"Hamas vs Israel... again" Topic

SB you have nailed it. The far left does not get this. They
can support everyday Palestinians or Gazans, whatever. But FIRST these left wing pols in America must condemn Hamas in no uncertain terms and help take steps to eliminate it, even if this means supporting Israel in their push get rid of these thugs. This helps make a better world for everyone in the long run. Some how these politicians don't see that they are actually helping Palestinians the most by freeing them from the terror rule and intimidation of Hamas.

Ben, what about Iran? Thousands protest the regime there, but we just talk about Iran as a monolithic force. I know Iranians who want to be freed from the crazy medieval leaders there who are surely behind the latest atrocities. And I disagree about Ukraine. Many people go out of their way to be sure to call it Putin's War, which has a long list of its own atrocities to its credit.

Hamas keeps Gazans poor. Since the Israeli hand-over in 2005 the Gazans have received nearly $40 USD Billion in aid from the UN, the US, through efforts associated with the World Bank, direct relief groups and Arab states (primarily Quatar).

That's enough money for Hamas to have constructed NG and Solar Power to easily triple their domestic power supplies, AND clean potable water from desalinization plants for their entire population, plus billions left over for schools, hospitals and civic services.

Instead all the money went to Hamas leader's mansion in Quatar and weapons, bunkers, arms depot tunnels and training death squads.

Subject: WATCH: Israeli Tanks Follow Bulldozer Into Gaza, Pound Terrorist Targets | The Daily Wire


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Do any none Muslims in these student groups know what "Intifada" involves? The Palestinian's have no more right to this land than anyone else. I assume most here on TMP have a basic knowledge of history and how many times this area has gone through different groups. The Muslims took it from the Christians and Jews of the Byzantine Empire. The Romans dispersed most of the Jews. One can go back forever. Do the ancestors of the original occupiers even exist any longer?

Subject: Princeton Students Chant Call For Murdering Jews


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@35thOVI – NY City College the Hamas-American Bund trapped Jewish students in the college library, and terrified them by beating on the doors and windows, chanting pro-Hamas propaganda -- Free Palestine, and the lovely River to the Sea bit.

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There is a deep, deep sickness in the American education system.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intifada

Thank you DA. Intifada does not mean murder, nobody says murder, no signs say murder the Jews. The headline is scary for the wrong reasons.

The students in the library don't look terrified to me, one wants to be sure the door is locked, but seems pretty calm. They may or may not be terrified.

My concern is two-fold. One is that the protesting students have somehow ignored the context of the current war, which started with the brutal execution of Jews in Israel. Unbelievable. This is the central fact of how this latest bloodshed started. That's not infitada. I wonder how the education these kids are getting does not include learning to understand what you are protesting about. Profoundly disturbing on several levels.

The second is the way that right wing media makes no attempt to report these protests as news without taking a swing at elites,Biden, etc. We can all figure out how to shake our heads in dismay or disgust on our own if we chose. The self righteous outrage on opinion shows about the protests….please. Own the libs some other way and stop acting like the only Americans. America belongs to every citizen, some of us want our colors back.

I am reminded of the F@# News video reporting on riots in Wisconsin, the rioters sprinting around palm trees in the video. We are already angry enough, thanks.

I've said this and will say it again. These ‘#%#!' Killed, raped, tortured, burnt and took hostage, not only Israelis, they did this to our citizens too! They are shooting rockets and missiles at our troops now! Those "%#!' Protesting and calling for Intifada, supporting Palestine and by default, Hamas, to me, are traitors, to the dead and wounded US citizens. They fill me with nothing but disgust and loathing. If they are not citizens of the US, I would send them back. If they are, I would yank scholarships, make them payoff their loans and kick them out of college. I'd fire the professors who support the protests.

I feel the same about politicians and others who voice pro-Palestinian and peo-Hamas views. Once again: They KILLED our citizens!

35th,I am not disagreeing, I am saying those protesting are acting in total oblivious ignorance of what the reality of the Hamas attack was like. And those that report it should realize that and not put words in the mouths of these ignorant kids. Infitada is not defined as killing people. It's not murder. I want more reporting on Hamas, not a bunch of dumb @#$ privileged kids.

