"Hamas vs Israel... again" Topic

Israel approved Rafah military operation and started striking Hamas targets

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Armand

So… the "Ceasefire Agreement" that Hamas "agreed to" was NOT negotiated with Israel! The Biden Admin worked with Quatar, Hamas and Egypt to create the "ceasefire agreement" they announced as a way to pressure Israel to suspend military operations.

Again -- this is not something Israel was involved in or agreed to.

Israeli officials said Monday that Biden administration officials had secretly worked with mediators, without Israel's knowledge, to craft a Hamas "agreement" to ceasefire terms in an attempt to deter an attack on Hamas in Rafah.

Israeli officials claim the Biden administration knew about the latest hostage and ceasefire deal proposal Egypt and Qatar negotiated with Hamas, but didn't brief Israel before Hamas announced it accepted it on Monday. A senior U.S. official pushed back saying "American diplomats have been engaged with Israeli counterparts. There have been no surprises."

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When the Israelis read Hamas' response, they were surprised to see it contained "many new elements" that were not part of the previous proposal that Israel agreed on and that was presented to Hamas by the U.S., Egypt and Qatar ten days ago, the officials said.

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SB yes that is my understanding. Just like the administration is withholding ammunition from Israel now too.

Yes, November doth approach for the administration.

Reminds me of the Monty Python song:
"Every Sperm Is Sacred"
But with different lyrics.

Every vote is sacred
Every vote is great
If a vote is wasted
The Party gets quite irate

😉

The WH has denied some bombs that were to be sent to Israel. However, those bombs were not to be used in Gaza. But on Israel's north border. Where Hezbollah is firing missiles, etc. at Israel.

35thOVI +1.

This morning, the administration finally admitted what was hinted at 3 days ago.

"The Biden administration opted to pause a shipment of some 3,500 bombs to Israel last week because of concerns the weapons could be used in Rafah where more than one million civilians are sheltering "with nowhere else to go," a senior administration official told ABC News.

Other weapon transfers from the U.S. to Israel -- including the sale of Joint Direct Attack Munition, or JDAM kits -- are being closely scrutinized as part of a larger review of U.S. military aid to Israel that began last April, the official said.

The decision to pause the shipment and consider slow-walking others is a major shift in policy for the Biden administration and the first known case of the U.S. denying its close ally military aid since the Israel-Hamas war began.

Asked about the reporting at a Senate hearing on Wednesday, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin publicly confirmed the U.S. has paused a munitions shipment and that a major Israeli operation in Rafah could change the U.S. calculus on security assistance to Israel."

Subject: Biden withheld bomb shipment to Israel out of fears it could be used in Rafah: Source – ABC News


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Subject: College anti-Israel agitators could be sent to Gaza under new House GOP bill

I love this, but it will never get past the Senate. 🤣😂

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So in a nutshell (paraphrasing for POTUS): Israel you sit back and take whatever Hamas and Hasbulla throw at you and we will try to help you stop them landing, but you don't go in and try to stop it permanently. It's ok for us to avenge 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you can't avenge the October Massacre. All and also, I need the votes of those over here who hate you, in November.

Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "Biden tells CNN that he will not only continue to pause shipments of bombs to Israel, but also hold up artillery shells because what the IDF has done and wants to do is 'just wrong.' t.co/tChCG1IB3l / X


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35th, I think what Biden is saying is that enough innocent civilians have already been killed to avenge the 7 Oct massacre 30 times over. Israel needs to find a way of freeing the remaining hostages, punishing Hamas and ending the conflict without killing another 10,000 innocent children.

I know that Hamas are still trying their best to force the Israelis to kill more Palestinians, but the Israelis should exercise restraint if at all possible.

Dagwood, I would respectfully disagree. 🙂

If the Mexicans had come into Texas, raped men and women, tortured, beheaded, burned men, women and children alive, killed indiscriminately over 1000 of our citizens and then took over 100 hostages, I believe we would have gone into Mexico and destroyed whoever was responsible.

