"Hamas vs Israel... again" Topic

"For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from"

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Quartermass, when you have so many on your borders all hating you and trying to exterminate you, try balancing them off against each other forever. Not going to work because you can't appease Communists or terrorists. ROE like the US has always employed, starting in Vietnam, is deadly. It must be Total War if you are going to into the breach against either! Thankfully, Israel and the IDF are apparently going to start employing that policy on these animals.

MJ and Legion you are right. I had not considered that the Squad has spoken out with no regard for Americans killed and captured, which I consider an act of war, worthy of military response at our discretion.

I may be obsessed with the USN here because the rise of Hezbollah power began after Beirut in 1983. I do not feel that was ever resolved by the US. I would give these guys one warning. "Don't" comes to mind. But I would drop the hammer if they blink the wrong way.

We are all sick of this @#$&. It goes far beyond the bounds of civilized life. And you cannot talk to people who would blow themselves up to kill you.

Perhaps the Squad would like to explain their position on the American casualties to the people who elected them. And perhaps the far right members of Congress would consider this as well and get back to work. Or maybe it's "start working".

Antisemitism is not a left wing attribute to people in Pittsburgh. It can be espoused from any part of the spectrum. It has a long history with right wing extremists like the Klan, and I am fine with exposing it on the extreme left as well.

But the story is in Gaza right now. As Ukraine has created a chance to neutralize the danger of Putin, here is a chance to neutralize major terrorist parties. Let's make the deaths of all the victims mean something.

For those with issues with the "Pundit", CNN did talk about these photos, but would only show the first. This has the 3 released.

I believe photos like we have in this TMP post, the video of terrorist cutting the Americans head off slowly with a knife and full 9/11 coverage, complete with our citizens leaping from the towers instead of being burnt alive, should be mandatory viewing in every school in this country for children 13 and up, every 9/11 anniversary. Should also be mandatory on TV as well. Then maybe there would be less ill-informed pro Hamas protests on our college campuses.

Subject: Office of Prime Minister Netanyahu Releases Horrifying and Disturbing Photos of Babies Murdered and Burned by Hamas Terrorists That Was Shown to Anthony Blinken | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft


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Tort

"Perhaps the Squad would like to explain their position on the American casualties to the people who elected them. "

It Would not matter to those who elected Omar and a few of the others. The majority of their districts are Muslims.

right wing extremists like the Klan

How is the Klan "right wing" when they advocate the upending of the American Constitutional system and the installation of an ethno-nationalist super government?

What does "right wing" even mean anymore? It's a hold-over SEATING CHART from the French Diet in the early 19th C. At that time traditionalist groups (monarchists, the main bodies of the Church and so on) sat in seats on the "right wing" of Assembly Hall in which they met. Reformist movements and socialists sat in the left side, or "left wing" of the Assembly Hall. At that time the "left wing" included people who supported overt Socialism and also people who supported the extremely radical concept of American-style Constitutionalism and a Federal Republic.

What does the American "right wing" want today? They want traditionalist American-style Constitutionalism that back in the day had them sit on the "Left wing." But because they support traditionalism -- American Constitutionalism the old seating charts says they are Right Wing for supporting decentralization of power, smaller constitutionally focused and proscribed government, devolution of power from the federal government back to the States and the People, an end to Crony Capitalism and roll back of the Administrative State. Which is pretty radical.

And no where in that view is there a place for the KKK. You cannot find *any* "right wing conservative" who espouses antisemitism or racialism, or who supports the KKK or white nationalism.

On the other hand, the Democrat party and its allies are riddled with over antisemites, racists and Hamas apologists. And that's a problem that hampers a cohesive response in the face of barbarism and butchery. This traditional alliance between Socialists who hate the West and Islamists who hate the West.

"Stunning video produced by Hamas. They are openly mocking the West. They used a $100 USD million water pipeline project paid for by the EU, and turned the pipe into Missiles to launch at Israel. t.co/8GzozfqrFZ / X


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Hamas is awful, so is the Israeli government. There are no good guys in this. I feel sorry for the civilians caught in the middle, Israeli and Palestinian.
Most of the bigman posters in this thread who are decrying civilian casualties were quite happy with the usa bombing schools/hospitals/weddings and calling for glass carparks, with a total disregard for civilians.
As for why Israel were caught by surprise, Your 45 sold Israeli info to the Russians and the Saudis.

