"Hamas vs Israel... again" Topic

Got it, 35th. I still do not think these protests are that big, most people support Israel, and the protesters have a right to free speech. I only worry about some radical going violent. I strongly disagree with the protesters, but they have rights…until they break the law.

I have read that that the Israelis have felt pretty safe with all the armed Border security around, and they do have a much lower crime rate than the US. They didn't care much about gun ownership. That will change, but it will not save you from a booby trap, a bomb, or a missile. I don't carry a firearm because I like not thinking I have too, although I am a gun owner and support the 2nd. I would certainly want to carry there after this event.

I am curious. I see a lot of US citizens in this post decrying the barbarism of the attack, but very few from elsewhere. Where are those who are decrying the atrocities in the Ukraine, elsewhere in TMP? I would assume they would be equally outraged by these, since individuals from all over have been kidnapped, raped and killed. But maybe I'm wrong.

Subject: Tally Rises of Foreigners Murdered, Abducted or Reported Missing in Hamas Terrorist Attack


link

There are people in the US Congress and in the US population that support Palestine but in turn is a de facto support of Hamas and the other terrorists' groups. That did this horrendous act of terrorism. The stories coming out as the IDF clears out/kills the terrorists that crossed the border. Just keeping getting worse.

Hamas is threating to kill the hostage if the IDF keep firing into Gaza. Hamas said they will put these executions online, etc. And ISIS, etc., tactic. Note: at this point ISIS is very small and with the US, etc. attacks. Those numbers of dead ISIS will grow. They have effectively been made ineffective.

So here we will see Gaza being occupied/liberated by the IDF. It will be under the IDF's control. They will be there to make sure this never happens again. As with ISIS, Hamas must effectively eliminated. With extreme prejudice …

Killing, murdering, butchering, etc. innocent civilians was their goal/mission. They must have known they could not get very far without the IDF killing them off. But again, they believe if they die killing the infidels they go to paradise. I think the IDF will be sending many there in the coming days …

Very sadly the Body Count continues to grow …

Israelis – 1000+ …

Israeli, US, etc. Hostages – 150(?)

Palestinians – 700

Hamas & other terrorists – 1500 … [IMO there cannot be too many of these vermin dead. The IDF will take few prisoners.]

Worth noticing is israeli losses compared to the size of its population. Israel have approx 9,4 mil people. US 330 mil. So about 34 times larger.

Imagine 9/11 with 30.000 dead and 5000 hostages…

I understand if Israel rage is of biblical proportions.

Yes, with reports of finding babies being beheaded, cut from mothers' wombs, etc., etc. Absolutely demonic medieval actions. As the Bible said something about "reaping the whirlwind". Hamas will certainly see/feel this many times over …

God's speed IDF …

Cleanse the vermin … No prisoners …

Australia Chant Antisemitic Slurs "F--k the Jews" and "Gas the Jews" in Front of Sydney Opera Following Hamas Massacre (VIDEO)


link

35th OVI,

You are so right. The violence and slaughter of Ukrainian civilians, women and children, the forced kidnapping of thousands and unprovoked war is an outrage. Yet, how often do we hear, likely the same people who are backing Israel, call for us to forget Ukraine, stop funding and arming them and just let Russia win cuz it hasn't anything to do with us. Who hear would say "Just let Hamas win, this isn't our fight."

Most of the issue with Ukraine is the amount of money sent while we see the homeless, veterans with nothing. Then you add not spending this money on an open border and you get issues like we should see shortly. There will be more attacks here again. It is just the start in Israel unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong, I think we need to back Ukraine, but u believe the backlash is not seeing progress here that could use the money.

Dmitry Medvedev, Putin's pet former PM, has blamed the US for the Hamas attack. He wouldn't say that if Putin didn't feel that way as well. Russian drones, flown by Russian or Russian trained drone operators have supported the Hamas attacks. Seems Russia feels that expanding war to other areas will help them out. Where next?

Damn. There goes the idea of a limited war, guess we're in WW3 now, eh?