The killing of so many Americans, so near the anniversary of the killing of hundreds of American Marines at the hands of the same people, is more than enough for me to start shooting, at least taking out the Hezbollah rockets in Lebanon. I can just about guarantee that there are back channel conversations about future covert ops in the region right now with Israel and the US as well as approvals being discussed with other Arab nations. At least I hope so.

Iran was behind both the 1983 attacks on our embassy and our troops. We made a lot of mistakes. Now is the time to get it right. Those guys are pulling the strings. But getting them out of their and letting the Iranian people run their own country does not seem that simple.

Tort that was not aimed at you, sorry if you thought that. It was aimed at anyone who supports them. These students, politicians, etc.

Subject: Pro-Palestine and pro-Israel protesters clash in Skokie, Illinois – The Forward


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Subject: Charlie Kirk on X: "This is our @TPUSA staffer, Peter Christos, who is Christian, not Jewish. Yesterday, he was violently attacked while he and another TPUSA staffer were trying to escort an elderly Jewish couple away from a pro-Israel rally. On the way to their cars, they encountered pro-Hamas…" / X


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No prob..Something has got to be done about Hamas once and for all. That's what matters most. Hezbollah rose to power and status after Beirut and it has never been properly dealt with. People who are happy to blow themselves up to kill you don't leave you many options. Any issues with Israel can be dealt with later. This hideous conduct by these groups is an affront to civilization. They need to be contained or eliminated.

No matter what, free speech is free speech. Ignorance is allowed, free speech is a right. Without it we are lost. But it sure is hard to hear sometimes.

Subject: Citizen Free Press on X: "JUST IN -- U.S. warplanes have conducted air strikes against Iranian proxies in multiple locations in Syria. t.co/agKA4sc0Kx / X


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Why Did Hamas Conduct a Terrorist Attack on Israel and Why Now?

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Armand

"Gaza Order of Battle – The units of Hamas (Quasam) and the IDF Compared"- Steve Wilcox

Thank you for posting this video I was wondering about the Hamas OOB and TOE.

I disagree with the casualty assessments compared to Sadr City. I doubt Israel will be worried about collateral damage like the USA was, the IDF will preserve their lives while inflicting total carnage on Hamas.

Civilian casualties will occur due to direct combat action. Far more will die from starvation, contaminated water and disease when the number of corpses left unburied or cremated exceeds the capacity of authorities to deal with it.

They also demanded:

"Students want to school to buy them a round-trip ticket to Palestine so they can grieve properly."

I say foot the bill if they promise never to return.

Subject: Campus Reform | Stanford students demand university condemn Israel


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Based on what I have seen and read, this does not seem far off, sadly. Some exerts in case you can't read the link.

"A recent Harvard/Harris survey conducted after Hamas's terrorist attack in Israel on Oct. 7 confirms what has become sadly evident over the past few weeks: Younger Americans openly oppose Israel in its efforts to defend its people, and they even support the terrorist organization responsible for the bloodshed in the region.

Nearly half of the younger demographic, aged 18 to 24, said the atrocities Hamas committed against Israelis, including the kidnapping of women and children and the killing of hundreds, were justified. Forty-eight percent explicitly said they support Hamas, not just "the Palestinian people.""

"Under the "woke" system of thought that America's youth are being brought up in, Israel is not a nation fighting for its survival but an oppressor that has subjected Palestinians to tyranny. "

"This ideology also discounts the historical persecution of the Jewish people by pointing to their skin color and generational wealth. According to the intersectionalists of the Left, Jews are far more privileged than Palestinians simply because they look white and are the ones in charge of Israel."

"It's also why we should take very seriously the threats by "woke" ideologues to upend America and its institutions. The United States, in the eyes of the Left, is just as much at fault as Israel. And if they're willing to support acts of terrorism against a much smaller, less influential nation, what might they be willing to justify here?"

Subject: 12ft | A new survey reveals the fruits of 'woke' ideology | Washington Examiner


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Subject: Blue State Blues: I Saw the Worst, and the Best, of Humanity in Israel


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According to that poll, 65 percent of 18-24s support Israel's right to retaliate, 52 % of this group support eliminating Hamas. 88% percent of Americans overall support Israel, and 58% support Biden's efforts.