"Antisemitism and support for terrorism is a Left wing thing."
If you want to do any more than preach to your own choir, try and be a little more truthful and balanced.

Nope SB, no sense in even getting into traditional far right extremism and far left extremism. I spent lot of time learning the difference years ago and I am not about to accept the revisionist version you describe, which conveniently turns the whole thing on its head to fit a particular far right world view that is not even necessary. One side bad, other side good is not reality. Extremes are a minority.

The "Democratic" party is riddled with Americans. Both parties display extremes.

Disclaimer: we have discussed this before. I am only referring to extremism in either party. If you went to school and were taught that the Klan was a left wing extremist group, I don't really have anything to say to that.

How would we know? the power is cut.

Gee, I wonder why nobody came out to protest Hamas in Gaza?

Disclaimer: we have discussed this before. I am only referring to extremism in either party. If you went to school and were taught that the Klan was a left wing extremist group, I don't really have anything to say to that

LOL! You're the one who tried to call the Klan "right wing" extremists, as if that's a meaningful description. I see the left in over-time spin mode trying desperately to make Hamas' actions, and their many years of support, out to be the "right wings" fault.

So what is "right wing," what is the context?

You're starting down the path of moral relativism -- "oh there are extremists on both sides." Really? What does that mean? Who are the "both sides" and why are they morally equivalent? Who started the KKK btw? The Democrats. Who broke the KKK? The Republicans. And I have to go down this road.

Picture that it's 1939 and the American Bund is celebrating the Nazi invasion of Poland. That's where we are.

Right now I see Hamas as the 2023 incarnation of the ethno-nationalist Nazis, replete with Einsatzgruppen, butchering Jewish men, women and children. There's even a horrific photo from a Kibbutz of several charred corpses of young tween boys who were shoved into a dumpster and burned to death by Hamas execution squads.

Then we have Americans and Europeans SUPPORTING this, knowing the atrocities of Hamas and still choosing to rally in support of the Hamas Nazis and their execution squads, waving the Palestinian flag and Hamas banners, chanting, singing and dancing their approval.

These are Nazis in our midst. These flags may as well be Swastika banners. And they far, far out number the tired hollow booyeman of the KKK.

The "Democratic" party is riddled with Americans.

Oh…sure…many good Americans but it is also the party of Americans who are racist a33holes, antisemites and anti-Western nihilists. Who hate their own country and as we are seeing with the Chicago City Council, The "Squad" of Congresspersons, the Democrats Socialists of America who are deeply influential in Leftist Politics. Black Lives Matter applauds the massacre of Israeli peace hippies at an outdoor rave concert -- the same BLM that has been given millions in corporate $$, lauded applauded and courted by the Democrats who even "took a knee" in the Capitol rotunda in their honor.

So stop playing this game! What do we do about this?

Just an FYI

Subject: 'Day of Jihad' Sparks Warnings Americans to Stay Inside


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Most of the bigman posters in this thread who are decrying civilian casualties were quite happy with the usa bombing schools/hospitals/weddings and calling for glass carparks, with a total disregard for civilians.

I don't know what a bigman is, but I am overweight. Is there a chart somewhere for me to see if I am a bigman. What ? Do you not like fat people ? Not very woke, DEI, etc. of you.

Back OT – I don't think anyone is calling for WMDs. As I have said before, if the USA was not concerned about CD, there would places on the planet that would look like the Dark Side of the Moon. Without the use of WMDs. However, yes in war time in a conflict sometimes civilians get killed. But the USA does not kill non-combatants as a policy, but it still happens. Or murder and butcher them as Hamas did.

FWIW – I medevac'd a few guys with holes in them, etc. when I in was in the Army, '79-'90. No one generally wants to spill blood unless they have to … to save you and your comrades lives. Unless you are the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah, AQ, ISIS, etc. then you are just murders and butchers.

