"Shire Levy Livery Question" Topic

Would shire levy wear livery at all, have a particular one for their shire, or just wear the livery of the Noble that raised them?

Also, same question for Town Militia? (Or is that really the same thing?)

There's the Thane of the Shire, which is pretty much ceremonial, and there's the Master of Buckland, which is not quite the Shire. There are, obviously, old families--Tooks and Brandybucks, for example--presumably with land because what else is there as a source of wealth in the Shire, but a Shire nobility is your idea, not Tolkien's. (And the Shire doesn't have subordinate shires, but four farthings.)

So I'd say you were pretty much on your own, and welcome to fantasy wargaming. Normally, I'd think all the uniformity of Lexington and Concord, but if you want to distinguish bands of hobbitses, and still stay pretty close to Tolkien, I'd say dyed feathers in different colors, and possibly standards for those not lurking in ambush.

Mostly, I'd expect invading halfling country to be like marching through a swamp filled with mosquitos. After a few days, half your people would be dead, and you still wouldn't have seen anyone. Good warfare, but a poor tabletop.

Sorry. Cranky this evening. Focus on the second paragraph.

Ummm…

…War of the Roses Board.

But thanks for the quick response!

Cheer up this evening!😂

Ouch! My apologies.

Most of my WotR material has been passed on--couldn't make a satisfactory game of it--but I think you'll find there weren't "shire levies" as such. Towns were given troop quotas, and might very well have some coat or jacket provided by the town, possibly carrying an appropriate standard. Rural areas were levied by the landowners, who were usually noblemen. They might be wearing livery. (They'd almost certainly be wearing some sort of badge, but that's not helpful at miniature wargaming scales.) These days, it's often felt there would be a standard with livery colors and a matching badge. But you really need to talk to the Lance and Longbow Society.

From a game standpoint, it would depend a little on scale. In the smaller scales--say 15mm and under--they'd either all be in livery or there would be enough livery jackets scattered through to make the allegiance of the unit/stand clear. Recommend no more than three liveries per army, none duplicative. Otherwise, you get the same sort of mess you had in real life.

There's records of towns giving levies a livery, some a mentioned in the WotR Osprey, but I don't know how many. The following are taken from the main colour/s on town and shire banners around the time of the wars, which are illustrated in Wars of the Roses Heraldry by M.R. Jones and R. Pritchard (I got mine from Caliver, I think). Whether a levy was called and a whether a livery was issued- either coats or just ribbons to tie as sashes, around the arm or on headgear- it doesn't say.

Red- Manchester (white under Stanley), Kendal (Y), Salisbury (Y), Winchester (L), Colchester (L), Dover (L).

White- Wigmore(Y), Dunwich (Y), Bedford (L), Framlingham (Y), Woodstock (L), Derby.

Red and blue- Honour of Clare (Y), Ipswich (Y), Arundel (Y), Warden of the Cinque Ports (Y), Exeter (L).

Blue- Crown lands in Chester (L), Marlborough (L), Lavenham (L), Berkhamsted (possibly blue and orange- L).

Green- Abingdon (L), Sevenoaks (Y), Stroud (Y), Reading (Y).

There's a lot more, mate- 97 in the "City/Towns Loyalty" section. If you can get the book, possibly through a library, it can give you some ideas.

Wouldn't the shire levy be under the control of the sheriff of the county?

I don't know, advocate. You'd normally expect that, but how many sheriffs were dismissed or decided to leg it when the crown changed hands? Or could a local noble decide to take matters into their own hands?

The question of livery and telling troops apart has bothered me as well. Looking on YouTube to see what others have done, the approach I am leaning towards is to use selected colors for my war bands. Red and yellow for my primary war band with dark blue/yellow and blue/white for the next two. It's more about easy identification on the table than historical accuracy.

Dal's right, I think. The operating principle is that if you farm Percy land, you wear Percy livery and show up when the family sends for you. If the sheriff has a problem with that, it's time for a new sheriff. This is bastard feudalism--much more like The Godfather than like the modern bureaucratized "salute the uniform and not the man" state.

And I agree with the Colonel. As an example, with a little research, you can come up with three liveries all of which have blue and none of which have red for one army, and three liveries all of which have red and none of which have blue for the opposition. Trying to nail every noble family for every battle will drive you nuts.

"Trying to nail every noble family for every battle will drive you nuts."

Yep. That's what I'm trying to do!

