"Ukraine claims Russian Mi 8 pilot defects" Topic

Planned defection with helo according to the Ukraine:

link

Maybe there is one smart Russian.

The pilot has a much higher chance of survival defecting from the Russian military.

Wow this is a real game changer, the ukrain now has an air force.

Shame they don't take prisoners though, may be some one will end up in the Hague for eliminating people? may be not

Someone's been out drinking with Medvedev…

"Shame they don't take prisoners though" You really are belt fed your "information" from Spewtin,

Tally Ho!

The helicopter's other crew members, who were unaware of the plan, were "eliminated," the agency said.

That is in the article, there were some other dudes but we offed them. whats the problem?

Yes "Unwilling to surrender" so fighting to prevent the helicopter's capture and killed in the fight, hardly Russian style execution of prisoners so what's the problem?

Tally Ho!

Now lets put our little brain sells to work. "Unwilling to surrender" How would 2 men defend a helicopter on the ground without the helicopter getting damaged in an exchange of fire?
There is blood on the paper work was there shooting inside the machine? Did they make a run for it when it landed? Did they try to lift off again? Or did the pilot murder them as he deserted?

Whatever, the ukrain now has an air force and a few bits n bobs of parts. Heroic.

"Now lets put our little brain sells to work". They obviously fought to try and escape, prevent the helicopter from being captured. It is what servicemen do, besides how do you know that the helicopter was not damaged?

You come across as a real keyboard warrior, people are dying to stop your fascist hero from over running their country and contrary to your/ Russian beliefs they are doing quite well.

Tally Ho!

I dont have any hero's I am an adult. Why do you unquestionably accept all the news that is given to you as absolute truth, its very naïve and child like. You call me a keyboard warrior yet you and your ilk celebrate and revel in the deaths in ukrain. Some of you talk about supporting one side or the other like it is a football match, any one who questions the narative is insulted, accused of been in the kremlins pay or a fascist. I do not agree with you or your views and if any one is a keyboard warrior its you and your ilk.

Tally f…..g ho!

Think you'll find there are quite a few real warriors contribute here on threads related to Ukraine. Nick I believe is one but there are many others- people who signed up, wore their uniform with pride and from time to time would know what the real danger of confronting an enemy felt like.
So I wouldn't dismiss such opinions about what might have happened on this occasion quite so lightly.

I have no more information on the actual sequence of events than anyone else. But Nick's interpretation seems to make a lot more sense than yours Ned. Why did you jump immediately to the conclusion that the other crew were killed without being given the opportunity to become prisoners? If they found themselves in Ukraine and didn't resist but didn't want to co-operate, as air crew they would be very valuable to the Ukrainians for prisoner exchange. If they found themselves in that situation and DID resist then the consequences are on them.

On the most basic logical level it would make no sense for the Ukrainans to behave as you accused. On a moral level, Ukrainians might well feel justified in wanting payback against the russian aggressors, but they value the lives and freedom of their own people more than revenge.

Nick +1

Ned -1 😞

StillSenneffe +1

if any one is a keyboard warrior its you and your ilk.

Tally f…..g ho!

Actually Nick served in the UK Army IIRC. So … your comment is incorrect …

You call me a keyboard warrior yet you and your ilk celebrate and revel in the deaths in ukrain. Some of you talk about supporting one side or the other

So it is OK for a dictator like Putin to invade a neighboring nation? For no other reason than a misguided version of Imperialism. How 20th Century !

I and others laud the Ukrainians for fighting hard to push the "fascist" invaders out of their sovereign territory. Not to be under the Russian boot. Like many of the WP after the Russian "empire" fell, they joined NATO. They had had enough of being under Russian Communist rule.

Even 4 of the 7 states of the former Yugoslavia joined NATO. And now Finland & Sweden joined NATO recently.

So yes, we want the Russians to lose and vacate the Ukraine. The only way to do that at this point is combat. Frankly the Russian military is incompetent, poorly trained, motivated, leaded, supplied, etc. Many of the Russian KIAs/WIAs/MIAs/POWs are on the Russian leaderships' bloody hands.

In many cases fighting a war of attrition in the 21st Century. As they are incapable of fighting modern mobile combined arms warfare. And take massive losses of men and material because of their tactical and operational incompetence. Their performance is marginal at best.

