"Hamas vs Israel... again" Topic

Dragon … stay frosty … I got your 6 …

FYI- Just saw on FOX news that the Sec Def just put more US forces on prepare to deploy orders. My guess – 173d Abn Bde, 75th Rangers, 82d Abn, the 101 and possibly the 10th Mtn … Plus I'm sure a number of USMC units … But probably not …

Upping the stakes ? Regardless unless the USA takes direct actions by putting very strict sanctions on Iran. They get 0 funds from the USA. And maybe next time they play chicken … the USN & USAF slaps them around a bit reminding them who has the big guns. They are responsible for the massacre that happened in Israel. They are responsible for the rockets that were targeting US Forces in Iraq and Syria a few days ago. And they are Hezbollah's main supplier…

They need to take a little pain for their murderous crimes.

"Faltaning Gaza as dragon gunner sujests will only sow the seeds of the next generation of gazan hamas teroists"- Quartermass

I am not suggesting this out of spite or hate for the Palestinians. Israel has to destroy Hamas and Islamic Jihad and that means entering the Gaza Strip and conducting MOUT operations. Israeli casualties will be enormous if they try to enter buildings and tunnels to preserve civilian infrastructure. It is far better to stand off, level a building and follow up with an immediate assault through the rubble if it is being used as a fortification. Tunnels should not be entered at all if it can be avoided.

Yes it will sow hate for future generations I am aware of that. At this point diplomacy is probably not going to work or even wanted by all belligerents involved. It will be interesting to see what comes after the war, I doubt Israel will ever let this return to the status quo.

Anyone have any other solutions on this day at this time?

"Dragon … stay frosty … I got your 6 …"

Thank you Legion4

With hindsight I wish the USA had taken in all the Jews at the end of World War Two then we would not have this mess. I cannot get excited about holy dirt, rocks or buildings it's just real-estate to me. (I am not Jewish or Muslim)

"Yes it will sow hate for future generations I am aware of that."

And hammas continue and the next attack will be worse and around and around we go.

"At this point diplomacy is probably not going to work or even wanted by all belligerents involved"

Well we know hamas don't want it, I'm not entirely sure
Netanyahu wants it
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"with hindsight I wish the USA had taken in the Jews at the end of World War Two"

On this point were in total agreement but I doubt the Zionist's would have settled for any thing less than Israel since they had been gunning for it since the 19th century.

And you can call me "Quartermaster" if you like.

Dragon gunner- I agree with much of your 0829 PST post except the bit where you talk about it sowing "hate for future generations".

I don't think it will have any such effect- the hate is already there and will be there in future whatever Israel does. There is an infinite store cupboard of murderous sectarian hate that masquerades as grievance and victimhood. Israel could behave like Costa Rica or Sweden and it would still be hated for what it IS, regardless of what it does.

That visceral hate is also found in other Arab and wider Muslim world populations, notwithstanding the realpolitik approach of several governments (inc Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, even Saudi…) towards Israel. Israel's actions could affect that realpolitik- hence why Iran, if not the instigator of hamas atrocities on this occasion, is desperately trying to stoke up and broaden the conflict to place Arab governments in an impossible situation.

The events of a couple of Saturdays ago is changing that victimhood narrative somewhat- as hamas is clearly capable of really deliberate up close and personal atrocities that even isis might think twice about committing. But hamas did commit them and showed its hideous true colours.

It's very disappointing therefore that there are still many people in the West who try to make some sort of perverted equation between the actions of the IDF and those of hamas. The anti-semitism of the far right and far left in Western countries is very deeply entrenched unfortunately.

And yet the 2nd largest population of Palestinians in the world live in Israel.

100,000 people just marched in London in support of Hamas. ONE. HUNDRED. THOUSAND.

The rally was joined by members of the far-left, including people waving banners and placards from the Socialist Worker, while others were filmed waving the flag of the radical militant Antifa group

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That's above average for London, its kinda tradition.
What is unusual is how close the March's are together.