But I am pretty sure about this, after being a former Infantryman for over a decade. The IDF will want payback, for what Hamas did to their civilians and comrades. I think the Bible says something about, Reap the whirlwind" … Hamas will find out. The IDF will not give them a pass on this crime against humanity …

On the topic of the Klan, the most recent Republican nominee for Speaker, he just withdrew his candidacy this evening, described himself as "David Duke without the baggage".

Both parties have way more than their fair share of idiots. For every "Democratic Socialist" embarrassment on one side there is a Q-Anon adjacent fool on the other. Both parties are failing to find a moderate center.

Talib and Cori Bush who had the most offensive of the initial reactions to the horrors stand a very good chance of being censured on a bipartisan basis as the White House and multiple members of their own party have called their behavior repugnant. That will not affect their chances of re-election unless they lose in the primary. Talib's district is not majority Muslim but it has a large percentage whereas Bush is in a very gerrymandered district that will elect a liberal candidate but might vote her out in the primary.

Mjkener
"Quartermass, when you have so many on your borders all hating you and trying to exterminate you, try balancing them off against each other forever"

Its simply not that simple
You obviously didn't brother to read the article.
I guess its not really bothering with a nuanced conversion.

My heart gos out to the Israeli & Palestinian victims of this insane war.

And may the instigator's burn in hell,I see you.

And no where in that view is there a place for the KKK. You cannot find *any* "right wing conservative" who espouses antisemitism or racialism, or who supports the KKK or white nationalism

I am not talking about them. I am talking about extremists right or left not worthy of our support. I can find extremists like those guys at Charlottesville – or maybe they took a wrong turn when they ended up at the Unite the Right rally. And then I can find gangs of extreme left wingers trying to wreck the city of Portland, burn down all kinds of buildings while allied with opportunistic criminals, in the name of socialist political goals.

What to do?

I have already acknowledged that I was wrong to ignore the Squads comments. As members of Congress they should be condemning the killing and capture of American citizens. They are public officials who took an oath. This transcends freedom of speech. I just was not paying attention to them and did not connect the dots. I have never taken them seriously and just avoid them.

We can agree to disagree on the semantics, but I think you might disagree. There is a traditional view of the topic supported by historical documentation that I am not willing to depart from.

I do not like the protesters, can barely stomach the coverage. But they have a right to speak as long as they are law abiding. I would prefer that they not be the main focus of the news with so much else going on. I would rather focus on the military options to get the job done and get rid of the perpetrators once and for all.

@SBminisguy and some others

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the blanket equation of leftist and anti-Semitic.
Not least because many Jews were and are leftists, as I illustrated with the drastic example of David Ben Gurion.
To make a long story short, you are welcome to use my comments as a quarry for your worldview or political direction, as long as it serves my interests, the protection of Jewish life in the long run.

And no, I am not a leftist.
I have individual views and beliefs on a thousand different issues that come from the history of my background, my personal life experiences, studies, long reflection, and a choice of a set of principles.
And I value all of that higher than any affiliation to religion, class, race, nation or party.
Especially, higher than party affiliation.

Which is probably why I am not taken seriously by everyone, but generally get along well. Vain as I am, I even imagine that I am appreciated by many because of it, even though I do not agree with them.

I think a certain Congresswoman famous for her concern over Jewish space lasers causing wildfires in California illustrates that antisemitism is not limited to any one party.

Jewish space lasers

Now, that is something I like.
I should probably devote a little more time to U.S. domestic politics.
I see great comedic potential there.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the blanket equation of leftist and anti-Semitic.

That's fine, i've met a number of antisemitic and racist leftists, which I differentiate from liberals. I guess it all depends on the spectrum, doesn't it? And I think Left and Right is a stupid way to categorize human political movements because it's dated to a specific period of French history, and related to either people protecting the status quo of monarchy (the right) or people who supported a spectrum of non-monarchist ideologies (the left) which at the time include American Constitutionalism.