Meanwhile those who did it were still dropping missiles on us and had been doing that for decades.

Would Israel demand we stop? Did they demand we stop in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Also sadly, all these "pro Palestinian" protesters, would be in the streets demanding that the white US colonial oppressors, stop the genocide of the innocent downtrodden dark skinned Mexican oppressed.

Nope, this is all for the votes.. IMHO.

"New poll reveals how many Dems agree with demands of anti-Israel campus protesters

Democrats are divided over the anti-Israel protests that have erupted on college campuses across the country this spring over Israel's war with Hamas in Gaza, according to a new national poll.

And the USA Today/Suffolk University survey released on Wednesday indicates that Republicans are mostly united in their opposition to the demonstrations, some of which have turned violent in recent weeks.

The protests in support of Palestinians have grabbed plenty of attention on cable news and online coverage. Demonstrators have criticized President Biden's support for Israel in its battle with Hamas and have called on colleges and universities to cut financial ties with the government in Jerusalem.

According to the poll, 32% of Democrats questioned say they support the demonstrations, with 38% saying they agree with the protesters' demands but oppose the way they are conducting themselves. Seventeen percent of Democrats said they oppose the protests.

It's a different story with Republicans, 81% of whom said they oppose the protests. Four percent of Republicans questioned said they support the demonstrations, with 9% saying they agree with the protesters' demands but oppose the way they are conducting themselves."

I will would also add: The POTUS demanded the spending package be passed to support the Ukraine. But the aid to Israel was part of the package. He should not be allowed to stop part, without stopping it all. Actually he really has no right to stop any of it, it is a Congressional spending package and NOT his purview.

Interesting. The Egyptians are angry that Israel has captured the Gaza border crossing point at Rafah. Turns out their anger is monetary, not humanitarian. The Egyptian border officials have made hundreds of millions of $$$ in human trafficking trade from Gaza, little better than the Coyotes that ply the open US southern Border. Egyptian border security and government agencies charge up to $9,000 USD a person to let them leave Gaza and enter Egypt.

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Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "Hamas launches rockets from southern Gaza into Israel this morning, striking a kindergarten playground with kids in the shelter. This occurs less than 48 hours after Biden declared a weapons freeze and said Israel shouldn't finish Hamas off in Rafah. t.co/SJhdSgUaOa / X


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@35th OVI. You wrote "If the Mexicans had come into Texas, raped men and women, tortured, beheaded, burned men, women and children alive, killed indiscriminately over 1000 of our citizens and then took over 100 hostages, I believe we would have gone into Mexico and destroyed whoever was responsible.

Do not forget that the US population is approx 33 times larger in the US.

So 1000 murdered Israelis equal about 33.000 murdered Americans, per capita.

Well imagine that, we could not count on what the pro-Hamas media was reporting. Who could have foreseen that? 🤔

Subject: United Nations halves estimate of women and children killed in Gaza


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Subject: UN revises Gaza death toll, almost 50% less women and children killed than previously reported


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If the Mexicans had come into Texas

FWIW, 60% of Hispanics in the US are from Mexico. Again, I am not anti-Latino*, etc. … Some of my best friends in the Army were Hispanic. But all immigration no matter from any country must be done legally. The Constitution in says that IIRC.

[*Besides … I got a thing for Latinas Sofia Vergara, Selma Hyake and Nikki Garcia.] 😘🤩😏

United Nations halves estimate of women and children killed in Gaza

Any figures coming out of Hamas are just plain wrong. Nothing they report, just like Putin, is Not accurate. As is the same with much of our media, "facts" are only being reported or stated that fits their narrative and agenda.

Yes, we just cannot know for now.

Subject: More than 1,000 Hamas members being treated in Turkey, says Erdogan


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Hmmm … whose side is Erdogan on ? Oh … wait …the Turks may be in NATO. But both Hamas and the Turks have the same religion in common. 'nuff said …

Israel was attacked. This is the war Hamas wanted and knew would happen. Hamas has said they will never stop attacking Israel. Not one Muslim nation has offered to take refugees. Every attempt at ceasefire has been thwarted by Hamas. Hamas still holds hostages. Hamas uses their own people as human shields and withholds provisions. The US has withheld critical intelligence that would end the war more quickly and with less loss of life, deciding not to tell Israel where Hamas commanders and their HQ bunkers are. And the US is now withholding precision munitions from Israel (that they paid for) that can end the war more quickly with less loss of life.