Socialist worker turn up with a van full of placards and gives them out to random people and are quite pushy about it,they try to make them self's look bigger than they are.

That photo of Palestinian supporters protesting which in turn is support for Hamas. As a good percentage [55% ?] of Palestinians support Hamas directly, indirectly or even just tacit support.

We see the socialists, anarchists, progressive left, etc. have taken root in the USA. The nation has some very vocal large groups that want change the USA to suit them. Not what the majority of Americans want.

They have infiltrated learning institutions at all levels. Preaching this far left progressive dogma. If anyone doubts this just look at that photo of anti-USA, a de facto support for Hamas.

Subject: Israeli army releases footage of first operational use of ‘Iron Sting' munition destroying rocket launcher | Fox News


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SBMinisguy. 100,000? Maybe. More likely the difference between the number Trump claimed for his inauguration and the rather smaller number actually there.

That said- whatever the real number of marchers- it is still too many.

If one looks at things like UK newsfeeds though- I would say from the responses to various articles that the great majority (c4 or 5 to 1) feel nothing but revulsion towards hamas, and agree that Israel needs to defend itself- with the inevitable consequences that must bring.

SBMinisguy. 100,000? Maybe. More likely the difference between the number Trump claimed for his inauguration and the rather smaller number actually there.

Not my number -- if your READ the article instead of reflexively dismissing it and then attacking Trump for some bizarre reason, the information comes from British police authorities:

The Metropolitan Police said that up to 100,000 people joined a rally to support Palestine

And from the Metropolitan Police Twitter feed:

Metropolitan Police
@metpoliceuk
Our colleagues at
@NPASLondon
really are invaluable on days like today giving us a real time overview of events as they take place on a #PublicOrder day! 🚁

As of 1400 hours we now estimate the numbers in the demonstration to be up to 100,000; the front remains on Whitehall. 👀

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Been watching the news almost all day. Footage almost worldwide shows large demonstrations/protests, etc. In some places like Yemen, it certainly looks like many thousands …

Note: these protests are overwhelmingly vilifying Israel and supporting Palestine/Hamas … Even after Hamas committed horrific crimes against humanity, etc. Now not all Palestinians are Hamas of course, but enough for Hamas, islamic jihad, etc. to be supported in Gaza & the West Bank and grow. Hamas AFAIK is almost all Palestinian …

Polls show that in the USA the vast majority support Israel. With much less for Palestine/Hamas. However, like many hard corps movements they are a very vocal rabble … Fueled with hatred. And supported directly by a few woke progressive members of the US Congress.

Strange days indeed …

Leigon
Regarding the London demo
I'd be surprised if it was 10% sapport for hamas.

It has occurred to me that in London and Britain aleast that what you are seeing is yes pro Palestine but possibly also anti areal bombing the theory I'm sujesting is that their a truma in the collective subconscious from the bombing campaign's of ww2.

For example after 9/11 their was a huge ground swell of sympathy and support for the American people which disappeared with the bombing of Baghdad.
Just a though.

One might note that the mobs supporting Hamas are not the descendants of those who survived the bombing campaigns of WW2.

Somehow, despite the predictions of Hamas's cheerleaders, the bombing of Germany, including the horrors of Dresden and Hamburg, did NOT produce generations of psychotic murderous terrorists.

Japan had an even more intense experience- as did China and the Philippines, neither of which seem to have issues with anti-Japanese terror campaigns. But in the Philippines, the Moros, who were NOT on the receiving end of a strategic bombing campaign, fought fanatically against Americans AND Japanese and had a terror campaign against Christian Filipinos for decades afterwards, until apparently sputtering out a few years ago. Fundamentalist muslims, including the Malaysian government, were their bankers and cheerleaders.

Wartime bombing does not produce terrorists. Cheerleading for terrorists produces terrorists, because it teaches children that to be a terrorist is to be admired and respected.

For example after 9/11 their was a huge ground swell of sympathy and support for the American people which disappeared with the bombing of Baghdad.
Just a though.