So what does this mean in the context of today? How do you define right and left? Why does Tortorella insist the KKK is "right wing" -- what status quo are they supporting? It's not American Constitutionalism. And it's a diversionary tactic. The number of actual racist KKK and White Supremacists left in America would give you trouble booking out an IHOP for a breakfast meeting, but they are being brought by the Left and Liberals as a moral equivalency play to distance themselves from their own actions.

The Left number in the millions in America. The Left control higher education, which is why you have so many professors and student groups supporting Hamas. The Left control groups like Black Lives Matter which was enshrined by the Democrat party, feted by Corporate America and given tens of millions of virtue-signaling $$ -- and Black Lives Matter supports Hamas.

I do not like the protesters, can barely stomach the coverage. But they have a right to speak as long as they are law abiding.

Yes they do -- but why are there so many of them? Can you imagine this as September 1939 and people coming out to rally in support of the German invasion of Poland? That's basically what they are doing. What deep sickness have we bred in our society through our institutions that thousands of people in city after city rally behind Hamas.

This nihilism should be tolerated any longer. We should not fund universities and groups that promote and defend these views. That create hate and racial division, and support the destruction of their own society. They can say whatever they want to -- but they don't deserve professorial tenure or donations from Nike to do so.

Jewish space lasers causing wildfires

She must have been drunk and playing too much Illuminati from Steve Jackson Games. What a stupid thing to say.

Putin's fingerprints are all over the Hamas attack

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Armand

are they any Palestinians that condemned the Hamas razzia?

Fox News found one, a Palestinian who chronicles atrocities on both sides.

But most in Gaza seem to be complicit with Hamas.

Can you imagine this as September 1939 and people coming out to rally in support of the German invasion of Poland?

A few days early, but Germans tend to come to the party too early rather than too late, even if they have U.S. citizenship.
Madison Square Garden, Febuary 20,1939:

I highly doubt in September '39 these people, horrified by their own actions, renounced their delusion.
Especially not considering the Gallup surveys back then regarding the opinion of wider parts of the US population to the events in Europe.
How did Public Opinion About Entering World War II Change Between 1939 and 1941? – On Americans and the Holocaust

Putin's fingerprints are all over the Hamas attack

Which may be or just an artificial narrative.

I am more inclined to the thesis of indirect connections arising from opportunities for different interest groups from greater chaos, as I indicated with the quote I made earlier, from the Marines Manual.
In contrast, Mark Galeotti, for example, thinks the affair is more likely to get Putin into trouble and make it harder for him to navigate.

Putin has been blindsided by the Israel attack – On The Spectator

But most in Gaza seem to be complicit with Hamas.

If you were forced to live in an overcrowded pig sty, which is controlled by murderous nutters who think they have a right to "execute" anyone who disagrees with them, how vocal in your condemnation of those <SNIP> nutters would you be, Bill?

Or, like most people in that situation, would you keep your head down, try to shelter and protect your family and hope that your kids may grow up to have better options than you do?

Filth with guns "supervised" the so-called elections that brought Hamas to power. There was no question of what the result would be, so I'd not be saying that Hamas has full support of the population of Gaza.

PS Arjuna, would you please stop trying to inject some reason into this debate? You're spoiling the ambience!

Arjuna, would you please stop trying to inject some reason into this debate?

I was called from the abyss, I answered the call.
What must be done, must be done.
What is done, can't be undone.
I will wash my hands in innocence.

"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen
(probably the greatest Jewish musician since David)

"Filth with guns "supervised" the so-called elections that brought Hamas to power. There was no question of what the result would be, so I'd not be saying that Hamas has full support of the population of Gaza.'

Bear in mind 40% of the population wernt even alive during the last election and a further 20% would have been to young to vote in 2006.

Subject: Hamas Militants Had Detailed Maps of Israeli Towns, Military Bases and Infiltration Routes – WSJ


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Subject: Apollo CEO Marc Rowan on UPenn op-ed: We are at Penn a bastion of 'preferred' speech – YouTube


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Subject: Harvard President Claudine Gay Fiercely Condemns Hamas, Rejects Calls to Punish Students for Israel Statement | News | The Harvard Crimson


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Subject: As Students Face Retaliation for Israel Statement, a ‘Doxxing Truck' Displaying Students' Faces Comes to Harvard's Campus | News | The Harvard Crimson


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"According to witnesses, he shouted "Allahu Akbar", or "God is greatest", during the attack."