Hamas has chosen war.
The Biden Admin has chosen to support Hamas' war.

Guess Israel stands alone for now…

SB pretty close to what all the links I've posted have said. +1

Only thing left out is how the position of the administration as regards support for Israel has changed as protests on campuses have increased and polls show the POTUS's opponent is increasing his lead in the polls. The need for the votes of those opposing Israel, but previously supporting the POTUS become more and more necessary for him and his party. Also, the possibility of a massive 60's style protest at the Democratic Convention, which the MSM could not hide, looks like a distinct possibility.

Miami Florida 😔

Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "Florida Imam calls jews the 'brothers of apes and pigs.' This is in Miami. @MEMRIReports t.co/N5w4R39AM7 / X


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We've talked about the pro-Hamas protestors on our streets and colleges.

Someone explain to me, why is this different than all the anti Isreali protesters? They block facilities, threaten Jewish students, cause damage, will not allow students to attend classes or have a graduation ceremony, block highways causing inconvenience or even physical danger for someone trying to get to a hospital or medical procedures.

🤔 what if their highway blockage causes someone to miss an abortion procedure or appointment?

A two tier justice system?

Subject: More Pro-Lifers Sentenced To Prison Over Protest At D.C. Abortion Facility

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Well driving thru my local downtown area recently. I did see about 2 dozen or so pro-Hamas protesters across the street from the County courthouse. In front of the Federal courthouse. They had Pally flags, signs, bloody handprints on some of the signs, etc., etc. They were chanting etc. just like on CNN, FOX, etc.

I'd call them "useful dupes", as they really think by their protesting, etc. will actually do something effective. But they seem to be protesting without any tents pitched, nothing violent, etc., etc. like we see in the media. So, they seemed to me to be more annoying than anything else. But we do have the right of peaceful assembly and freedom of speech.

I wonder if they even know what river and sea they are chanting about ? Or if they really know anything accurate about the region, etc. ? The University, YSU is not far from the courthouses. I hope their mommy & dada are not paying for them to get an education.

Subject: Body of German-Israeli Woman Shani Louk Recovered in Gaza – Palestinian Barbarians Kidnapped Her from Music Festival, Raped Her, Broke Her Legs, Murdered Her, Then Paraded Her Body Through the Streets of Gaza as Civilians Cheered | by Jim Hoft

"Initial reports hinted at Shani Louk being sexually assaulted and killed, with her lifeless body flaunted around Gaza, as an appalling trophy of terrorism. Disturbing images and videos showed the militants spitting on her body, chanting, "Allahu Akbar!" meaning, God is good, as they paraded through the Gaza, bearing Louk's corpse.

"They found her skull, which means these barbaric, sadistic animals, moles, simply chopped off her head when they were attacking and torturing and killing Israelis. It's a huge tragedy," he continued.

Shani was tortured, raped, and beaten before being murdered and dragged round the streets half-naked as a "trophy" and an example of what would happen to other Israelis."

2 other dead hostages were recovered.


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Throughout my adult life, I have repeatedly encountered a certain type of educated person who places great emphasis on their own identification with the cause of "good" and "justice." In spite of this, when push comes to shove, these people almost invariably seem to come down on the side of the killers, tyrants and murders- whether it was the Soviet leadership, Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, Iran or the Palestinians. It's striking how consistently they embrace the murders, killers and tyrants.

I remember hearing about that tragic barbaric medieval horrible death of that poor woman. As OVI pointed out and it was filmed by those animals. As we know this heinous act was repeated many times by Hamas and other affiliated islamic terrorist groups. It is reported many of the "innocent" Palestinians supported or even participated in this atrocity.