The sympathy actually disappeared as soon as America responded by taking down the Taliban. As a prostrate victim we got support, but asserting the right to self defense and response loses you support. Guess I'd rather be alive with "world" disapproval than dead with their approval.

Interesting small bit of news, the Hamas murder squads were all stoned to the gills on a methamphetamine pill called "Captagon" -- kinda like how the Nazi Einsatztruppen genocide squads in WW2 used Pervitin to get themselves into a murder mood.

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'Guess I'd rather be alive with "world" disapproval than dead with their approval.'

Guessing this would be the Israeli approach as well. And good on them.

Regarding the London demo
I'd be surprised if it was 10% sapport for hamas.

Good to know … To support any terrorist atrocities in the name of liberating their people is wrong. One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist.

Regardless … there is no excuse for what Hamas did is the Palestinians' name on 07 Oct. …

For example after 9/11 their was a huge ground swell of sympathy and support for the American people which disappeared with the bombing of Baghdad.

Did not disappear in many places in the USA. The 2d Gulf War may not have been justified by some/many … But if you are going to go to war you have to take the measures to make that war successful. I.e. Taking out ADA, C3, supply, etc. to effectively wage that war. To keep your losses as low as possible. We see this going on in Gaza right now. The IDF is shaping the battle space, prepping for an offensive, etc.

CD is always a concern, and everything that can be done to mitigate it is SOP. But at times … CD is unavoidable. I have heard about too many times US troops in Iraq & A'stan called for FA or CAS support. And was denied by high for fear of CD. As a former Plt Ldr and Co. Cdr that equates to now my troops may take losses. I don't want to kill non-combatants, but I don't want my troops sustain losses either. My choice is to save my troops and accomplish the mission.

Wartime bombing does not produce terrorists. Cheerleading for terrorists produces terrorists, because it teaches children that to be a terrorist is to be admired and respected.

Exactly … as we see today in the USA. The protests are for freeing Palestine, and it is alright to murder, rape, etc. as Hamas did on 07 Oct. To get that state free … Atrocities are never right no matter what the reasons …

From my POV, over 1500 Hamas terrorists that crossed into Israel were killed. To stop Hamas that number has to be many, many times more than that.

And we must no forget who is behind all this … Iran … They have to be punished. Along with very strong sanctions the US may have to take out some key location there. E.g. their new oil refinery would be on my target list. If bad behavior is not addressed, then it is like an acceptance for them to it again.

IMO the current US Gov't is too concerned about appeasing Iran. As our leadership is weak and thinks we must repay them for what the USA did. Decades ago, when the US supported the Shah. Madness … As long as Iran wants nukes and supports terrorism it should be on the target list.

Legion & Sbminiguy

I find alot of Legions posts thought provokeing his post provoked a thought about the British.
I'm not saying its true or particularly willing to back it up just something that came to me and thought I'd share.

Re the pro Palestine protest
If you hear about a bunch of protesters chanting jihad
This was a separate tiny protest on the same day.

There is a relatively long tradition of pro-Palestinian political action in the UK – largely centred on the left (who I have say I think have missed the memos about the realities of Palestinian political control). Its very much a spectrum of views. But some of them will almost certainly view Hama's atrocity spree as being ultimately Israel's own fault… I'd also add these days it does attract UK's very small population of resident Salafists wingnuts and ironically some on the hard-right for 'reasons'.

The history of the area is long and complicated. The USA hasn't always been the unconditional backer of Israel it is these days. And a little anecdote, there was an old guy who lived on the road I grew up on, who had done his national service in Palestine at the end of the British mandate when we disarmed the Arab's… Apparently at least in some cases those weapons ended up back in the hands of the Arabs. Lets just say sympathies might not always have been where people now might imagine them.

Subject: New Israeli unit has one goal: Kill all terrorists involved in massacre – Israel News – The Jerusalem Post


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Re the pro Palestine protest
If you hear about a bunch of protesters chanting jihad
This was a separate tiny protest on the same day.

