"UN on the human rights situation in Ukraine" Topic

Report of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights on the situation in Ukraine:

"Because of their excessively broad scope, the amended provisions of Ukrainian law appear to have gone beyond what is permitted by the principles and norms of International Human Rights Law, even during a state of emergency or martial law."

"Torture and ill-treatment were used to extract confessions or information, or to induce detainees to cooperate in other ways, to extort money and property, and to punish, humiliate and intimidate."

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From February 2022 to 31 January 2023, OHCHR documented 133 cases of CRSV (85 men, 45 women, 3 girls), the majority of which took place in territory occupied by the Russian Federation. 109 cases are attributable to Russian armed forces or Russian law enforcement and penitentiary staff.

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Cuprum… with all due respect… you have to have a stone face to point another country about human rights from Russia… where even young mothers with babies in their arms are herded violently towards God knows where for protesting in the street. .. with respect… I recommend that you avoid these types of threads…

Amicalement
Armand

Tango +1

Well, Orcs are evil by definition. But is it allowed to behave like this for excellent representatives of Western democracy?

Tango01:

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Is it already a democracy or not? I am addressing you with your own words…
There is no democracy in Russia. How much of it do you have left?

Tango +1

Cuprum, You are defending Russia – agresor fascist imperialist genocidal kidnappping terrorist country led by warcriminal.
We worry less about Your type of governance, we worry more about genocidal actions.

Of course is a Democracy… you can see those kind of Scenes in many other "Western" countries too…

The problem is when you know and see that the government itself, with a person at the helm of it, who perpetuates himself in power, is the one who directs a total and unlimited repression against anyone who even decides to think in a different way… only in perennial and murderous dictatorships exist the perpetuation of the violence against anyone who thinks differently using all the power of the State for it… unfortunately, imho, Russia is not far, in this unfortunate aspect, from North Korea, Cuba, Guatemala, Venezuela or China…

I perfectyl understand how so many thousands of your fellow countrymen keep coming to my country in search of refuge…

Amicalement
Armand

According to the UN report 76 violations by Ukraine, 864 by Russia, for more than 10 times as many

You don't need to tell me what a dictatorship is like here. I definitely see it better ;)
I personally participated many times at protest rallies here and observed everything personally.

There is no dictatorship in Russia, but there is classical authoritarianism. By the way, such systems often develop to quite democratic regimes. For example: South Korea or Portugal. Alas, a society that has never known democracy will simply reject the modern Western model (and I'm not talking about the ugliness that Western society is increasingly turning into now, but about the "classics" of the 50s and 60s). Neoliberalism is just a pendulum that has swung back. Intolerance, the imposition of the only true dogmas, etc. USSR-2, only other dogmas, leftist ideas, emasculated and reduced to absurdity ;-)

Russia is now on the rise. I think so.

And war… Well, sooner or later someone will respond to "soft power" – military power. I do not welcome the war, but it was actually inevitable. The "unipolar world" has deprived diplomats and politicians of the art of compromise. Now the training is being re-started. Apparently us all need to wash yourself with blood in order to learn to keep your word again …

williamb, how many residents were interviewed by the UN commissioners on the Russian side of the front? I suppose that after the war the proportions will change a lot …

Perhaps if you object to human rights violations by Ukraine, you shouldn't invade them?

I do not mind. I state. Human rights in Ukraine have been massively violated since 2014.

Human rights in Ukraine have been massively violated since 2014, by the Ruscum,

Tally Ho!

The war can be ended in a day by giving back the stolen land in Crimea, Luhansk, Donets, Kherson and Zaporizhia. Nobody is claiming one square inch of Russian territory.

I believe the West collectively will be more than happy to demand better governance in the Ukraine once the existential threat to their existence is ended.

Since the Russian Federation is not facing an existential threat but rather presenting one to their smaller neighbor, they can behave properly right now starting with freeing Navalny.

Perhaps if the Russians weren't there illegally they wouldn't get their little feelings hurt.