Sweeping statements about woke education are not really supported by this data. Where is the curriculum data that proves a massive national change in education? For every teacher overtly teaching woke, there is a parent somewhere looking to burn a book. But not the majorities.The sky may be cloudy but it's not falling.

These kids get their radical info from social media, where the far left and far right live, is my guess. Also where Russian and Chinese agitators interfere with American political thought, terrorists do some recruiting, and politicians rule their supporters.

Here is more on Harvard/Harris: link

Tort you have hope for them. 🙂

There are good ones and I know some, but most of the last 2 generations I have had interface with, have swallowed the woke agenda, hook, line and sinker.

I am setting right now with a group of cousins. We cannot discuss politics at all. We have one liberal in the group who goes off the rail if you mention anything other than woke agenda. But she can set around and degrade anything on the right and that's fine. Not worth the fight just to keep things civil and not civil war. 😉

I agree. We have similar holiday scenarios. I gave up moderating years ago.

I do know some good ones. They are seriously working on advanced degrees in fields we never even thought of. Ready to get to work.And some will mature and see a bigger picture.

But I have seen some who have gone too far left, which I also saw in the 60s. Remember the SDS? Colleges could be crazy then too. Times of change, stress, youthful exuberance. Too young to grasp some of the realities and focus on getting these killers first and foremost.

I do know some good ones. They are seriously working on advanced degrees in fields we never even thought of. Ready to get to work.And some will mature and see a bigger picture.

My son's STEM friends all seem pretty level-headed and throw eye-rolls at the woke stuff they have to deal with in school.

Yes, those are the ones, focused, looking ahead.

Agreed ! SB's son +1

Thanks gents! Predictably, the Humanities departments are irredeemably woke. He lucked out with choice in his English course, one gem in a pile of shite which was analyzing the writings of ancient authors like Herodotus and Thucydides. Now he has just one more mandatory non-STEM Humanities "culture and society" course and it's *all* hopeless, hopeless shite.

He can choose from *x70* Humanities classes and ALL of them are worthless hard-Left indoctrination "struggle" courses, and "decolonizing" this or that, how the US and the West is structurally racist and oppressive, and things like "Bi-Curious LatinX Film Studies" or "Chicano Cultural Studies in Context."

The old joke was that Humanities was shallow because you could study French Gothic Poetry. A class like that would be a treasure! Expose a young brain to four years of Leftist "Humanities" drivel and poison like that and we wonder why so many young people have no critical thinking skills and can't tell right from wrong anymore.

On topic – fascinating interview with the *son* of one of the founders of Hamas. He's furious with Hamas and the entire movement, with insider knowledge of someone who lived it for a huge part of his life, and feels the Palestinians can only have a future once Hamas is destroyed.

Israel-Hamas War: 'Hamas Opened Up The Gates Of Hell' – Mosab Hassan Yousef Tells Piers Morgan

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Has the urge to conquer the world and convert its inhabitants to Islam, ever really left the Muslim world? Or it just a series of stops and starts?

Some say the Koran Does not preach this, but to the orthodox, I believe it does.
Erdagon now accuses the West of being Crusaders again. It was Islam that conquered all this area. They were the original aggressors.

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them" (Sura 9:5). "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads" (Sura 47:4). "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate" (Sura 9:73). "The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan" (Sura 4:76). Who are these idolaters and unbelievers and infidels? Those who are not strict Muslims. "Muhammad is God's Apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" (Sura 48:29).

For the orthodox Muslim, the Koran's commands are valid for all time. Fifteen hundred years later, Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini (a better authority on the Koran than either Smalley or I) is able to say, "Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Islam says Kill them (the non-Muslims), put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you!" (quoted in "Islam Unveiled" by Robert Spencer, p. 35)."

Subject: Türkiye to introduce Israel to world as war criminal: Turkish President Erdogan


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As I said before, Turkey may be part of NATO … but they are moslems first …

Seems Pogroms aren't forgotten.

Subject: Pro-Palestinian rioters storm Russian airport, flood runway looking for Israeli flight: officials


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We have many yelling many anti Israeli things in our country. They are a mix of many races, religions and non-religious individuals. If they are citizens of the US, they are United States individuals. If these are citizens of Russia, they are Russians.