IMO the IDF, Bibi, etc. knows what must be done to avenge this brutality. And it must never happen again. As the US and our allies did to ISIS. And we still are killing some of them off from time to time to this day. It appears the link between Hamas and the Palestinians is very close.

For Israel to protect its people from this unrepentant group of islamic radical terrorists. The IDF will have to continue to cleanse Gaza of this threat. They have no choice. Hamas/the Palestinians must reap the whirlwind for their rape, murder, torture, etc. of Israelis on 7 Oct. As well as the many hostages they took, and many died or sadly will. And yes, many in Gaza will continue to die. That will include women and children as that is part of Hamas's MO.

Regardless of what pro-Hamas rioters, etc., in the USA say. A good example of "useful dupes" … And they may never know the truth. What will they do when the IDF moves to stability operations in Gaza ? After Hamas/the Palestinians suffer even more deaths. Deaths of their own making … But the killing is long from over …

Nine pound round +1

Saw an interview on CNN this morning with GEN(Ret) Petraeus being questioned by Farid Zekarias. The GEN believes as some others do. That the success in Iraq fighting that insurgency was working with the various local tribes, groups, etc. that were suffering under AQ in Iraq. Which was very successful for the most part. The US demonstrated to these Iraqis that AQ was their enemy not the US. The US working with them would make things better.

But some say the Israels should try to do similar. I just don't know if there is such a group of Palestinians that would work with the IDF to get rid of Hamas ? Many support making some sort of deal to get the remaining hostages back. But Hamas wants the IDF out of Gaza in exchange. That is a bridge too far at this time. And very unrealistic.

As usual in an insurgency Hamas is back at locations in Gaza's North. That were already "secured". That is no surprise as the insurgents know they have to pop up everywhere they can. Inflicting damage to the occupying forces, etc.

So, the blood shed will continue …

I said this from the beginning. Hamas surrenders, it ends.

How do you deal with those who shout:
"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!"

": the catch-all phrase symbolizing Palestinian control over the entire territory of Israel's borders, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea"

It calls for the destruction of Israel end for most shouting, the extermination of the Jewish people living there. And if 10/7 is an example, in the absolutely worst ways possible.

Again where will the Palestinian Force come from that would work with the IDF to kill off Hamas ? I don't think anywhere now or in the future. I don't think the IDF could use hearts & minds, etc. on islamic terrorists … Frankly if I was in the IDF based on what happened on 07 Oct. I would give little quarter, take few prisoners …

Subject: Marina Medvin 🇺🇸 on X: "Palestinian civilians cheered on the kidnapping of 19 year old Naama Levy— her pants stained with blood from rape, her heels sliced open to prevent her from running, her hands tied behind her back so she could not resist. Today is her 225th day in Gaza. t.co/3eIFaBft4S / X


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Seems to me a good reason why for the IDF to get more payback and vengeance. Appears many Palestinians supported what Hamas did on 07 Oct. And some may have helped with the slaughter. So much for innocent civilians in many cases. Many are now reaping the whirlwind …

IMO, I do not think this could happen, Legion. There are decades worth of anger and pain at work. Civilians killed, whole towns destroyed. And Hamas launching rockets at Israel.. Whether you think the Israelis were justified in their past treatment of civilians or not, they will not have friends in Gaza now. And anyone who does join them will not last long, would be my guess. Hamas would make them special targets.. Fear as well as anger…

This feels like a forever war. Hamas returning to north Gaza. Looks like the IDF is not losing, but I cannot figure out if they are really winning, beyond the obvious destruction and casualties. This looks like old school tribal hate as well as response to the atrocities of Oct.7.

Regardless this has all been going on for way too long. This is part of a war that started in 1948.

The first thing is the US has to put very strict sanctions on Iran. And not give them billions of $, as we see is the predilection of the current US leaders.

Iran's leadership is using that $ to support terrorism, including Hamas and the 7 Oct atrocities. If they don't have the cash to train and support groups like Hamas. That will go a long to limit what Hamas, etc. can do, IMO.