Perhaps if Russia did not invade Chechnya, Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine these things would not happen so much.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Cuprum2, first you cite the report for human rights abuse by Ukraine. Then when the I posted the numbers of violations documented in the report by Russia and Ukraine and compare them you make it sound as if the report is incomplete or inaccurate!? That it did not do a thorough investigation of all the violations. If you think it is incomplete or inaccurate then you should not be posting it or only picking out one part of it that agrees with what you want to believe. Companies have been sued for misrepresentation of their products when they only present the part of their testing and research that agrees with what they want the regulators and buyers to believe their product does and not reporting the test results that don't agree with what they want.

"… personally participated many times at protest rallies here and observed everything personally…"

Mon Dieu!…if what he says is true… we have a true hero among us… protesting in Russia openly and on the street is either an act of tremendous courage, audacity and risk… or it is suicide… if they see you they pick up you by force and go one to the limbo…

Armand

@Tango01, perhaps he is posting from a Russian prison cell. I'm sure they have free wifi.

Cuprum: "Russia is now on the rise. I think so.
…
I do not welcome the war, but it was actually inevitable"

Indeed, indeed.
Russians are like Riddicks Necromongers, if they rise the war will be inevitable.
Proved by history.
So all what we must to do is to quarantee that Muscowy will not rise ever again.

Cuprum2 – Look at this report. It says Ukraine did some bad things.

Reply – it says Russia did a lot more bad things than Ukraine.

Cuprum2 – Of course, we are evil it is ok, and besides they did not interview people in the occupied territories maybe it will change proportions.

Cuprum, are you proud of the actions of the Russian Federation portrayed in this report?
Do you really feel that this report in any way should make people feel that Ukraine is the bad guy here?

"… personally participated many times at protest rallies here and observed everything personally…"

You can participate and observe a protests as a part of job. That also explains immunity and pro-war opinions.
Because You participate to observe other participators.
;) Just saying.

"I do not welcome the war, but it was actually inevitable"
No, it was not. Even Prigozin said so.
It was choice of Russia.

It was choice of Russia.

No it was entirely Putin's choice – the best you can call Russia's political system is 'managed democracy'. A significant proportion of the populace is politically disengaged and the majority fed on propaganda. Frankly lying to your populace, on that scale, ought to be a crime against humanity!

The irony to all of this is that had Putin wanted to talk geopolitical turkey in 2022 he probably would have walked away the "winner". Now its just a matter of how long he survives and how many more Russian's he kills while the countries economy and society circles the drain….

The "unipolar world" has deprived diplomats and politicians of the art of compromise.

The existence of the EU says otherwise…. What the unipolar world perhaps has failed to do is allow insidious and dangerous ideas like 'spheres of influence' to properly die out and be consigned to the dustbin of history. The war in Ukraine hopefully will consign it. And I'd seriously question the motives of any state that pushes the concept of of multipolar world – proponents of fraternity, liberty and equality they tend not to be…

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Archon64 … Ha! Ha!….

Armand

As long as Russia is on the UN P5 … I don't think anything will happen.

williamb, I'm just saying that in Ukraine, human rights are violated massively and with the connivance of the government – and this is an established fact. And I give a link to the relevant document. Full document – no cuts.

Polling representatives of only one of the parties to the conflict, by definition, cannot be complete. This is an indisputable fact.

Tango01, no heroism. I didn't go to rallies against the war in Ukraine, and we didn't have them in our city. I am left-wing, by conviction, and participated in rallies, for example, against raising the retirement age. But nobody beat us like it was done in "democratic" France in a similar situation.
Although one of our leaders, Platoshkin, was sentenced to a long house arrest.

Sho Boki, don't even hope ;-)

Pendekar, no one can be proud of crimes. I just want to say that Ukraine is not at all a "country of clear-faced elves." But we all remember the famous phrase of Franklin D Roosevelt: "He may be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch."

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa, there is a huge amount of lies, in Russia, in Ukraine, in the West. Such is the war.
But, those who are interested in the opposite point of view will find it without much difficulty.
I don't observe any "circles the drain", on the contrary, after the departure of foreign business, excellent opportunities open up for our own production. Yes, there are difficulties, but these are the difficulties of growth. Thanks to the West for the sanctions – you have finally awakened the dormant potential of Russia.
Turning the world into a "sphere of influence" (read – a colony) of one country (group of countries) – is this the way to prosperity? I do not think so. Either you create a single earthly state with equal rights and opportunities for all – or the world remains a field for competition between different countries.