Some appalling acts.
Dragging off kids, presumably to use as human shields.
Grannies dragged out of basements.
Terrible.

The response will see more blood.
It's a never ending cycle unfortunately.

POTUS speech….full support for Israel to act without restraint. Cooperation and aid from all relevant US agencies. Warning to Iran- if anyone tries to interfere, "Don't" All allies consulted and supportive.

The worlds largest warship is there with its battlegroup. This will back up the warning and let Israel do what it must. More air defenses and other equipment to be sent. New US air groups arriving. A major deterrent force.

I think it's a stretch to call this and Ukraine WW3. We were already engaged with major military support for Ukraine. Hamas doesn't need Russians to operate their drones, and Putin isn't likely to spare them.

If the war does expand, I think Putin will not go all out for Iran. His bases in Syria are the main source of Russian influence in the region. He prefers low level destabilizing activities in the ME. None of these selfish dictators in the Axis can depend on each other. China just had another major real estate firm collapse today and its economy downgraded.

I don't hear any criticism towards the US POTUS from Israel right now. Frankly, what did you expect Biden would do, Italwars? If Congress can reconvene, we will see how politicized this might become.

" If Congress can reconvene, we will see how politicized this might become."

Just 4 witches…

"Meanwhile, FY 2023 broke the record for encounters on the FBI terror watchlist -- with 151 people encountered at the southern border between ports of entry, higher than the previous six years combined."

Subject: Thousands of ‘special interest aliens' from Middle East countries stopped at southern border since 2021: data | Fox News


link

Subject: Visegrád 24 on X: "Hamas supporters in the USA gather to mock a pro-Israel group that had met up to mourn together. The Hamas supporters hold up phones with pictures of murdered Israelis while laughing hysterically. "Look, that's your boy" one of them screams t.co/AjkOfMrLAH / X


link

Subject: Hamas terrorists executing people in a bomb shelter


link

🙄

"The Canadian Broadcasting Corp. gave strict guidelines to reporters on using the term "terrorist" in their coverage of Israel's war with Hamas, leaked emails reveal.

"Do not refer to militants, soldiers or anyone else as ‘terrorists.' The notion of terrorism remains heavily politicized and is part of the story," CBC's director of journalistic standards, George Achi, wrote in an email to employees on Saturday.

The CBC executive instructed journalists to make sure audiences understand that when quoting someone using this term, they are stating "opinion."

"Even when quoting/clipping a government or a source referring to fighters as ‘terrorists,' we should add context to ensure the audience understands this is opinion, not fact," he added.

CBC News attributes the words ‘terrorist' and ‘terrorism' to authorities, politicians and other officials who use these terms. There is no ban on these words. However, we ourselves avoid declaring specific groups terrorists, in line with the policies of many reputable news organizations and agencies around the world," the spokesperson said."

link

Just so we're keeping score of who's on which side-

Don't bother. Two hundred people is not a movement. We can't go even a couple of days on this without looking for someone at home to attack. There is overwhelming support for Israel in the US except for some on the far left and the traditional group of right wing radicals like those at Charlottesville. The rest of us – right, left and center are adamantly opposed to Hamas. Hundreds of millions of us.

However much I might disagree with the US far left, they don't mean @#$& in the context of this atrocity by Hamas. Or the various military possibilities on all sides. I would rather discuss whether the US will engage if Hezbollah launches a big bunch of their missiles, for example. So maybe we could give the politics a rest. For once.

I don't think it as small as you might think. It obviously not the majority, but larger than you might think. Wait a few weeks as attacks on Gaza heighten and see how they creep out of the woodwork.