Think you'll find there are quite a few real warriors contribute here on threads related to Ukraine. Nick I believe is one but there are many others- people who signed up, wore their uniform with pride and from time to time would know what real danger of confronting an enemy felt like.

Yes so very, very true.

So it is OK for a dictator like Putin to invade a neighboring nation? For no other reason than a misguided version of Imperialism. How 20th Century !
No it would not be ok.
Not to be under the Russian boot. Like many of the WP after the Russian "empire" fell, they joined NATO. They had had enough of being under Russian Communist rule.
NATO told russia it would not move east.
So yes, we want the Russians to lose and vacate the Ukraine. The only way to do that at this point is combat. Frankly the Russian military is incompetent, poorly trained, motivated, leaded, supplied, etc. Many of the Russian KIAs/WIAs/MIAs/POWs are on the Russian leaderships' bloody hands.
Ukrain has one more army left to through against the russian defenses. When that one has destroyed itself. You will see russian mobile warfare.
If people want to spout insults to others because they don't agree with their words it dosent matter what they have been or done in their past it demonstrates what type of person they are now.

Ned, I think we're just pointing out that your interpretation of events not only has no evidence supporting it, but is illogical, and other people have more logical interpretations.

Also, if you still think that the russian army is capable of mobile warfare, well I'm not sure there's much further we can take this. Is the operational manoeuvre group in the room with us now?………

You will see russian mobile warfare.
If people want to spout insults to others because they don't agree with their words it dosent matter what they have been or done in their past it demonstrates what type of person they are now.

Highly unlikely the Russian military will come back to life with the ability to fight modern warfare. If they were capable of that they would have done it when they invaded over 18 months ago or so. They have taken huge loses, that demonstrates their current combat capabilities.

And yes, what the Russian military has done in the past, what they were supposed to be trained to do, etc. many of us studied that. Observe what both sides are doing, etc. We know that lessons learned is very important to training a military for future operations. As many of us did serve in uniform. It was part of our job in many situation. Along with the study of military history as well.

The person I am now ? Does that matter ? FWIW – My decade + ('79-'90)as an Infantry Officer had defined me. I lead an Air Assault Rifle Plt then later a Mech Co. in a Mech Hvy Bde, etc., etc., etc. worldwide. My previous experience and training, study of history, etc., gives me some insights, knowledge, expertise, etc. that others don't. And that goes the same or more for many of the other Vets here.

NATO told russia it would not move east.

NATO didn't move East. As I said, many former WP joined NATO for reasons I already mentioned. Sweden & Finland join because of their concern over Russian Imperialism. Putin by invading the Ukraine is responsible for these two nations joining. It's on him. And there is no reason for either of those not to join. Based on the current geopolitical situation.

The Ukraine was not allowed to join NATO. For a number of reasons. So, Putin took advantage of that. After this war is over, down the road, they may be allowed to join NATO. They like all the others in NATO know how Art. 5 works. So does Putin and his military leaders do.

History tells us one of the best ways to prevent a war is to project capabilities, strength, power, etc. "Peace thru Strength" as the saying goes. Putin's feckless imperialism put him in this situation. NO one else …

E.g. Sweden & Finland joined NATO because of Putin's invasion of the Ukraine and blind imperialism. As I have said before.

Putin and his cronies are responsible for nations joining NATO. To deny that would be denying the truth.

FWIW, I don't remember actually insulting anyone. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if anyone wants to be insulted, I can do that too but don't want to risk being put in the DH. 🐶🏠

BTW to quote someone. Put that quote between < q > < /q > … but with no space between the letters, etc. e.g. q … /q …

That is straight out of the white house press office isn't it?

The fact is there are an increasing number of nations around the world that realise that the us hegemony is no longer acceptable and is on the wain. There are many places outside the us and eu that view the war in ukrain very differently. In fact there are many people, normal people in the eu who are not happy about the way their governments are acting in regards to this conflict. No doubt they must all be fascist and paid by the kremlin according to the people on here.

Legion 4 i didn't say it was you who cast insults, and indeed you haven't.

Ned Ludd, aww didums poor little thing. No one has revelled in any deaths on here, not the done thing amongst us. We have not, however, shed any tears for the orcs.