Congratulations on your participation in a "good" company (in Russia, these subs would have received at least five years in prison for promoting Nazism):

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"and this is an established fact" by Russia.

Tally Ho!

"political system is 'managed democracy'. A significant proportion of the populace is politically disengaged and the majority fed on propaganda. Frankly lying to your populace, on that scale, ought to be a crime against humanity!"

Unfortunately this is coming closer and closer to home (US.)

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Unfortunately this is coming closer and closer to home (US.)

So very true. It at times looks like the Roman Empire of old. Of course, senators are not stabbed to death on the senate floor … [yet?] …

Ned

The Russians have been using CBUs before the US sent the Ukraine CBUs. Russian CBU malfunction rate is very high. I have heard as much a 40%. While US CBU rate is like 1 or 2 %
They are reported to be very effective on FA positions & troop concentrations.

And yes, some Ukraine missiles will hit non-combatants. However, they don't normally target civilians as it appears the Russians do.

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Ukrainians have been conducting indiscriminate artillery shelling of cities and towns in the DPR and LPR since 2014, which has been recorded by the OSCE a huge number of times. And nobody cared. Your excitement now – the usual hypocrisy.
As for this incident, it is most likely a consequence of a malfunction or deflection of a damaged missile when trying to shoot it down. And with the same success, this missile can be Ukrainian – we recall the fall of Ukrainian missiles in Poland and Belarus. And even the downed plane and helicopter of the Romanian Air Force on March 2, 2022 …

"Thanks to the West for the sanctions – you have finally awakened the dormant potential of Russia…."

You really consider that to be partners and friends with North Korea , Iran and those African movie gobernment countries is a good move?

Wait a little about China… and then you see…

Armand

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For a long time we tried to be partners with the West. But the West decided that we should be its vassals. Russia does not agree to this role.
Yes, right now Russia's group of friends is not the most attractive (although the United States was not embarrassed, for example, by Saudi Arabia, which is extremely far from democracy and universal values). But let's see what happens after the defeat of the West in Ukraine ;-)
China? He's no one's friend. But as long as Russia reliably covers it from the West and North from any attack, China will never act against Russia. The West itself made Russia and China allies, leaving them no other choice. Apparently, there are no more far-sighted politicians in the West… Although there are problems with this in Russia too. But not in China.

The ruscum have been conducting indiscriminate artillery shelling of cities and towns in the DPR and LPR since 2014, which has been recorded by the OSCE a huge number of times. And nobody cared. Your excitement now – the usual hypocrisy.

There changed it for you.

"But let's see what happens after the defeat of the West in Ukraine" How's that defeat going? We see more and more how the once vaunted soviet army is not actually that vaunted, although very good at murdering children,

Tally Ho!

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From Military.com :

Funerals in the Ukraine …

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Ned
Yes, we all know about Nazis in the Ukraine. Nothing new … the USA and other nations have a Nazi/Neo-Nazi party(s) too. In the USA we have freedom of speech. No matter how stupid, racist, etc. are a group beliefs. We have a Communist & Socialist party too. I and many don't like what they espouse, etc.

As long as with, e.g. BLM and Antifa, until you riot, burn down city blocks, attack LEO, etc. You have the right of peaceful assembly and protest, sadly even if they are dressed in Nazi, KKK, etc. I loathe these types … but they have the right to say what they believe. No matter how heinous it is.

Frankly the Ukrainian Nazis are fighting the Russian invaders. At this time, they have some use … The Ukrainians need all the help they can get. Just like the Russian invaders.

You find Nazis in every country include Israel.

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Obviously no qualms about funding these groups here then. And yet a lot of squealing about alleged Russian crimes. A sort of
astounding cognitive dissonance may be observed among these boards.

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Anyone who studies history knows the US had in the past committed war crimes at times. However, it is not policy, it is some basically going rogue, per se. BUT it is not US policy.