Subject: Teacher killed in France school stabbing – BBC News


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Also knifing of an Israeli embassy employee in China, but not confirmed as Islamic.

Subject: 'Day of jihad' sees anti-Israel protests around the world after former Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal told Muslims to 'take to the streets'


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Talib and Cori Bush who had the most offensive of the initial reactions to the horrors stand a very good chance of being censured on a bipartisan basis as the White House and multiple members of their own party have called their behavior repugnant.

Yes I think they believe they can say what they want as they are women of color, and one is moslem. So, no one will say anything for fear of being labeled as sexist, racists, islamphobic, etc. I'm opinion them and the rest of the squad as well as some others in Congress keep getting away with this progressive socialist woke activists narrative. They are not leaders … but they still get re-elected ?

You realize there is a difference between "censure" and "censor," right? Members of Congress can be (and have been) censured without being censored.

So for my only knowledge, is it censured or censure or censored ? I'm old I get confused a lot … But really what is the difference between these words ? No wonder English is hard to learn ! 🤔😎

Subject: Lawrence Jones confronts anti-Israel protesters over denial of Hamas' brutality

Listen to the denial, the lack of knowledge and indoctrination. See the size of the crowds and this was Thursday.

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From what I saw in the media today so far …

The IDF is having skirmishes with Hezbollah on the Northern Border. It was reported Hezbollah may not have been ready to open this new front. As they have taken losses in the past. I'd thing they and Syria would at least fire more indirect assets. Or even Hezbollah make more cross-border raids/attacks ? To support their moslem militant brothers. But the war is still very young.

In the West Banks there has been some trouble with the Palestinians there. Could this be a 3d Front ? I don't think so. Just small unrest incidents.

The IDF is still cleaning up the Hamas terrorists that are still in Western Israel. As well as a few of Hamas have crossed the border again. Trying to continue their jihad. Over 1500 Hamas, Al Axa Martyers Bde, islamic jihad, etc. have been killed by the IDF. The IDF has rescued 250 hostages so far.

The IDF has drop leaflets, etc., told the UN to get Palestinians out of parts of Gaza. Hamas said basically no one is leaving. Obviously, they will use them human shields along with the hostages.

That is Hamas's & Iran's plan. Get as many civilians killed, post photos, etc., on the media. Then get sympathy from many in the world, as well as cause a general uprising among moslems.

Hamas are dictators. With their boot on the Palestinian's neck. But Hamas gets most if not all of their recruits/bodies in their ranks to make and fire rockets, do terrorist attacks etc. from Palestinians.

So again, if these Anti-Israel-Pro-Palestine protestors worldwide they are de facto supporters of Hamas. They seem to be relishing this murder of innocent Israelis. By these bloodthirsty terrorists. Showing photos of these butchered, burned, beheaded, raped, etc. Israelis. Even the Swastika has been seen. Some chanting "Gas the Jews!" … What kind of people would support this madness ?

I'm sure many Palestinians must support Hamas and the other terrorist groups. Some clearly are members of Hamas. Must be a fairly large number too. Some I'm sure just provide tacit support. And some don't want Hamas running their country.

So, in some ways if the IDF kills off much of Hamas they will be liberating Gaza, yes ? But I'm sure very few would actually go along with this.

Just heard a report that some Palestinians are evacuating Gaza. But Egypt has not opened their border to Gaza.

I wonder which side Hitler would support.

I don't. During the Second World War, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (the leader of the Arabs in what was then British Mandatory Palestine) visited Germany to meet with Hitler and Himmler, and urged them on. In his last days, Hitler regretted that he had not been able to win the Arabs to his cause.

The 1920's era Klan, which was the SECOND Klan, was vehemently nativist and spent as much time bewailing Catholics and Jews as it did black Americans. But I don't know that the original Klan, during Reconstruction, was anti-Semitic. There were lots of Jewish Confederates, and ante-bellum southern society was quite accepting of "Hebrews".

