hi EEE ya  | 05 Sep 2023 1:00 a.m. PST |
Hello everyone, As you know, Captain Frederick William Benteen was criticized by some military analysts because he did not obey the instructions of Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer. He received a note, read it, thought about it enough to put it in a pocket, but he did not collect the ammunition packets and rush to the aid of Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer. Instead, as he approached the battlefield after breaking off his reconnaissance, he saw Major Marcus Albert Reno's demoralized men attempting to organize a defensive position on the future Reno Hill and he chose to join them. Did this decision ensure the death of Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer? Yours aye Paskal |
| mildbill | 05 Sep 2023 5:15 a.m. PST |
No. Benteen in my opinion is the only officer that Day that made the least mistakes. |
John Leahy  | 05 Sep 2023 7:31 a.m. PST |
Yes, he was partially responsible as was Reno and Custer. I do not fault Benteen staying at Reno Hill. However, he shouldn't have even met Reno. He dallied to long before he arrived at Reno Hill. The pack company had even caught up with him. Would his arrival have saved all of Custer's battalion? Probably not. Maybe only the few companies that were closer to his approach. Those companies, IMHO were deployed there by Custer to keep Benteen's approach route open.I Something to keep in mind about the Indian destruction of that battalion. The same Indians moved to attack the Cavalry that had moved to Weir point. One Company under Godfrey was ordered to make a fighting withdrawal to give the other companies a chance to return to Reno Hill and get into positions for the attack on them. Godfrey, facing a massive number of attacking Indians fought a masterful delaying action. He lost exactly one casualty. The difference I believe is that the men in Reno Hill were able to fight from a solid defensive position that couldn't be assaulted from all sides. Custer's battalion was never able to do that. Thanks John |
 The Virtual Armchair General | 05 Sep 2023 10:19 a.m. PST |
No, I don't see Benteen's actions having any direct result of what befell Custer's battalion. TVAG |
| Texaswalker | 05 Sep 2023 1:30 p.m. PST |
No, Benteen's actions, although not consistently admirable, went a long way to saving both his and Reno's columns from near annihilation. The destruction of Custer's command is primarily attributable to Custer. |
 McKinstry  | 05 Sep 2023 4:28 p.m. PST |
Timing wise I believe Benteen did dawdle but even moving a bit quicker he still would have encountered Reno's survivors and in all likelihood would have been sucked into that engagement. Custer did not consider any actions by the Natives except slipping away and based his plans around preventing them getting away. He was wrong and he and his force were destroyed. I hesitate to claim Reno's force would also have been destroyed without Benteen's intervention but that was certainly a possibility. |
| hi EEE ya | 05 Sep 2023 11:43 p.m. PST |
What I don't understand is why Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer did not order Captain Frederick William Benteen to attack the Indian camps from the West as Major Marcus Albert Reno was ordered to do from the south and as Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer tried to do from the east. Now since Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer did not imagine the size of the opposing force, he could have ordered this… Because as in the Battle of the Washita River, a single cavalry regiment can do nothing against an Indian camp of such size… When Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer realized his mistake, why didn't he attempt a general withdrawal of its 5 companies to the South or better, to the East and then return to join Major Marcus Albert Reno ? |
| 79thPA | 06 Sep 2023 7:44 a.m. PST |
Maybe Custer didn't have it in him to admit that he had made a mistake? Or that it wasn't an issue that he couldn't fix? |
| Grattan54 | 06 Sep 2023 10:17 a.m. PST |
Custer and other commanders did not realize the size of the resister movement. The great fear was that the Indians would scatter. Terry had given Custer orders to always feel to his right so that no Indians would escape that way. That is why Custer sent Benteen to the right. He wasn't sure where the village was and did not want the village to scatter. When Custer did realize the size of the village he saw Reno holding his own and having most of the warriors of the village fighting him. It is likely that Custer believe he could then strike the middle or top of the village safely and defeat the Sioux and Cheyenne. Turned out he was wrong for several reasons. The first being Reno panicked and fled and another being Benteen did not follow the instructions Custer sent him with some good reasons. |
| John Leahy | 06 Sep 2023 5:48 p.m. PST |
Grattan54 I could not agree more. The Indians always scattered when they could. They only resisted when they had no other choice and that was at a pretty small scale. Every US Officer believed the same. The entire campaign was based on 3 converging columns to prevent that from happening. Never, in the history of the Plain's wars had so many Indians banded together and fought in such great numbers defending a camp. Red Cloud had large numbers but that was an offensive ambush vs the US Army (ambush led by Crazy Horse). The Washita had potentially large numbers (but it was winter and the bands were more spread out). I'm not sure the LBH ever could turn out as anything except for the 7th to get hit pretty hard, except for the battle happening with the other part of the column under Terry being present.
Thanks
John
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| hi EEE ya | 07 Sep 2023 2:42 a.m. PST |
The largest concentrations of Plains Indians were those of the Sioux War which began in 1862, the Dakotas were even reinforced by the Lakotas… But there, the army went all out to calm them down, so no defeats like after the Civil War. |
| 42flanker | 07 Sep 2023 1:53 p.m. PST |
It is questionable whether the Eastern Dakota involved in the Minnesota War of 1862 could be counted as Plains Indians and I would be interested to know on what you base your estimate as to the fighting there witnessing the largest concentrations of Indian combatants on the frontier. As to defeats, there were certainly a few debâcles during the fighting where contingents of American troops were wiped out or suffered costly reverses requiring rescue. |
| hi EEE ya | 07 Sep 2023 11:16 p.m. PST |
I don't know if the Dakota could be considered Plains Indians, what is the criterion, all the Plains Indians were nomads? I base my estimate on the fights which saw the greatest concentrations of Indian fighters there on the border, on my readings and in particular of "Encyclopedia of Indian Wars: Western Battles and Skirmishes, 1850 – 1890" by Gregory F. Michno which gives the numbers when possible, but all the books on this war confirm, check you will see. It is also in this Indian revolt that the army used the most troops in this or that battle. |
| Grattan54 | 08 Sep 2023 10:21 a.m. PST |
Battle of Killdeer Mountain, during the Dakota war of 1862, is the largest Indian battle based on numbers of who fought including both sides. |
| hi EEE ya | 09 Sep 2023 7:23 a.m. PST |
This is what I wrote on 07 Sep 2023,the largest concentrations of Plains Indians were those of the Sioux War which began in 1862,but this war is less interesting because the Dakotas are not the Lakota… There must be differences in appearance, etc… |
| 42flanker | 10 Sep 2023 10:20 a.m. PST |
Although the fight at Killdeer mountain was in July 1864 Killdeer Mountain Battlefield Site
link Killdeer Mountain Battlefield State Historic Site
link |
| hi EEE ya | 10 Sep 2023 11:35 p.m. PST |
Thank you 42flanker, the problem is that the majority of the Indians were Dakotas who do not have the same culture, appearance and military culture etc… as the Indians of the plains like the Lakota, because in fact they were not not nomads. As I complained here TMP link I don't want generic figurines and as I think that the Dakota were very different in appearance from the Lakota… |