At the US Army Infantry Officers Adv Course, in '83 we spent a least on day or more deconstructing what happened at My Lai during the Vietnam. We were taught what is a war crime, how to prevent it as a leader, etc. But we knew sometimes it may not be that easy. However, we knew it was about good training and leadership that goes a long way to prevent these incidents.

We also knew we do not have to follow an illegal order. But in some cases, these crimes are committed by a small group of individuals, with limited leadership. BUT again, it is never US policy to commit these crimes. However, sadly a few happen in the US Military. But are few and far between.

Obviously no qualms about funding these groups here then. And yet a lot of squealing about alleged Russian crimes. A sort of
astounding cognitive dissonance may be observed among these boards.

We support Ukraine … however, the Nazis there, get no direct support from the US/NATO. Should we not support Ukraine because they have Nazis in their nation? In the wake of the Russian imperialistic invasion.

There is no way to paint it any other way. The Russians invaded a neighbor for no reason.

However, we all know how to stop war crimes … Don't go to war. However, in this case Ukraine had no choice. As happened similarly after 9/11. NATO Art.5 came into effect. And we, i.e. NATO had to go to A'stan to hunt down islamic terrorists/jihadis. That was at war with the West. So, at times you have no choice.

What I do find astounding is the cognitive dissonance by some who vilify the Ukraine after being invaded for no reason. Even if Putin and his cronies used going there to hunt Nazis.

If one understands history, i.e. WWII, the US, UK, etc. had to make a deal with the devil i.e. Stalin. To defeat the Axis Powers.

BTW the author of that article, which is well written BTW, is known for being polarized to one side. Not balanced, but today who is ?

Whenever I need a cope fix this place never disappoints. Ukraine is a dead man walking.

The problem is not the presence of Nazis in society – they can be in any society. The problem is that it was the Nazis who were the main striking force of the "revolution of dignity" (with the open support of the West), the problem is that the Ukrainian oligarchs and special services use them as their militants (murders, seizure of property, intimidation of dissidents), the problem is , that only in Ukraine were Nazi formations officially integrated into the army and police, the problem is that the Nazis are officially engaged in raising children with the full support of the state.
And all this happened BEFORE the Russian invasion.
Where else in the world does something like this exist?

There are lot of Nazis in Ukraine – muscovites aggressors, the Ortodox Fascists.

Ukrainians are nationalists, what is good thing, but muscovites are Nazi-Fascists – RaZZists. All muscovites society were rised as RaZZist Russomongers long time ago, only there are openly Fascist movements, persons and military units.

Just google the name – Milchakov.

"Ukraine is a dead man walking" Does not look that way unless the fascist invaders use nuclear weapons, or do you say that because you fancy the fascist invaders and want spewtins invasion to succeed, perhaps if he wins a nice little take over of the B3, or even Poland after all it was part of Russia once? (Although one could say Russia was once part of Poland as well)

Cuprum, you are part of a fascist state, bleating about the Ukrainian so called Nazis, Nazis here, Nazis there, wherever your short arsed little dictator tells you to try and justify the murder of women and children, that would never have happened had you attempted to reabsorb Ukraine. The parallels are there with another fascist state, back in 1939,

Tally Ho!

The warmongers contend that Russia is struggling in Ukraine…. and yet at the same time are a threat to take over Europe. Ludicrous.

Muscovites contend that they are struggling in Ukraine?
…. and yet at the same time they threat to take over Europe.
Indeed ludicrous, but these are muscovites, this is how their mind works.

However, here they have point. If muscovites can prevail over Ukrainians and Poles, there will be no more obstacles to take over Europe.

The "non" warmongers supports Russia in its bid to assimilate the Ukraine and probably the B3, maybe even Poland?

Tally Ho!

Nick +1 x 2 …

this place never disappoints.

I'll try harder next time. 😁

The warmongers contend that Russia is struggling in Ukraine

I think warmonger is bit strong in most cases. BTW – How do you become one ? Do you have to take a test or something ? I'm asking for a friend …

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I'd say let's hope the Russian GEN quoted in that article is wrong … wait … they can't even defeat the Ukraine. The Russians are marginal at best.

The Russians vs NATO … that's almost laughable … Unless someone starts tossing around nukes. Then it will be game over in many places on the Earth.