Some years ago I was travelling on business to the UK, and when I had a day off my wife and I went to the National Gallery in London. It so happened that a pro-Islamist rally was consuming Trafalgar Square with several thousand people in attendance that day. I had never experienced that much organized mass hate and anger before. Most of the men wore keffiyehs masking their faces and balaclavas. Most of the women were covered. There was a sea of islamist banners in angry reds, greens and blacks. The speakers in Arabic only were screaming at full throated roar, punctuated by the crowd screaming Allahu Akbar!! and punching their fists into the air, some with their hands extended like a Nazi salute.

It was the nearest thing to a 1930s Nazi rally that any contemporary person could experience. It's only gotten worse.

Let's say only 10% of that mass crowd really really supported Hamas' murderous actions. That's 10,000 Nazis. let's say that only 10% of them would act on their hate -- that's 1000 terrorists who would kill women, children, babies, as "resistance."

We brought this on ourselves, allowing people from hostile cultures to migrate and then not only did we not ask them to assimilate to become British or French or American, at the direct action of the Left they urged them to stay angry outsiders. To keep them as an outside victim group they could organize to promote their own domestic political agendas and as a "moral" center from which to attack opponents as racist.

I just read that the head of a very liberal Jewish temple in the US in Detroit was stabbed to death, multiple stab wounds. She was a well-connected leftist Democrat, her temple is a model of nigh a-religious multiculturalism and she spent time doing outreach to the large muslim community in Detroit. Now she's been slashed to death and the media and political establishment are pretending they have no idea why -- "police have no motive" and "it's unclear if the deadly attack was linked to the violence in Gaza." How could this be, the articles wonder, she was essentially a "good Jew," a muslim ally!!

This sick game of pretending what is, is not, must stop before it consumes our societies.

"This sick game of pretending what is, is not, must stop before it consumes our societies"

I hope you don't think that's a game I'm playing.
I'm sorry you had that experience in my home town,I hope it didn't spoil your visit to the national gallery a place I love to go to.
Did you see our collection of
Van Gogh's?
I don't know how many Muslims live in the UK but what i do know is the total percentage of ethnic minority's is roughly 14% with 4% bing black British,African & carabinier.
Where I live their is a large Muslim community and a large Orthodox Jewish community and just about every type of person you can think of.

Their hasn't been one point in the recorded history of the British Ilse when it wasn't a multicultural country.

There have been Muslims in Britain since the 16th century, with communities developing from the late-1900s in the port cities of London, Cardiff, Glasgow, Liverpool, Tyneside and Hull.

It hasn't always worked but where it does its where every one is mixed together where it doesn't its generally due to ghettoization.

Subject: New Israeli unit has one goal: Kill all terrorists involved in massacre – Israel News – The Jerusalem Post

Atlast some action rather than reaction good hunting guys.

I find alot of Legions posts thought provokeing his post provoked a thought about the British.
I'm not saying its true or particularly willing to back it up just something that came to me and thought I'd share.

Hey ! I'm pro-Brit ! I generally have little argument with the Brits here. Or anywhere else … God Save the King ! I noticed the King has parachute wings on his uniform during the ceremonies. He is OK with me !

As far as the war in Gaza. The IDF has no choice but to reign death and destruction on Hamas, Hezbollah, islamic terrorists, etc. This atrocity can't be overlooked or forgiven. And yes, good hunting troopers !

IMO the weak, feckless, woke, liberal US leadership will not take the actions needed to punish Iran for their support of islamic terrorism. Support to the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

40 years ago today 241 US Marines were killed in Lebanon by islamic terrorists at their barracks with a suicide truck bomb. Those terrorists were supported by Iran & Syria. Iran has to reap the whirlwind. The last POTUS had this type of thing under control, like the US border. Plus, the last POTUS fired 60 TLAMs at Syria. Killed Iran's Suleimani with a drone, crippled ISIS and killed their leader Al Baghdadi.

These people only understand and respect power and strength. These current US leaders don't have the right stuff. And our enemies saw that very quickly. And are taking full advantage of it. E.g.; the A'stan debacle, Putin's Ukraine invasion and now another war with islamic terrorists.