You keep blabbing on about western MSM but believe all coming from Putin and his lapdogs, which shows your lack of understanding about the western media. If any western reporter had any inkling of any Ukrainian wrongdoing, it would be big paying news. Meanwhile you lap up single source information and claim it to be true.

Tally Ho!

Nice to see you back nick all your fwends have come out to help you. Thing is i carnt read or understand russian so how i am consuming russian media is a marvel. Of course western media would report it nick because they are noble and honest and dont tell any naughty lies or cover things up they are wonderful. Same as i said

The fact is there are an increasing number of nations around the world that realise that the us hegemony is no longer acceptable and is on the wain. There are many places outside the us and eu that view the war in ukrain very differently. In fact there are many people, normal people in the eu who are not happy about the way their governments are acting in regards to this conflict. No doubt they must all be fascist and paid by the kremlin according to the people on here.

There might be people outside the US and EU who view russia's aggression against Ukraine differently. It's a familiar point of history that the closer you live to russia- the less you like and trust it. Strange but true……

But this thread is about the defection of a russian helicopter pilot to the Ukraine- and what looks like a pretty clever operation by Ukrainian Intelligence under the noses of the fsb and gru. Any more to discuss on that?

Yes ok.

6 months to plan the theft of a helicopter and the desertion of the piolet the "elimination" of two of his crew. Obviously a major event that will probably shape the future of this conflict and lead to a full ukranian victory. All I have to say on it.

Yes I'm sure the whole debacle has been shrugged off by the kremlin as 'just one of those things that happens to our air force'.

What the latter really needs is someone to get a proper grip of everything- maybe like that surovikin guy; oh wait, er no…

"the "elimination" of two of his crew" You dont get it, they tried to stop the Ukrainians, they got killed, this is war, a war a little fascist started with his "3 day special Operation" which has seen your wonderful Russians murder many civilians and Ukrainian prisoners in cold blood.

Probably not a major event, but another poke in the eye of Spewtin and a far more successful operation than his little war, a "fact" that you probably find very disappointing,

Tally Ho!

Aside from the Russian helicopter landing in Ukrainian control territory I am not sure one can believe any of it. for example the rest of the crew might have defected as well and the Ukrainians said they were dead to protect families back in Russia. It also possible the pilot executed them for the half million bucks.

That is straight out of the white house press office isn't it?

Don't get me started … I will certainly get DH'd !

The fact is there are an increasing number of nations around the world that realise that the us hegemony is no longer acceptable and is on the wain.

US hegemony … you must be kidding. On the wane … it certainly appears that way to some. But I'm betting on a comeback in a couple of years. As far as the US no longer being acceptable by some nations. They will still take US money. Money IMO in many cases is wasted. Yes, that is a failure of leadership, etc., etc. … IMO.

Legion 4 i didn't say it was you who cast insults, and indeed you haven't.

Didn't think so … but I'm old and forget a lot these days.

No doubt they must all be fascist and paid by the kremlin according to the people on here.

Wait … did they get my payment?

the rest of the crew might have defected as well and the Ukrainians said they were dead to protect families back in Russia.

Possible … but in a combat zone sometimes bad things happen, even if by accident. That is a very dangerous time when soldiers, etc. attempt to surrender. Based on my training, study of history etc.

Noise, excitement, anger, fear, hate, testosterone, etc. Things happening very fast. Someone shoots then everybody shoots.

Obviously, none of us were there. But it is no surprise if some of the enemy gets killed. Even if accidently …

E.g.:

My Father in WWII was a US Army Infantry SGT in France mentioned an incident. When some Germans were trying to surrender. It took a little time for him to get the GIs to stop firing. Even if that time was just a few seconds.

My unit just rotated off the DMZ in the ROK in '85. And the North Koreans crossed the line after a Russian defector. Shots were fired, people died, some were WIA. About 30 North Koreans were cut off and surrounded on the ROK's side of the DMZ by US troops. It all happened very quickly based on the AAR, etc. I knew that unit's Co. Cdr. he was pretty darn good, but when shooting starts … happens … Regardless the 2ID CG told the US Cdr to let the North take their dead and cross back over to the North.

i am thinking they were attempting to destroy the helicopter to prevent its capture by ukraine?

Maybe … ? But none of us were there so we are going to have to rely on reports from those who were.