Follow the money and cut off supplies and support to Hamas.

Seems there is an impasse between Hamas and its supporters and Israel. Again as has this has been going on for many many years. At this point attiriting Hamas as much as possible. And yes, there will be more CD, a fact of doing business, i.e. in an urban insurgency. Especially when the insurgents are using their people as human shields.

As more and more Israeli hostages are found dead. It makes it clear. There is no room for a ceasefire. Not now … Hamas put unrealistic goals to go do a cease fire. It is not to their advantage. So in the short run all the IDF can do is continue to kill off Hamas and its supporters.

You can't talk to Hamas or Iran's Gov't. As the US has been trying to do. They see it a weakness and do what they want and take advantage of the USA's risk aversion and fear of escalation.

Short answer – the US must continue to support Israel. In its mission to attrite more and more of Hamas and its supporters. And more will die … men, women and children. And Hamas and Iran do not care …

As Gomer Pyle Would say: Well Surprise! surprise! Surprise!"

"Reuters reported on Tuesday that "there has been no aid delivered to a U.N. warehouse from a U.S.-built pier for two days.""

Most stolen before it reaches sources.

🤔 will they next put US troops in harms way to escort the aid?

Subject: Report: Most Aid Delivered to Gaza Via U.S. Pier Is Being Stolen


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The Guardian, sort of the opposite of Brietbart, and some other sources say the IDF is tipping off Israeli settlers about the shipments. Groups are are blocking and vandalizing the convoys. I could not find the Guardian article on line to post, but I am reading today's actual paper here in the UK. Tsav 9 and other groups say these shipments would end up controlled by Hamas.

some other sources say the IDF is tipping off Israeli settlers about the shipments.

There are no Israeli settlers in the area to block shipments. We have seen drone footage of a convoy crossing into Gaza and then being looted by a swarm of people. Just like the first shipments of aid rolling off the stupid US pier into Gaza got looted within minutes by Hamas and others.

I could not find the Guardian article on line to post, but I am reading today's actual paper here in the UK.

This should be it:

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First, why is it Israel's responsibility to make sure this aid is distributed? Did they launch a massacre in October? The Palestinians elected Hamas to govern them, let their leaders make sure it's distributed. Or is it that Hamas does not care about the Palestinians? They are only interested in religious zealotry, rape, torture, kidnapping, plunder, beheadings, extermination and raising up another state ruled by Islamic fundamentalism, like Afghanistan and Iran?

Israeli settlers hijacking the trucks? I think this may be the land based shipments, not those from the port. Read both articles

Subject: After activist attacks on Gaza aid trucks, some Israelis step in to guard convoys | The Times of Israel


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Subject: Gaza aid piles up in Egypt, US pier delivery falters | Reuters


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And another

Subject: Nearly 70% of Gaza Aid from US-Built Pier Stolen :: Gatestone Institute


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Please enjoy this new video and story of the gentle peace loving followers of Islam.

Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "Disturbing new video emerges from October invasion of Israel. Hamas lines up Israeli female soldiers after capture. ‘Here are the girls who can get pregnant.' t.co/7Fi9XkrVHR / X


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And the story

Subject: 5 female Israeli soldiers taken hostage by Hamas seen in sick new video


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Yes 35th and SB I am completely wrong to connect the Guardian article to the pier. it is the land shipment checkpoints as you say.. I thought Brietbart had left off part of the story, jumped the gun on an outlet I do not trust, but the Guardian can be hard to take as well re bias. There have been no settlements in Gaza for years.

It seems these are organized settler groups who last week blocked and looted a convoy at a checkpoint. Someone later burned the trucks. The IDF does not intervene. They all seem to consider it a blockade. Anything to get this over with and win some peace, is my opinion.

It's certainly realistic to think that the pier goods were always going to end up with Hamas, really any other shipments too. There is no way out here that helps any civilians until Hamas is gone.