Robert, what you are describing is feudalism plain and simple, without the bastardy (that I believe referred to the use of "livery and maintenace" – paying in cash for support, rather than in land). As to the "shire levies" I was being quite legalistic. Lords didn't control whole counties, but the sheriff (often himself a local notable) would have influence over many of the smaller landholders. Moreover, many campaigns were of short duration, with a rebel – often an exile – trying to overthrow the establishment. I'd say there was scope for local bureaucracy to still work in many cases.
As an aside, I'm not actually sure what a "shire levy" was in legal terms, so that's something for me to investigate.

I'm not actually sure what a "shire levy" was in legal terms

It seems to have been a limited type of conscription. From what I've been able to find out it was more common/important before the WotR, and mainly used on the Border Marches. It was also used during the 100YW.

The crown usually called for the levy, but it seems some nobles or officials could also call it out to deal with local issues (bandits, revolts or raids from Wales and Scotland). Most of my books are in storage, but from memory the levies don't get mentioned all that often, even in the Freezywater campaign books. Whether they were not present, just ignored or used for other tasks (securing towns or trains?) I don't know. No doubt there was also the possibility that the levy was raised to protect an area from the contending armies' scourers and foragers.

PS There's a short wiki article I found. Basically it was the evolved Anglo-Saxon fyrd and, as noted by advocate, supposedly under the command of the sheriff.

When I model my 15mm Shire Levy units (36 figures per unit) I go for generally muted colours overall but include a few in 'semi livery' to suggest that one or two villages or one small estate have turned out in some sort of livery colours.

For muted colours I use browns, greens, madder red, pale blue, etc, but then make a few split tunics in red/white or white/blue, etc. I use three figures per one 40mm wide base (DBA/DBM/DBMM style bases but playing under Bills, Bows and Bloodshed) but I will put two figures in that livery on one base and a single figure in the same livery on a separate base. So 36 figures may have two livery colours (3 figs each) but spread across the 12 bases. The rest are mixed or might include a single figure in third livery just for variation.

If you are into 15mm Peter Pig are producing new figures at shire/levy level while the Donnington New Era 100 Years War 15mm produce some nice un-armoured figures which work in nicely as well.

Barry

Barry

@Dal Gavan:
Be careful with Jones and Pritchard. While a weighty tome it does include some outright howlers – see page 40 where the Beauchamp Earl of Warwick is described as the Neville Warwick the Kingmaker. Clearly wrong. They also show the 16th century Percy colours as 15th century.

Some of their livery colours are also at variance with those I have found. They say Clifford is white/yellow (Page 19) while my records show white only.

For towns I say in my new book:

TOWN CONTINGENTS:
1455 Coventry – green and red bends
1461 Rye – red
1463/64 Nottingham – red plus white fustian 'to make letters' on the garments (a letter N??)
1470 Canterbury – red
I have seen Coventry interpreted in a drawing as a green livery jacket with red diagonal bends upon it. I now believe it was a simple sash type bend – see Bends and Sashes below. Such bends would be cheaper and easier to make, especially for a quick campaign. The good burgesses of Coventry would not want to stretch the public purse too far.

Barry

@Robert Piepenbrink:
The term shire levy first appears in WRG WOTR army lists 30 years ago or more and refers to troops raised under commissions of array – shire levies or the 'posse commitatus' in the West Country.

I think it was the use of the word 'shire' which confused you into thinking this was hobbits! :). smile

Barry

G'day, Barry.

Thanks for the heads up, mate. The book covers a lot of ground not covered elsewhere, in particular the city and town banners. Trying to track them down on the net is a pain, and what you find may not be the same as what was used in the WotR.

I had picked up a few that were questionable, such as using green instead of blue for Roos' livery, Percy's tricolours and John Clifford's white over yellow. I put it down to other family members' livery being used, or using the visible colours from artefacts where the pigment has faded/colour shifted. I didn't think that they may be using liveries from out of the period (which also explains the same mistake about the Percy livery in the Osprey- but I'm not repainting my 15's!).

I've pretty well finished my figures (15mm and 28mm) using the Freezywater books, but there's always the temptation of just one more unit…… Which reminds me that I should finish Audley's archers before the dust layer gets too thick.

PS- What new book, Barry? Do you mention it on your blog?

@Dal Gavan:
This one:

link

About 45,000 words have been completed plus the front cover (shown).

15,000 words to come plus photo permissions and an ISBN number.

Expected publication spring 2024. Would have been this year but there have been issues in my private life.

Barry