Yes, we have 2 USN CVN Grps in the region, an LPD with 2000 USMC. USAF aircraft are also deploying to the region as well. I highly doubt the current US leadership will do anything with this.

Iran will push the envelope again and get away with it. When they play chicken with the USA, a few TLAMs on their new oil refinery would be a good wake up call.

And 0 money of any kind should come from the US to Iran or Palestine. And sanctions put on them should be very, very strict as before. Shutdown the border to mitigate islamic terrorists, criminals, spies etc. from entering the USA. We are in 2 de facto wars. Play a little hardball … but you got to wear a cup …

@quartermas

This sick game of pretending what is, is not, must stop before it consumes our societies.

That comment is a statement of general grievance and not aimed at you, sorry you took it that way.

Their hasn't been one point in the recorded history of the British Ilse when it wasn't a multicultural country.

That's incorrect. Don't mistake ethnic background with national culture, which is again, a game the Left has roped us into playing. Britain has its own culture, as does every nation, and one can become British no matter what their ethnic and culture of origin background when you adopt and live by British cultural norms and mores.

There is no "multiculturalism" in Britain. If you are British, despite being born in Pakistan or India and enjoy CTM -- or from Hong Kong, or from Trinidad and you love Calypso music, you hold common values like:

Rule of Law
Redress of grievances through the legal system
Respect for the Individual
Equal rights for all citizens
Private property rights
A culture of "trust-based society" and values of fair play

British Culture. Not "Multiculture." No "Multicultural" state can survive long.

This thread has been politicized into one of the most divisive threads ever. There is not much you can do about being Brietbarted. The response never changes. There is nothing we can say here about the functioning of the last POTUS or the current Congress.

A bunch of strident, intransigent, political rhetoric much of which is pointless to even discuss by now. One side knows it is right and is certain that everything bad originates from the other side. This is not a reference to Hamas and Israel. Think about it. Or not.

SB, I live part time in the Scotland where my family comes from and I don't know what the @#$& you are talking about. My culture is getting in the way. Nor does a perfect democratic government fully exist in the US or the UK. But I also know there is no discussion to be had, even if I was the worlds leading expert.

SB, I live part time in the Scotland where my family comes from and I don't know what the @#$& you are talking about. My culture is getting in the way.

Ok, let's try again.

There's no such thing as Multicultural Societies. They don't exist. Every Society has a dominant Culture that sets the standard for norms/mores/cultural practices for everyone else despite the existence of subcultures.

History has shown time and time again that when a dominant culture weakens and can no longer perpetuate itself, it falls and is replaced by another dominant culture.

You can have Multiethnic Societies, but they will exist under the social structure of a Dominant culture. In olden days you would only experience a Multiethnic Society via Empires that had conquered other peoples and imposed a Dominant culture on them.

Today Multiethnic Societies are pretty much unique to Western European States and perhaps to a lesser extent former colonies based on Western Cultural principles of:

Rule of Law
Redress of grievances through the legal system
Respect for the Individual
Equal rights for all citizens
Private property rights
A culture of "trust-based society" and values of fair play

Under Western Cultural norms a person from any ethnic background and culture of origin will be generally tolerated or accepted as long as they live by these cultural norms.

Make sense?

'I don't know how many Muslims live in the UK'

3.8 million in 2021 in England and Wales. Doesn't include illegals so factoring that in (and Scotland) clearly over 4 million. So not as higher percentage as France or Germany, and unlikely to ever be according to EU demographic predictions. (i.e. Germany will be 20% by 2050).

SB, in my opinion, this definition of culture is narrow even by academic standards. I am no expert. I don't read conservative philosophy. I am firmly in the middle, where I think culture includes more than social contracts and legalities.

I just saw a poster at a doctor's office with a picture of Geronimo and the caption "Fighting off terrorists since 1492".

"A Pentagon official announced on Tuesday that U.S. troops in the Middle East have been attacked 13 times in the last week.