A few more examples:

Subject: Black Lives Matter Celebrates Hamas' Attack on Israel


link

Subject: Gabriel Noronha on X: "UVA students call the horrific events of this weekend "an unprecedented feat for the 21st century" and "a step towards a free Palestine." I never thought I'd see students from Charlottesville say such a thing – shame on them. t.co/sxJhPiKyBO / X


link

Subject: Campus Anti-Semites Plot ‘Day Of Resistance' In Support Of Hamas


link

Subject: WATCH: Karine Jean-Pierre Blasts Left-wing Democrats for Equivocating on Hamas Terror


link

Subject: Ilhan Omar condemns Israel's military response to Hamas, says ‘solution' is ‘negotiated peace' | Fox News


link

As relates to the last link, a quote from the Congresswoman from 2012

So obviously not a new view for her.

"Israel has hypnotized the world, may Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel."

full support for Israel to act without restraint. Cooperation and aid from all relevant US agencies. Warning to Iran- if anyone tries to interfere, "Don't" All allies consulted and supportive.

IMO Iran should have been mentioned more. There must be some sort of punitives … Freeze the $6 USD Billion that the US gave back to Iran at least. Anyone in the US Gov't that thinks somehow Iran will not be able to nukes … is demented …

One in Congress said basically we don't have enough evidence to say for sure Iran was involved … That is ludicrous, IMO. Don't know what angle is being played there? Are we on the same planet?

Well, we can blame the Amish, but they were not there. So yes, there is no evidence they were involved.

Iran is all the usual suspects …

BTW – BLM is basically supporting what Hamas did …

Just 4 witches…

6 really … 5 in the Sqd + one … Again, they should be censured, etc. One of them just brought a Palestinian flag into Congress.

Would someone in Congress support Japan after Pearl Harbor?

Over the last few years, it has been reported several times that ani-semitic violence and rhetoric has been on a rapid rise in the US. I wouldn't be so quick to say that the people of the US are united behind Israel. This is a sick world we live in. The internet has allowed all the crazies to post whatever they want true or not.

You guys, I guess I just don't care about these people unless they turn violent or incite violence. I don't support any of them and I don't think they make any difference. To Israel, Hamas, most Americans. Our enemies use them to highlight our divisions. But there is no reason for them to suck up so much oxygen.

There is a lot of blood being spilled. Gruesome, barbaric. Stay focused, plan the objectives, deployments, logistics. Do the job. Shut out as much as you can and do the job. Hostages and Hamas first, get it done. No one will ever be the same there.

"Don't" was meant for Iran. In diplomatic terms that was pretty certain. A direct accusation could place a lot of new pressure on Israel.

Get the hostages back if they can, then wipe out Hamas, then figure out what to do with Gaza. Then deal with the Iranian leaders.

Nobody seems interested in the USN deployment there. But Israel can proceed with the above priorities while we cover Iran and Hezbollah.

Grattan you are right. Hate crimes have been on the rise in the last decade. And social media has connected a lot of troubled people in a common cause against minorities and American institutions. But I don't believe most people identify with far left or right.

I think social media and internet are in a way to "blame". A disgruntled people can now connect and reach "critical mass". Before a weirdo in Conneticut was alone but now he can get in contact with weirdos all across the globe. Instead of one weirdo we have to deal with 100 people sharing the same view. And they can influence even more people.

No mattee how weird your views are with social media and internet you can quickly find peers.

Is Russia Behind Hamas Attack on Israel? What We Know

link

Armand

'I see a lot of US citizens in this post decrying the barbarism of the attack, but very few from elsewhere.'

35thOVI – I don't know about anyone else but all the condemnation of what's happened has already been covered by others in this thread, to say the least. You can have another Brit posting about Hamas/Palestinian scum, but I don't think that will change anyone's opinion or really add anything constructive. I can also post about what I would like to see happen now, but I'm fairly sure my wishes won't come true.

'I see a lot of US citizens in this post decrying the barbarism of the attack, but very few from elsewhere.'

German here.
What else there is to add?
The shameful pro-Hamas celebrations in the West, the lukewarm statements of Islamic associations in the West?
The beheaded babies?

The likely retaliation against Iran?
Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

I see absolutely no way Israel not going into Gaza full force, which is more than understandable.
And which I am deeply convinced is a mistake, an inevitable mistake but a mistake none the less.