@arjuna:

A few days early, but Germans tend to come to the party too early rather than too late, even if they have U.S. citizenship.
Madison Square Garden, Febuary 20,1939:

I'm fully aware of this, but it was not a broad-based movement on every college campus, within the city council of many major cities. Ovaltine and Coca Cola did not give money to the American Bund. The American Bund was not given special recognition and a "knee" by a major American party, nor did the American Bund have champions within the Halls of Congress.

So expand your example, Arjuna -- place an American Bund rally at EVERY major university. Have tenured professors giving radio speeches supporting the Nazis and the killing of Jews. Spread the American Bund into the Chicago City council and have them block a measure condemning the nazi invasion of Poland.

That's where we are right now. This sickness is larger than the sickness represented by the American Bund, and is deeply embedded in the Left which has embraced Islamism and Islamists as Fellow Travellers to tear down Western Society.

@McKinistry

On the topic of the Klan, the most recent Republican nominee for Speaker, he just withdrew his candidacy this evening, described himself as "David Duke without the baggage".

Totally unconfirmed attack meme. The meme goes that 21 years ago " came from a conversation the lawmaker had with fellow Louisiana State University alumni Stephanie Grace. Grace, who is a reporter, didn't record or report the conversation at the time, and recalled years later, "going from memory," that Scalise "told me he was like David Duke without the baggage."

So a woman, who never said anything about this before, remembers this being said over 20 years ago by memory and who happens to be a reporter now comes out with this when Scalise wanted to be Speaker. Yeah….so, out comes the moral equivalency attack to make it seem like this is a both sides problem.

It is not.

@ninepoundround

I don't. During the Second World War, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (the leader of the Arabs in what was then British Mandatory Palestine) visited Germany to meet with Hitler and Himmler, and urged them on.

He did more than that. He moved to Berlin for part of the war to broadcast a radio program to Muslims urging them to join the Nazi cause to kill the Jews. He also helped organize the Arab Legion and the SS Handschar Division comprised mainly of Balkans muslims who perpetrated many atrocities against Jews and non Muslims.

Quartermass, we're on the same side! I read the article and was merely pointing out that it must be very difficult to balance or juggle different policies and strategies when playing off one enemy against another for some short term advantage. Like wrestling 3 cobras…eventually you'll get bit by one or all. Best to treat them all thew same in the long run, but short term geopolitical goals often get resolved by playing them off against each other. No need for hostility, okay?

I'm going to go a step further -- the Left actively allied with modern Islamism as Fellow Travellers to tear down Western Society.

1. We see the Nazi-Islamist alliance in WW2

2. During the Cold War the Soviets and Communist groups allied with Islamists to help destabilize the West.

*Iran: The USSR and Communist groups, including the Iranian Communist "Tudeh Party" actively supported and promoted Ayatollah Khomeni to help destabilize Iran.

* The Levant: The USSR trained, funded and organized anti-Israel Arab movements into the Palestinian movement in the 1960s. There was no Palestinian ethnic or cultural identify before then as Israel was home to a diverse group of Muslims and others. The USSR created the PLO, funded armed and trained it to destabilize Israel and other Western powers.

3. Western Leftists intellectuals allied with Islamists to promote the Marxist concept of Decolonialization as a means to destabilize and attack Western society and Israel, and to manufacture a moral cause to justify and support their actions. This alliance is deeply embedded in Leftist movements and groups, and in Leftist thought.

I'm curious about these space lasers.
They're Jewish?

That AI gets everywhere.
Didn't realise it got religion.

As to left wing anti semitism.
Those guys with the skin heads and swastikas.
They're left wing are they?

@SBminisguy

To be precise, it was you who chose the '39 example as the battleground in your favor.
Considering the possibilities left at the time, I don't think I did too badly, and from the point of view that it made the discussion more interesting, I am satisfied with the result.
As for the insanity you describe, I'm afraid it is a reflection of its counterpart.
Personally, I cannot comprehend the extreme narratives of either side.
I mean US societal discord, not the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
I just find fragments of a coherent story that no longer fit together and try to navigate between them as best I can.
It looks more like feuds between geriatric late Roman power groups bickering over dwindling power and influence.