The attacks were carried out with rockets and one-way drones. U.S. Department of Defense spokesman Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder explained that, between October 17 and 24, American troops in Iraq were attacked 10 times.

During the same time frame, U.S. troops in Syria were attacked three times.

At a Monday briefing, a senior defense official said that they expected to see a "significant escalation" of attacks against American troops due to the war.

"I think it's fair to say when you see this uptick in activity in attacks by many of these groups, there's Iranian fingerprints all over it," the defense official explained. "

Subject: Israel sees Gaza ground invasion inevitable, insists no US veto – Al-Monitor: Independent, trusted coverage of the Middle East


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As 35th OVI pointed out. A number of times US troops in Syria and Iraq have taken fire recently. With a number of WIAs …

What was the US Gov't's response to these attacks with rocket, etc. ? Fired my Shia militias. That Iran gave them to attack US personnel.

AFAIK the US did nothing. But wanted to give Iran money ?

@Tortorella

SB, in my opinion, this definition of culture is narrow even by academic standards. I am no expert. I don't read conservative philosophy. I am firmly in the middle, where I think culture includes more than social contracts and legalities.

Not "conservative philosophy" – it's just how things work. You don't have to be an "expert" to understand that while yes, the food you eat, the language you speak at home, your religion, etc. are components of culture, by and large in the West there are the foundational cultural values I've described. I'm not talking at all about legalities. Yes, that's part of it, but these cultural values are self apparent if you spend a minute to think about the assumptions you have during your daily life – what you expect as "your rights" and "fair play" and so on. These are core foundational values that, if someone adopts and lives by those values, makes them British.

If someone moves to Britain and supports Honor Killings and Sharia Law, then they may be a legal citizen but they are not living by British cultural values.

And you have trouble identifying your own cultural values thanks to some 70 years by the Left to deconstruct, demoralize and confuse people in order to undermine your core values and replace it with their own. Multiculturalism is a successful tool because it plays to one of our own cultural values of fair play, and a general dislike of perceived arrogance.

"Who are YOU to say British culture is more valuable than others!?! Why, don't you know all the awful things Britain has done? Who are YOU to judge another culture and condemn how they live when your own culture sucks?"

I just saw a poster at a doctor's office with a picture of Geronimo and the caption "Fighting off terrorists since 1492".

Yep, typical cultural relativism, like the Apache and Sioux didn't prey on and exterminate and enslave weaker tribes, and otherwise act as human beings living in accord with a Tribal Culture where only your Tribe = real people. Everyone else is an Outsider, and don't really count as a human being.

If you don't know your own culture, you become morally confused and you can't defend or promote it against others who are firmer in their cultural convictions. And that's how you get 100,000 pro-Hamas marchers thronging the streets of London, and High School kids calling for the extermination of Israel.

@Italwars1

Are you really sure about that ?

Yes -- IF you adopt British culture. That's what I said, eh?

how can UK society , governments and, above all, Crown, tolerate , legalize and even encourage , in their lands, unacceptable and embarrassing "dysfunctions" such as the "Sharia law courts"

They should not, nor should any British citizen. That's on you as a British voter. Just like in the US we've allowed the Left to spin the line of multicultural moral relativism in order to demoralize and undermine criticism, while also creating Ghetto-ized captive minority populations they bribe and control via racialist identity politics, set-asides and welfare, and then use these people who they encourage NOT to adopt the parent culture in order to use them for moral posturing against the parent Culture, and as street activists.

I mean – does British Culture support killing your wife or daughter if they "dishonor' you?

Does British Culture support execution for being Gay?

Does British Culture include the forcible conversion or execution of you have the wrong religion? Or no religion?

Does British Culture support the punishment and imprisonment of people who "wrong speak"? Oh, maybe today it does -- but should it?

Does British Culture support the near chattelization of the female population by a strict patriarchy?

Does British Culture support the mass murder of Jews?

Does British Culture support the centralized command and control of the economy by an anointed class?