Thank you, 35th….

Welcome.

Subject: At the army base where Israel identifies its dead: ‘They went from house to house burning family after family'


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FWIW –

The Butchers Bill/Body Count since 07 OCT 2023 :

Over 1400 Israelis killed

About 260+ IDF KIA

Hostages – about 230 in terrorist hands.

Hamas/ilsamic terrorists over 1500, most killed in Israel, by IDF on 07-09 Oct 2023.

55 Hamas high ranking leaders + many dozens of terrorists since the IDF started to bomb, attack, etc. in Gaza.

Hamas claims 8k Palestinians killed in Gaza[very questionable].

The IDF has to eliminate Hamas as we did ISIS.

Iranian military, oil, etc. targets must be hit every time they attack US troops in the area.

@Italwars1, if you think I am defending any of these anti Jewish bigots, you have not been reading my posts. 🙂 please go back through this thread and reread my posts. Also I think Hamas should be eradicated.

All I meant was, no matter the religion or ethnicity of those in Russia, if they are citizens of Russia, they are Russian.

Strangely, Hamas itself has admitted that the Israeli bombardment is incredibly precise and focused. Almost impossibly so.

Hamas claims about 50 hostages killed by Israeli airstrikes. About 22%, then. Since hostages are held at military facilities- by definition wherever Hamas is holding hostages is a military facility, all of these deaths are collateral deaths at legitimate military targets.

Hamas also claims about 5000 civilian deaths from Israeli bombing. That's about 0.22%- coincidentally about 100 times the hostage death rate.

Even if we assume NONE of these were civilians located at military facilities, by Hamas's own figures, the death rate at military facilities is 100x the death rate outside military facilities.

That shows incredible focus on military facilities. If the bombing was "indiscriminate" the two numbers ought to converge, but to be apart by a factor of 100, amazing.

I don't believe any nation has ever done better, except in wars limited to naval battles.

To calibrate: WW2 Germany, the German military suffered 4 million dead out of 18 million in uniform-by coincidence about the same percent that Hamas has claimed for the hostages. Meanwhile, German civilian deaths were about 3 million (sources vary considerably) out of 80 million. At 3.8%, much lower death rate than the military but well above the civilian death rate Hamas is claiming. And this is after Hamburg, Dresden, and the hell unleashed by the advancing Soviets.

Or perhaps Hamas just makes up numbers on the fly, which leads to the question-why do journalists around the world bother to report them?

Subject: Authorities investigating online threats of violence against Jewish students at Cornell University, school's president says


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Subject: Israeli officials identify Shani Louk's body, beheaded by ‘sadistic animals' | Fox News


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35th you have been right all along about the colleges. Cornell of all places, out in the middle of upstate NY and a revered institution. Very disturbing as this seems to be growing.

Yes sadly. But maybe it will lead to a revaluation. Maybe this will finally bring a change and make Colleges a learning experience again where all views are heard and respected again.

I believe these extremists are a minority, but others are afraid to challenge them and unfortunately these extremists are backed by many administrators.

I guess I can hope. 🙂

You might find this interesting

Subject: Opinion: Nothing has prepared me for the antisemitism I see on college campuses now


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I just do not get it…I work part time in a college where none of this is happening as far as I can tell. This is such a huge shift that it must have been building up over time. I see the Feds are speaking out and keeping a much closer eye on this than a couple of weeks ago. It's critical to ID the sources.

That is amazing, and it is not only in the USA. But many places in the world. The left woke socialists progressives have infiltrated everywhere. They are even in our gov't … These anti-Jewish protesters have certainly pushed the envelope. But like with everything else with LEOs being emasculated, these sheep are not afraid to do anything. And the college presidents, etc. are too afraid to do their jobs. As they don't want to be called islamophobic,, racist, etc. So the kids get their way.

They don't get it or maybe they do … ? The pro-Palestinian protesters are actually supporting Hamas.

What Russia Hopes to Gain From the Israel-Hamas Conflict

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Armand

I said the same thing earlier, Legion. I bet most of these kids have never seen a dead body in the street, heard automatic weapons, felt the concussion of explosive weapons. They do not seem to connect with the reality of this.

