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"Question about Colour Sgt. Bourne's promotion" Topic
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randolph2243 | 01 Oct 2023 6:22 p.m. PST |
Following the battle of Rorke's Drift, I know Colour Sergeant Bourne was offered an officers commission, but turned it down, in lieu of an enlisted promotion and stipend. What was the reason he declined the officers commission? I read a transcript of a radio interview he gave, wherein he mentioned the offered commision, then stated he couldn't accept it, as he was the youngest of 8 children. So was his reason financial, in that he had to buy the commission; or did it require an additional time of service, which would seperate him from his family longer? |
John Armatys | 01 Oct 2023 6:32 p.m. PST |
Purchase of commissions was abolished in 1871, before then worthy NCOs could be offered a commission without purchase. NCO's commonly refused to accept a commission because they were unable to pay the expenses they would incur in an age when an officer required a private income to live in the expected style in the United Kingdom. |
randolph2243 | 01 Oct 2023 7:19 p.m. PST |
Interesting. But is there any source material that indicates this was Bourne's reasoning? |
ColCampbell ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 01 Oct 2023 8:36 p.m. PST |
Not a whole lot of information … link And some more … link Jim |
42flanker | 02 Oct 2023 2:09 a.m. PST |
"I was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal with an annuity of £10.00 GBP – the same awarded to the Victoria Cross – and awarded a Commission, but as I was the youngest of eight sons, and the family exchequer was empty, I had to refuse it that time." From An account by Lieutenant-Colonel Frank Bourne, OBE, DCM (A transcript of a radio broadcast published in the Listener, dated 30th December 1936.) link The reasons given seem clear enough. He does add, however, "that time." From Wikipedia: "He was [subsequently] commissioned in 1890. In 1893 he was appointed adjutant of the School of Musketry at Hythe, Kent, retiring from the army in 1907. During World War I, he rejoined and served as adjutant of the School of Musketry in Dublin. At the end of the war, he was given the honorary rank of lieutenant colonel and appointed OBE. He retired for the 2nd time in 1919, at the age of 64." Officers commissioned from senior NCO ranks were not uncommon. As junior officers they fulfilled important administrative posts, such as the adjutant appointments in which Bourne served, where experience and accumulated skills were valuable. However, they did not carry with them the social obligations and expenses associated with regimental service. |
Frederick ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 02 Oct 2023 5:37 a.m. PST |
Further to the above, as noted there were a number of expenses that regimental officers were expected to pay for that were often in excess of their salaries – as an exceptionally qualified NCO I am sure CS Bourne was well aware of this |
79thPA ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 02 Oct 2023 6:27 a.m. PST |
The mess bill alone probably would have exceeded his income. |
Dennis | 02 Oct 2023 5:49 p.m. PST |
It was relatively common for impecunious officers to transfer to the Indian Army due to the expenses mentioned above. With a large family, that option probably would not have worked for Bourne. |
robert piepenbrink ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 03 Oct 2023 6:22 p.m. PST |
Worth remembering that they played him a lot older in the movie. In real life, he was only 23 at Rorke's Drift, and would only have been about 35 when he was commissioned. But does anyone know what regiment he was commissioned in? What sticks in my mind is that it wasn't a line regiment--some sort of service/support--but I can't find anything to confirm. |
42flanker | 04 Oct 2023 7:27 a.m. PST |
@robert piepenbrink The Army List of 1891 (corrected to 30th Dec 1890) records that with effect from 21 May 1890, Frank Bourne was appointed Quartermaster in the South Wales Borderers with the Honorary rank of Lieutenant. The 1891 Army List doesn't specify but later Army Lists indicate that he had been with 2nd Bn SWB in India and Burma. When the 2nd SWB returned to Britain in 1893, Lieut Bourne was appointed adjutant of the School of Musketry at Hythe. Curiously, the 1894 Army List index directs the reader to the entry for the South Wales Borderers but the regimental roll omits Bourne's name although it contains a footnote for "Lieut. Bourne" summarising his service and decorations 1878-1889. However, in the entry for the 'School of Musketry at Hythe,' Frank Bourne appears as 'Quartermaster and Acting Adjutant,' appointed 1st May 1893, still with the rank of 'Hon. Lieut.' The summary of his service is repeated. In 1896, the Army List continues to direct us to the SWB entry where there is no further mention of Lieutenant Bourne but his entry under 'School of Musketry at Hythe' continues unchanged. In 1897, Lieutenant Bourne is finally listed in the Index as at the School of Musketry, his details remaining the same. The 1901 Army List shows he was promoted Honorary Captain with effect from 21st May 1900 and he continued thus at Hythe until his final entry in the List in 1908. |
robert piepenbrink ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 04 Oct 2023 5:56 p.m. PST |
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