"Treadhead Needed!" Topic

I keep running across Panzer III M's with spaced armor around the turret and schurzen in what are supposed to be North Africa miniature collections, but I've not seen photographs or narratives to match. Production dates don't exclude the possibility.

Does anyone actually know?

It's not life or death. If they're not suitable for North Africa I can certainly find them another theater. But I'd like to get it right. Thanks.

IIRC, schurzen were introduced around mid-1943 as protection against Soviet AT rifles. Since neither the British or Americans used ATRs, I suspect the schurzen were sent to Russia at first, becoming more universal as the war went on.

Another possibility is that they were introduced just a bit too late to make it to Tunisia.

British had plenty of Boys anti-tank rifles, though by mid-war these started to get gradually replaced by the PIAT.

For what it's worth:

Number produced: 250
Produced: October 1942-February 1943

link

Possibly used on Sicily?

From the Tank Encylopedia:
link

Panzer III Ausf.M
Contracts were placed for the Panzer III Ausf.M in February 1942. They had the same features as the Ausf.L but they were fitted with deep-wading equipment. It was armed with the same 5 cm Kampfwagenkanone 39 L/60 (5 cm KwK 39 L/60) tank gun had a length of 3000 mm, as used on the Ausf.L. The longer barrel gave the gun a higher velocity and penetration power over the shorter 5 cm Kw.K L/42 but it had problems penetrating the frontal armour of the T-34 and KV-1 at long range.

Starting in May 1943 Schürzen 5 mm skirt armour plates were mounted on the hull side and 10 mm plates on the turret, to prevent the Soviet 14.5 mm anti-tank rifle penetrating the side armour of the Panzer III. Draftgeflecht metal mesh screens were also trialled. They were both as effective as each other, but the Schürzen skirt armour plates entered production as it would have taken too long to develop the support hangers for the metal mesh screens.

Wolfhag

So all tanks with schurzen in my North African forces need to be reassigned. Fortunately, this is not a major problem with 2mm armor. I'll double-check the 6mm. Thank you all very much.

AFIK the only Pz IIIM which saw service in Africa were the ones shipped out with the Tiger battalion to Tunisia.

I just checked Jentz. 25 Pz IIIM where shipped with the 501 Tiger Bn, all the other Pz III in Africa were 50mm armed, even the ones sent with 10th Panzer.

Martin Rapier ,the Pz III Ausf M were armed with a 50mm L/60 gun , it was the Ausf N which had the 75mm L/24 gun .

I've seen pictures of Pz IIIN in NA (or at least identified as such in the caption), would these be the tanks assigned to the Tiger battalion?

Iif the captions are correct, yes.

The 501st had Panzer IIINs assigned as support tanks. The line platoons consisted of 2 Tiger Is and 2 Panzer IIINs.

The Schurzen did not really come out until a bit before Kursk. I am not sure of the exact date – Maybe April/May 1943?
I doubt if any were in Tunisia. The Panzer IIINs of the 501st in Tunisia at least do not show any with the Schurzen.

May 43 I think.
And I think no schurzen in na, even in Tunisia

"Martin Rapier ,the Pz III Ausf M were armed with a 50mm L/60 gun"

Oops! My bad. I rather lose track of Pz III variants after L. The Germans just list them as PzIII(75).