"Overcoats or no overcoats, that is the question." Topic

Hello everyone,

During the Napoleonic Wars (except during the Polish campaign in 1806-1807 and the retreat from Russia in 1812 where this became widespread), it seems that only the French and Russian infantry fought in overcoats in all temperatures.

The Prussians only wore it at the beginning of 1814 and the infantry of other nations are never shown wearing overcoats in combat.

Do you have additional information?

Nobody plays infantry from this era in overcoats ?

didnt 'The Guard 'usually wear overcoats going into combat?

Nobody plays infantry from this era in overcoats?

I've met the rascal 'Nobody' and his influence is wide, particularly when it is soooo easy to paint units in great coats.

@mildbill

Usually I don't know ?

But at the Eylau and Waterloo battles, I think so.

@McLaddie

"soooo easy to paint units in great coats" well said but that's not my mentality, I'm only looking for historical realism, on the other hand many paint units without overcoats because they find it prettier, but that's not what what I'm looking for…

Not sure where this is coming from, but I painted some French, Russian and British in overcoats to add variety to the army.

@Murvihill

I'm dealing with historical realism, tell me a single battle where the British infantry fought in overcoats?

Paskal:

The 49th Foot wore greatcoats throughout the action at Chrysler's Farm on November 11, 1813.

The 89th also had them but were ordered to take them off prior to the action.

Can't speak to any Continental fighting however if that's what you were looking for.

One of wellington's General Orders in the Peninsula and Waterloo Campaigns was to send the overcoats to the rear and stored. Supposedly to lighten their load. Applies to the Brits and I believe the KGL and Hanoverian units.

@P Carl Ruidl
What would interest me most is 1815.

@Camcleod
Very interesting, but particularly annoying because all the figures of this infantry generally have it on their backpack.

A blanket rolled up, not an overcoat

From "The general orders of Field Marshal the Duke of Wellington ..
by Wellington, Arthur Wellesley, Duke of, 1769-1852; Gurwood, John, 1790-1845,
Publication date 1837
Publisher London, Printed by W. Clowes and sons" PDF link

General Order – Frenada, 25th April 1813
link
"12. As the British and German infantry of the army will be provided with tents during the ensuing campaign, the Commander of the Forces is desirous that the great coats of the soldiers should be left behind, in order to relieve them from a part of the weight which they would otherwise be obliged to carry, and that they should carry only their blankets.

13. The following arrangements are to be made immediately for the care and preservation of the soldiers' great coats : —

14. The great coat of each soldier must be well cleaned, and his name and number and the letter of his company marked upon it.

15. Those of each company are to be packed in bales, each bale containing twenty great coats ; and the name of the Officer commanding the company, and the letter or number of the company, and the number of the regiment, must be marked on the bale.

16. Orders will hereafter be issued for the disposal of the great coats of the regiments in store.

17. The Officers commanding regiments will make a requisition upon the Commissaries attached to their brigades for linen cloth in which to pack the great coats which the Commissaries are hereby ordered to supply."

General Order – Bruxelles, 31st May 1815
link
"1. The Commander of the Forces is very desirous of relieving the infantry soldiers of the British army from a part of the weight which they now carry; and he therefore desires that the name and number of each man, and the letter of his company, may be marked upon his great coat, with a view of its being taken into store ; and that the great coats may be packed in packages, each containing twenty great coats.

2. The packages must be marked each with the number of the regiment, the letter of the company, and the words, — 'Great Coats belonging to Captain __________'s company.'

3. This must be completed throughout the army by the 4th of June, on which day the Commissaries attached to brigades are to send the great coats to the stores at Ostend.

4. The Commissaries attached to brigades of infantry are to supply the regiments, upon their requisition, with the means of packing the great coats, as above ordered.

5. The Commissary of Stores is to take charge of the great coats, and to give a receipt to the Officer who gives them over to him.

6. These orders are to be communicated to, and obeyed by, all regiments on their landing."

For many Austrian Landwehr battalions, the overcoat *was* the uniform. If you were to look at a battalion of some and they removed the coats, they would just be shirted or in some cases their civilian clothes they brought with them I believe. This wasn't always the case. Some were wealthier and less hasty, either provided with uniforms or supplying their own.

Indeed it seems the Continental armies broadly had a much more open thought to the overcoat being the uniform than just a device of weather protection.

For my French, I use a few different systems across the 32 man battalions to denote somewhat who they are, because at my scale flag numbers are just too hard to read.

Veteran – Mixed trousers and the stock white wool. Although I still keep the colors pretty pastel.
Regular – All white pants
Raw – Overcoats

In case you are curious, I denote regiments by musician colors. Historically accurate when possible. 1-3 is officer plume. 1st all red Chef (stretch on foot, but eh) 2nd a red tip and third white adjutant. Any 4th depots are also white plume, but are already denoted by their coats.

Only I know them unless you look at the bottom, but it is a better system than 60 matching French battalions. And more fun.

Is there any source that the greatcoat was the uniform of the Austrian Landwehr? I did not find any reference on this, you speak of 1813?

Apologies, I am talking 1809. And no I could not give you an exact page number, but just gleaning from Gill etc over time.

There is a full series of contemporary prints on Markus Stein's webside at napoleon-online.de

napoleon-online.de

please visit

uniformenportal.de

look at

link

it shows a very diverse dress of the Landwehr and is contradicting in my opinion at all that the greatcoat was the uniform of them, also Acerbi is covering this subject in competent detail, Prince of Essling supplied the download of this work elsewhere on this forum

Yeah, I have seen those plates. I have two on my wall.

I think you are skipping a lot of my post. I never said greatcoat was the official uniform of all landwehr.

For many Austrian Landwehr battalions, the overcoat *was* the uniform.

Well as a non native speaker this seemed for me that the overcoat was the uniform coat of Austrian Landwehr, as you expressed above, in case I misunderstood I apologise.

I am happy to see that you rather agree that it was not the case in 1809 backed by contemporary images as well as Acerbi's finding, also Landwehr or any other military unit in general would not fight in shirt sleeves there this was regarded as underwear.