Well, at least you have moved you goal posts a bit SB. Culture is an ambiguous concept and many folks would include other attributes along with your original list.
Like many older Americans I am uncomfortable with much of the historic revisionism that is taking place, especially from the far left and right. Some is long overdue, much is over the top political thuggery.

"Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan referred to Hamas terrorists as a "liberation group" trying to protect the Palestinian people.

In an address to his ruling party's legislators on Wednesday, Erdogan also said he has canceled plans to visit Israel as part of his country's policy of normalizing its relations with the Jewish state, adding that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had "misused our goodwill."

Erdogan sharpened his criticisms of Israel, describing the siege of Gaza as one of the "bloodiest, most disgusting and most savage attacks in history."

"We have no problem with the Israeli state, but we never have, and never will, accept the atrocities committed by Israel and the fact that it acts as an organization rather than a state," he said.

The Turkish leader called for an immediate cease-fire, for humanitarian aid to be allowed into Gaza and for talks for the release of hostages to begin. He also suggested the establishment of an international peace conference for Israel and the Palestinians.

"All sides must pull their fingers off the trigger, a cease-fire must be declared," he said.

The Associated Press contributed to this update."

All these politicians and protestors who support the Hamas and ISIS terrorists who attacked Israeli civilians should be filmed reading the Hamas Charter out loud and declaring their support for their actions.

To prove he's sincere, Erdogan should back up his words and take in all women and children from Gaza as refugees to show his humanitarian support.

Gaza Order of Battle – The units of Hamas (Quasam) and the IDF Compared

YouTube link

Very interesting OOB …

FWIW – None of the Palestinian's Arab moslem brothers in other countries in the region want to take the refugees.

Of course, one progressive woke member of Congress said the USA should take a million Palestinian refugees. A ridiculous statement. Especially with the wide-open Southern border.

Another thing I heard is that some believe that Hezbollah won't make a full-scale attack. As they took a beating in 2006 when fighting the IDF. IIRC, the IDF took losses too, but nothing like Hezbollah.

So, we will have to wait and see when the IDF goes on the offensive in Gaza. Right now, they only act as a diversion keeping IDF in place guarding the Northern border. Trading shots with the IDF.

Well, at least you have moved you goal posts a bit SB. Culture is an ambiguous concept and many folks would include other attributes along with your original list.

Nope, Culture's a very easy concept to grasp -- you're exhibiting muddy thinking because you don't want to be judged as being judgmental. Which is why the Left invented "multiculturalism" in the first place, and why hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions of people, in the West are faced with the most Black and White cultural judgement you can make – and coming up short:

Do you support the deliberate mass murder of civilians or not?

Do you support rape and execution squads shooting grannies and kids, raping little girls and cutting off their heads or not?

Do you support throwing hand grenades into a storm shelter and executing the survivors, or not?

Do you support machinegunning kids and young people at a music festival, or not?

Which *Culture* says all of the above is Good, and which Culture says all of the above is Bad?

And which Culture do you then support?

Should be a no-brainer.

FWIW – None of the Palestinian's Arab moslem brothers in other countries in the region want to take the refugees.

Yes, because they know the PLO/Hamas/Fatah monster they helped create to attack Israel always turns on them:

* Attempted assassination of the King and failed coup to take over Jordan led to their expulsion from Jordan

* Destabilization and collapse of Lebanon into Civil War, and after multiple attacks on Israel, Israel invaded and ejected them from Lebanon.

*Destabilization of Tunisia and use of Tunisian soil to train and stage terror attacks led retaliation by Israel, leading to their general expulsion by the Tunisian government.

* Attempted destabilization of Egypt and terrorist attacks on Egyptian officials and tourism spots led to their expulsion from Egypt, and eventually Egypt closed their Gaza border.

Subject: Air Force police open fire on driver attempting to run gate of Texas base | Fox News

Probe? The guards all missed?? He got away? So many things wrong here. 🙄

link

SB Here's what I think a lot of people think. Destroy Hamas, Hezbollah, and the dictatorship in Iran. Support the Iranian people who are trying to fight the regime. Try not to kill Palestinian children. Secure the safety of Israel, then you can talk about its deficiencies vs the non-terrorist Palestinians and try to make some headway.