The issues of the Palestinians are real, but Hamas is a major part of the problem and in no way a solution. As long as they exist there will be no justice for either side. Crushing them is a step on the road to peace.

The Palestinian issues with Israel won't be solved by killing people. Thats no way to advocate for a solution. I would expect higher education to impart some wisdom on this in the strongest possible ways. Free speech yes, but this is like yelling "Fire! " in a crowded theater.

Oh, and it's important that federal law enforcement is working on getting some IDs on who is actually fanning these flames. The Cornell case is a good place to start as it lends itself to using criminal investigative procedures. Right now is a bad time to defund the FBI.

If these students feel this strongly, why don't they leave to fight alongside Hamas and the Palestinian people? 🤔 Because they might die?

Subject: Jewish students at Georgetown Law fear violence amid heated rhetoric from classmates and anti-Israeli groups | Fox News


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Subject: Journalist and Israeli activist gets bodyguard in NYC after receiving death threats – YouTube


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Subject: End Wokeness on X: "MN City Council candidate Zach Metzger blocked off a highway and terrorized an old white man driving past a pro-Palestine riot He posted the video today and instructed his followers to find the old man. He has since deleted the post. We saved it. Drone footage shows a mob… t.co/bI6BvgkrqM / X

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Subject: Pro-Palestinian protesters scale part of Brooklyn Bridge, force shutdown of iconic NYC artery | Fox News

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1st hostage freed by IDF/Shin Bet operation. Shame she was on her own but a win is a win.

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Subject: Yale newspaper censors piece by pro-Israel writer: ‘Unsubstantiated claims that Hamas raped women' | Fox News


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Short video with commentator Ami Horowitz on Columbia where thousands of students marched in support of Hamas and the destruction of Israel:

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Many of them seem pretty brainless and zombielike. They've been brainwashed into a Leftist Protest Culture to march and chant regardless of the cause so long as their Protest Culture groups support it. They mindlessly chant slogans yawped from a bullhorn by the organizers. They don't want to hear anything about the issue, don't want to examine anything, they want to stay with their Tribe and chant and scream -- even hiding their faces from Horowitz as he challenges them, like a little kid looking away and pretending something doesn't exist.

Then at the end the student organizer, born in the US or been here since he was a child, enthusiastically promoting Genocide.

And in California the University of California Ethnic Studies Council that acts as a coordinating body for those departments on all nine universities came out in favor of Hamas and demanded the UC system stop being critical of Hamas.

The University of California Ethnic Studies Faculty Council condemned the school system's president and board of regents chair for calling Hamas "terrorists" in the days after the militant group invaded Israel and targeted civilians, saying the comments "distort" the "unfolding genocide" of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

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Even turning on their own

Subject: UKR REPORT on X: "#NEW ⚡️🇺🇸🇮🇱🇵🇸Protests began when Secretary of State Blinken was speaking in the Senate about the $14 USD billion requested for Israel. t.co/ZvIJbqzo05 / X


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Subject: Brief NEWS for YOU on X: "A historical photo While US Secretary of State Blinken is demanding $14 USD billion for Israel in the Senate, blood-stained hands protest. t.co/DZwA3iKZKE / X


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I don't know how many times Iranian "proxies" have fired on our troops now since October 7. At least 24 plus. We have blown up an ammo dump. 😔 the administration says this is separate from the Israeli Hamas conflict, but we know it's not. Let's not forget how many of our citizens Hamas killed on the 7th and took hostage.

When will we "really" retaliate?

We have traitors in our country supporting the enemy. We were attacked! What would we have done with any how publicly supported Japan in WW2?

Subject: Iranian Quds Force head said in Lebanon coordinating possible widening of war | The Times of Israel


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They can cover by saying "we don't support Hamas", but "From the River to the sea", means the genocide of the Jewish people. I Don't call them anti semites. There are many semites in the world. But these are specifically, anti Jew. No different than the Nazis nor those who have practiced pogroms in the past. They see "white oppressors" with Israel. They have been indoctrinated that all things white are evil and bad. They don't realize that they have become like the brown shirted thugs of the 30's.

Lastly why do they hide their faces? At least the Brown Shirts went unmasked.