On September 11, 2001, I was working as a dialysis specialized nurse in a dialysis unit.
I changed my profession later on.
We had a young Tunisian as a patient, about 23 years old. He was born in Germany, then came to Tunisia as a toddler with his mother for a few years to get a decent "Islamic" education, whatever that is. But when he was 9 years old, his kidneys failed, so he and his mother returned to get the life-saving medical treatment they never would have gotten in Tunisia.
Yes, we are generous.
Talking to him, you had the impression of a polite and well-integrated young man with a good job and culturally liberal for a working-class Muslim in Germany.

To pass their time, we had televisions for the patients, and when the first news of the towers collapsing came in, everyone was horrified, speechless, and stunned.
Except for one.
He cheered, finally the Yanks would get one up the ass.

I think everyone knows who that was.
My boss at the time, the head doctor called him to calm down, tell him to back off, etc.
The other patients, simple older people just shook their heads in bewilderment, a little afraid to say anything.
After all, they had also come to know him as a nice young and polite man.
The obviously deep irrational hatred towards the US-Americans was incomprehensible.

And I also do not understand even today, thousands of books and conversations with countless people later, who or what sowed this hatred.
It was the U.S., the Soviet Union and the other Allies who freed Germany from a plague that would have eliminated people like him had they remained in power and subjugated North Africa as a protectorate.
It would have made more sense to hate France or Turkey as successor to the Ottoman Empire, but he had no problems with Turks, French he spoke fluently and liked to visit relatives there.

But probably some trains of thought are too complicated and people look for simpler stories to cover their own feelings of inferiority.

To be precise, it was you who chose the '39 example as the battleground in your favor.
Considering the possibilities left at the time, I don't think I did too badly, and from the point of view that it made the discussion more interesting, I am satisfied with the result.

No worries, you addressed my point and I expanded on that. That's called a conversation.

he had no problems with Turks, French he spoke fluently and liked to visit relatives there.

And I know an Iranian-American gamer who hates the Turks as the great betrayers of the Islamic Caliphate of the Ottoman Empire. Go figure, he was born 50 years after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and that's his go-to rant.

The reason I'm focusing on the Western Left's reflexive support for Hamas is that it's an in-your-face symptom of a deep problem in all Western countries, where a strongly nihilistic movement is working to end Western Society and replace it with their utopian socialist paradise has become deeply entrenched bedfellows with truly horrible, evil people and movements like Hamas.

They have felt patronizingly that the enemy of their enemy was their friend, or at least their controllable ally. But that fantasy was exploded in Syria. The Obama Admin provided aid and arms to a pastiche of religious, secular and leftist anti-Assad groups in Syria. The secular leftists all got butchered by the religious groups, who took their stuff -- leaving ISIS-like groups and PKK-related terrorist groups as the only organized and motivated anti-Assad forces…and the US funded them.

Should not have happened, and should not be allowed to happen again.

And the Western Left need to take a hard look at their association and support for Islamists and dump the "decolonialism" and "oppression" blinders and ask themselves why they are supporting violent, virulently antisemitic, misogynistic and brutally anti-LGBTQ people, groups and movements.

Maybe it's time they all Move On…

Video shows Russian language speakers participating in Hamas border attacks. Are they Russian military advisors or mercenaries?

YouTube link

nor did the American Bund have champions within the Halls of Congress.

Not true. Joe McCarthy was a vigorous defender of the Nazi's of Kampfgruppe Pieper and the massacre at Malmedy. At least part of that behavior seemed to relate to the substantial German-American background in Wisconsin among his supporters along with his anti-semitic bent.

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Legion, I was not commenting on your use of language, which seemed defensible, but the interpretation people were putting on it.

FWIW, a censure is a formal vote of reprimand from a legislative body; it doesn't usually bring consequences other than shame (for those capable of feeling it). "To censor" is to formally prohibit publication of something in unaltered form. I thought you were suggesting someone be censured, which is proper, and someone else seemed to me to suggest that you were calling for an act of censorship (which is a legally dubious proposition in our country).

Didn't the Bund evaporate long before Tailgunner Joe burst on the scene?