You already know hardly any Americans support the horrors you describe. Unless you yourself decide that supporting the Palestinians is the same as supporting Hamas. I think it's not that simple.

So it was not wrong to kill American Indian women and children, because they sometimes did this to themselves? I doubt you are thinking this.

You seem to have the clarity and conviction of being certain you are right. I am only saying I don't necessarily agree. We are not that far apart.

SB Here's what I think a lot of people think. Destroy Hamas, Hezbollah, and the dictatorship in Iran. Support the Iranian people who are trying to fight the regime. Try not to kill Palestinian children. Secure the safety of Israel, then you can talk about its deficiencies vs the non-terrorist Palestinians and try to make some headway.

I agree.

You already know hardly any Americans support the horrors you describe. Unless you yourself decide that supporting the Palestinians is the same as supporting Hamas. I think it's not that simple.

Indeed, but vocal and committed minorities can steer entire nations, so you must resist them and push back.

And if you indeed want to support the Palestinians and not Hamas, then take action to do so! Get your politicians to:

1. Unequivocally condemn Hamas
2. Sever all ties with Hamas and declare they no longer are legitimate and do not represent the Palestinian people
3. Seize all Hamas assets
4. Issue arrest warrants for all Hamas leaders, fighters and agents
5. Organize direct relief to the Palestinians in negotiation with Egypt and Israel at secure areas within Gaza
6. Offer safe passage to a country of choice that will have them (including your own) to any Palestinian who will agree to be background checked and found to have no ties to Hamas or other terrorist organizations, and who will go on record as condemning Hamas.
7. If there is to be an independent Gaza, and remember we already have a Two State Solution (Jordan and Israel) then there will need to be joint UN/Israel Occupation to de-Nazify Gaza and rebuild a functional civic society that doesn't become a terror regime again.

It worked to help De-Nazify Germany, we need to De-Nazify Gaza.

>>Unless you yourself decide that supporting the Palestinians is the same as supporting Hamas.<<

Somehow only the Palestinians get the privilege of that distinction. No one says they are being opposed by "The IDF, not Israel". In Ukraine we talk about "The Russians", not "The Putin Regime". In WW2 we fought the Germans, and no one bothered distinguishing Nazi from German until it ended. (When suddenly, membership in the Nazi party lost its charm)

In fact, in Vietnam the anti-America clique goes the other way with the equation, defining the Communists as "The Vietnamese" when large numbers of Vietnamese were very clearly anti-Communist. The ARVN had more men in the field- and took more casualties- than we did. There is a reason so many fled AFTER the war, traveling to the very nation the Left was blaming for their problems.

We talk about "Chinese" operations in the South China Sea, not the CCP, which is probably a little bit offensive to our Taiwanese friends.

But bring up Hamas's operations in the context of "Palestinian" and the objections arise. They are only the government of Gaza, you see…
Ironically, the media reports figures from "the government" in Gaza, such as their health ministry, as if they were quoting respectable sources, and completely obscures the fact that EVERY government authority in Gaza is literally HAMAS.

Maybe it would be fair to differentiate Hamas's constituent population from the Arabs of the West Bank and those that are Israeli citizens. The West Bank has been relatively quiet, while Israeli Arabs have learned that Palestinians… … the Hamas kind… will kill them too. So much for any solidarity there. So how about describing them as Gazans?

BenFromBrooklyn – good points.

It seems in many of the Anti-Israeli protests. Some are not distinguishing between the horrors that Hamas committed and supporting the average Palestinian. They see the atrocities that were done to the Israels were justified, called for, etc. …

That kind of "brainwashing", indoctrination, etc. can be dangerous. But as we know we have freedom of speech and the right of peaceful assembly. So yes, that means e.g. the Neo-Nazis, KKK, etc. can express their views as despicable those POVs are.