The state of Israel was built not to give 'Gods chosen people' their promised land.
The state of Israel was built to protect Jews from persecution and genocide at all costs.
Hamas attack was a progrom not seen since the Shoah.
The state of Israel has failed its people.
It undermines the very basis of existence of the Israeli state.
Another catastrophe unfolds before our very eyes.

Regarding Ukraine I forgot to add:

Cui Bono?

Hamas?
They will be wiped out because they have gone too far.
At best, they will orgasm into their Islamic death cult martyrdom.
Of course, they will be replaced later by some other group that manages to be even worse.

The Palestinians?
Har, har, hostages, human shields, recruitment ground, expendable pawns, displaced persons on their own ground, victims.

So who benefits from the ending of a rules-based world order, the pushing back of U.S. influence, the chaos in the Middle East and in Western spheres of influence in general?
You know the answer.

In an environment of friction, uncertainty, and fluidity, war
gravitates naturally toward disorder. Like the other attributes of war, disorder is an inherent characteristic of war; we can never eliminate it. In the heat of battle, plans will go awry, instructions and information will be unclear and misinterpreted, communications will fail, and mistakes and unforeseen events will be commonplace.

It is precisely this natural disorder which creates the conditions ripe for exploitation by an opportunistic will.

MCDP1 Warfighting, p.10 – pdf link

'I see a lot of US citizens in this post decrying the barbarism of the attack, but very few from elsewhere.'

My point was, I read the ultramodern threads on Ukraine and the constant condemnation of either Russia (mostly) or Ukraine (some), but I was not seeing those European people here…. Until now. Barbarity is barbarity, and should be condemned. Wondered why the difference. Good to see some of them here now.

How naive do you have to be to think everyone in the whole wide world will have the same opinion as you, or the majority? Or even everyone in this large country, or any country for that matter.
What's the point of highlighting every group you can find that seemingly supports this atrocity? It's hard to imagine, but if the barbarism was way worse some would still applaude it. No suprise – welcome to human nature.
As Tortorella has said (and thank you for your balanced words), most of us (around the world) are shocked and repulsed by this and full of sympathy for Israel. Accept this and move on.

No problems here…we all have a right to our opinions.

But I am interested in the events themselves. I am posting a link to the NYT, which is traditionally a strong editorial supporter of Israel and puts more boots on the ground than most others. It details some of the early assessment of recent Israeli intel failures.
Complacency seems to have played a big role.

link

@35thOVI

Everything is fine, at least here.

Actually, I shy away from a lot of discussions on Ultramodern because they are very likely to somehow mutate into internal affairs of US politics and I don't like to comment on them.
I have an opinion on, but no stake in them.

Which is not an accusation, most forum members are US Americans, the US is still the authoritative world power, with all the resulting consequences for its domestic policy.
As far as Israel is concerned, the discussion is particularly sensitive, since the USA is the undisputed protector of Israel and has close cultural, especially religious ties.
Though,the discussions here are much more civilised compared to other forums and platforms elsewhere that are closer to the topic.

But, there are for sure forum members that probably do have strong opinions regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict, that will shy away because of that.

Not everyone is as stubborn and outspoken as Cuprum2 regarding Russia/Ukraine.

Silurian..I Don't think that. I think my posts have made that obvious by showing that there are many who do not.. all over the world. Also pointing out that anti semitism and fascism is not limited to the right. Lastly highlighting the possibility that we and other European countries have opened ourselves up to additional 9/11's, as we all have allowed those who back and sympathize with what Hamas has done, into our countries. (As we see with the protests). To believe it won't happen again, is naďve.

I should add, if someone favors HAMAS, then man up and express your opinions. I and others will disagree with you, but it is your right to express it.

So you're saying you think most people are 'not' shocked and repulsed, but rather support Hamas?

No, I did not say that. I did say there is a minority in our country that DO support them. But not as small as some want to believe and if we go worldwide, much larger.

So maybe we could give the politics a rest. For once.

