper. Now teach them English and you have a written language.

Make candles and clay pottery. Show them some agriculture techniques like fertilizer and crop rotation, and other things like marijuana, opium, and magic mushrooms if they have not already discovered them.

Teach them the concept of Zero and make an abacus board.

Teach them how to play DBM and you have the strategy for their generals.

Now they are on the fast track to dominate the geographic area with a military, trade, written language, and accounting.

Old farts like us would have no problem rising to the top. The typical 25-year-old Westerner would probably want to introduce things like drag queens, DEI, and gender affirmation and wind up as a human sacrifice. Hmmm, does not sound like such a bad idea even for today.

ONLY KIDDING!!!!!

Wolfhag

"…Now teach them English and you have a written language…"

Why not french?… Or spanish… or Italian?… (smile)

Armand

English is the single language in all human history that has the power and flexibility to misrepresent any concept. And it has the honorable pedigree of being 50% Latinate, 50% Teutonic, 17% other stuff, and -3% Welsh.

Give me a break, I hardly know English.

Wolfhag

Ha!Ha!…

Armand