"Disturbing new video emerges from October invasion of Israel. Hamas lines up Israeli female soldiers after capture. ‘Here are the girls who can get pregnant.' t.co/7Fi9XkrVHR / X


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And the story

Subject: 5 female Israeli soldiers taken hostage by Hamas seen in sick new video

I won't watch these horrible videos. This will only make me more upset, angary, etc. This video was just mentioned on FOX also. The reporter that watched it found in very, very disturbing.

And when such videos are made public, it only makes me think again, as an IDF soldier/Ldr/Cdr there would be little quarter given to Palestinian males. If they are not surrendering, they will be suspect. Any questionable actions by those not surrendering could get them killed. I'd think that is the reality at the pointy end of the spear.

Legion my belief is too many have not seen these videos. That makes it too easy for those who attack Israel as a colonialist oppressor and as the aggressor. These videos are not shown for the most part on the MSM and when shown, are edited.

I believe children from 7th or 8th grade on, should have to watch the videos of 9/11 .. all of it, from the crashes, the people leaping to their deaths instead of being burned alive, the collapse of the towers, the people in the Middle East celebrating the death of US civilians, etc..

I also they should have watch every video of what Hamas did in October, as well as videos of the crimes of the Holocaust.

Just as the evils of slavery are currently being done in our schools.

It's funny, I remember having to watch the My Lai Massacre in Junior high School. I watched the anti war protests, including Kent State on TV and the battles and combat in Vietnam in gruesome detail. I watched as the media broadcast more and more in a biased anti U.S. manner, especially after the Tet Offensive. How Walter Cronkite specifically led the anti U.S. cause nightly. I grew up with Vietnam. If I can take it, so can today's teenagers.

I think there is so much video because of cell phones that there is a danger we will become numb. Also too many violent video games, graphic movies. But then, how to relay the reality to people who should all know the truth?

The 60s were tough. But the tech to cover events was more limited. I don't remember seeing this level of violence on tv news. I went to college the year of Kent State. People were pretty shell-shocked. The bodies pics were not graphic, we just could not believe what had happened. Never forgot it. Like the Newark riots in 67. Twenty five or so shot and killed, city in flames, smoke, hearing gunfire, armored vehicles on my street. Not as much on tv.

But almost never as gruesome as Hamas atrocities, and always edited for tv. At least this was my impression. I say almost. Except for the My Lai color photos, which the Army photographer with Calley's platoon took with his own camera. I think they were in Life magazine later. Never forgot that either.

So I think maybe it's a parental decision on viewing for kids. IMO.

Legion my belief is too many have not seen these videos. That makes it too easy for those who attack Israel as a colonialist oppressor and as the aggressor.

Many of the supporters of Hamas, anti-Israel protestors etc. they will deny it happened. I've already seen some of that when those types are interviewed by the media. We even see some of this with members of Congress.

And as long as they buy into the divisive, flawed, etc. dogma of Whites are oppressors, and everybody else are oppressed. These Kool Aid drinkers will understand nothing else. Again, some in Congress believe this too …

The first US pier trucks are delivering food to citizens. Not much, and the land routes remain restricted, some say effectively closed. Not going to make much of a difference, it seems. More like PR?

We deny each other's convictions all the time, from oppression to elections. I have seen people of all races suffering in urban areas. Who is oppressing whom does not always mean race. There are haves and have nots. Congress is not a functional entity. Both ends of the spectrum there support dogmas the center does not buy, IMO. Priorities?

Ukraine and Gaza are brutal wars. They need to end, but not without justice being served, at least to the extent possible. The job is to get it done asap, so the killing can stop. Give them the real support they need to finish it in a way that justice is served, whatever that finally means. I don't know.

The first US pier trucks are delivering food to citizens. Not much, and the land routes remain restricted, some say effectively closed. Not going to make much of a difference, it seems. More like PR?

Yes, it is an election, optics trumps pretty much everything else. Fortunately, only 3 US service members have been injured loading supplies, etc. aboard ship, IIRC. Not by enemy fire, etc. One critically the other two are back on duty. The critically injured one is in an Israeli hospital. May he recover quickly.