Not easy to do that. Anybody supporting Hamas and its actions is akin to say, imagine a rally with thousands of supporters marching down Broadway in NYC to show solidarity with the Nazis invasion of Poland and Einsatzgruppen massacres of Polish Jews and others. Imagine the crowd waving Nazi swastika banners and holding placards with photos of people murdered by the Nazis, many dancing, singing and chanting. Oh, and the marchers include an American political Party that is heavily aligned with a number of sitting Members of Congress.

The response to that can only, if we're restrained, be political.

I certainly believe there is an element in both the US and the rest of the West that supports Hamas. I suspect most of the student types are naive in the extreme as regards the realistic possibility of peace, some have religious and ancestral roots and some are simply anti-Semitic loons from both the extreme left and right. This is their right under the First Amendment and absent violence, not something government can act against but they certainly can and should monitor the language for true incitement. That said, private employers, universities and professional organizations are equally free to act. Post a pro-Hamas thing on social media and any sensible employer will check and watch that job opportunity vanish. I believe Harvard is disestablishing those 33 entities the signed the letter blaming Israel. That is a start. Now let any potential employer treat those students as intellectual lepers and keep them out of the workforce.

The actions by Hamas are not terrorism but outright barbarism. This behavior is inconsistent with modern cultural norms of all humanity. People and the entities that enable any group that can shoot a mother with a child in her arms need extermination. Those that support such behavior passively need to be ostracized with prejudice by anyone who considers themselves a member of civilization.

I believe Harvard is disestablishing those 33 entities the signed the letter blaming Israel. That is a start.

Shows how corrupt these institutions and groups have become that it took this campaign of mass slaughter to get a reaction, and for us all to see the extensive web of interrelated pro-islamist and leftist groups. But why did the Harvard chapter of Amnesty International support Hamas?

Other groups in the news on record as supporting Hamas butchery and mass murder include:

*Chapters of Black Lives Matter
*Chapters of the SEIU labor union
*Starbucks Workers United

American politicians on record as supporting Hamas murder include:

* The DSA-aligned "Squad" in Congress
* All but one of the Chicago City Council, who all blocked a measure condemning Hamas

FWIW – according to the FBI 55% of all religious based hate crimes are against Jews in the USA.

Many supports Palestine and in turn Hamas, islamic jihad, Al Aksa Martyrs Bde, Hezbollah, etc. Yes, even BLM, the Ivy League, some in the US Congress, etc. support this barbaric attack on Israel … 😯

Iran has supported these terrorist for decades. The USA needs to stop playing softball with the biggest supporter of terrorism worldwide. I'm not saying going to war. But stop giving the $ billions, put very tough sanctions on them again, etc., etc. They like China & Russia are not our friends. They all take advantage of US weak, woke, etc. leadership.

We see protests in many non-moslem nations against Israel and for Hamas, etc. E.g. the USA, Australia, etc.

But as usual this is like many in the USA. They are a very vocal minority but make a lot of noise. E.g. BLM, Antifa, etc. Anyone with any morale compass, logic, reason etc. sees this brutality for what it is. There is no reason for this but their religious motivated vengeance. And hatred for Jews.

They crossed into Israel with no other intent than to execute as many Israelis as possible in the most barbaric medieval methods and ways. And be "martyred" as their skewed religious beliefs tell them. If they die killing infidels, they will go to paradise, get 72 Virgins, etc. Very few of them made it back to Gaza, save for the ones who took hostages. But they knew it was a one-way trip on their way to "paradise".

The IDF continues to clear up the terrorist that got into Israel. Last body count over 1500 … Good shoot'n boys ! Keep it up ! Paradise will be getting crowded.

Sadly about 2000 Israelis are dead …

Iran's Ayatollah publicly praised this attack and those who were committing these atrocities.

AFAIK some Palestinians strongly support Hamas etc. Some only tacit support, few do not support them at all. Someone tell me if I am wrong …

Iran's Ayatollah publicly praised this attack and those who were committing these atrocities.

Of course they did, they are the puppetmasters of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis who started the Civil War in Yemen, and Shiite factions in Iraq.

"At best, they will orgasm into their Islamic death cult martyrdom."-Arjuna

Yes it was God's will, "Allah Akbar". I love how they play that tune every time they get utterly curb stomped.

"I see absolutely no way Israel not going into Gaza full force, which is more than understandable.
And which I am deeply convinced is a mistake, an inevitable mistake but a mistake none the less."- Arjuna

The only mistake I see if they try to clear the built-up areas in MOUT style operations. The built-up areas should be leveled, reduced to slag piles. The Israelis need to be smart about this and reduce their own casualties, world opinion be damned. When this is done Gaza strip should be uninhabitable, whoever is left can immigrate to the nearest friendly Islamic country that welcomes them.

People and the entities that enable any group that can shoot a mother with a child in her arms need extermination.

Who supported William Laws Calley Jr. and is still in dire need of extermination?

John 8:7

This is one of the reasons I shy away from a lot of the discussions here.

Israelis – 1000+ … (Mostly unarmed civilians)

Israeli, US, etc. Hostages – 150(?) (Mostly unarmed civilians)

Palestinians – 700 (Collateral self-inflicted by the Hamas suicide cult they idolize.)

Hamas & other terrorists – 1500 (These warriors of AHEM God managed to rape, murder and abduct a bunch of unarmed civilians for the loss of 1500. What a bunch of punks I can't wait to see how lopsided this gets when they face the Israeli military)

The USA needs to demand our citizen hostages back or inform Hamas we will gladly assist Israel in bombing them into nonexistence. If Hamas had two braincells they could rub together they would arrange for the immediate transfer of all foreign nationals, they are holding hostage.

When this is done Gaza strip should be uninhabitable, whoever is left can immigrate to the nearest friendly Islamic country that welcomes them.

Thank God, the US thought otherwise in 1945 in the case of Germany.
I would not be here to quote the New Testament, although I am not even a Christian.

"Thank God, the US thought otherwise in 1945 in the case of Germany."- Arjuna

Huge difference Arjuna! The Germans were defeated, and the war was over. The US or other neighboring countries did not endure endless terrorism from Germany. Germany wanted to assimilate back into the civilized world and desired peace. Germany did not elect an Islamic death cult preaching genocide of its neighbors.

That's right, the Germans only killed a few million Jews…
And one or the other less important subhuman in Eastern Europe.

The Israeli build-up, the bombing, the inevitable advance into Gaza, talk of flattening it… and the merciless Hamas leaders smile.

I think maybe we can demand all we want, but these people do not operate on the same wavelength as the civilized world. There may be all kinds of leverage, including military response. We have just put a team of experienced US hostage negotiators over there and they know how this is done. Or if it can be done. The hardest part is the blatant disregard for human life, including their own and the Palestinians, that these extreme terror fighters exhibit.

+1 Dragon Gunner, Gaza is so densely populated and over-built, an urban combat nightmare.

"That is right, Germans just killed a few million Jews…"- Arjuna

The point is when the war was over it was over, peace was given a chance and embraced. Decades later we don't see German death cults sneaking into France to murder and abduct Jews.

If your neighbor is hell bent on killing you, proclaims loudly that is his intent and has tried multiple times for decades, at a minimum he needs to leave the neighborhood, become incarcerated or be put down.

I was on Yahoo. There was a story about Ron DeSantis showing full support for Israel. On Yahoo readers can leave a response. There were some 900 responses. I would say 2/3rd supported Palestine and Hamas. Some would says "I condemn what they did, but…" Many flat out blamed Israel and said nothing about the slaughter of innocent people. Where are all these people coming from? BLM, the squad, Harvard and other elite universities. Where is this hate for Israel coming from?
Where did this disinterest in pure violent evil come from? There was a poll back in March that show nearly half of Democrats supported Palestine. Used to be Israel had solid liberal support in the US. People here have said this is just a small fringe of people who feel this way. I am not so sure this is true.