"Cluster Munitions: Game-changer?" Topic

The US apparently supplied cluster munitions to Ukraine because other ammo stocks were running low.

However, Russian milbloggers are claiming Russian commanders are impressed with the quality of the U.S. cluster munitions (compared to Soviet/Russian munitions), and Ukrainian bloggers have posted multiple successful attacks using cluster munitions (particularly against convoys and infantry moving the open).

Could cluster munitions be the game-changer that cracks the Russian defensive lines?

Nothing the West does with be a major game changer unless we provide vast quantities in a short period of time.

Starting in the Korean War the US has become very good at keeping a war going indefinitely but not winning a war.

We are always too afraid of "escalation."

Perhaps our enemies should be afraid of AMERICA doing the escalation?

The Soviet Union sent fighter jets and pilots to shoot down Americans in the Korean War and the US kept it a secret rather than risk escalation.

The Soviet Union ran the air defense network and provided all the gear (or the proxies) for North Vietnam but we did nothing because it would be an escalation.

I am glad that the US did not worry about Japanese escalation of the war if we bombed Tokyo in 1942.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Could cluster munitions be the game-changer that cracks the Russian defensive lines?

From what I have understood, one of the main issues that makes those defensive lines challenging to crack is the effective combination of dense minefields with artillery cover.

Against minefields, cluster munitions are probably not of much value. Never mind that any unexploded duds would just add to the hazards.

In counter-artillery role, they might be efficient.

Since the Russians have been using them why shouldn't the Ukrainians?

Speaking of Russians, everybody's favorite Russian made it to Duffleblog.

link

At this point with the US foot dragging sending everything the Ukraine needs, the CBUs will help a bit. Until the Ukraine gets more armor, more CE clearing equipment, F16s, etc. the war will drag on.

The Ukraine Military has out soldiered the Russians in almost all situations. They are superior to the Russian mob that they call a military.

The US is learning some lessons from the Ukraine's experience, etc. The Ukraine's maneuver Brigades are more like a TF or BG. A real combined arms team. With an important difference – their Bdes have 4 FA Bns, not one.

Even light units have tank support. And organic transport.

Their Bdes have their own CE Bn, Recon Co., Sniper Co. ADA Bn, etc.

They are much better organized and equipped to engage in modern maneuver combined arms warfare vs. a modern military with tanks, IFVs, FA, etc.

Not the 2d rate Iraqi Armor & Infantry, etc., units. Or the islamic "jihadis"/terrorists/radicals that the West engaged in both Iraq & more so in A'stan. Asymmetric warfare, guerilla insurgent warfare where CD is a more of a concern. And the jihadis, etc. knew that.

The US should not note: 4 FA Bns[including 1 AT], 1 CE Bn, ADA Bn, Recon Co., etc. per Bde.

Light Bns & Bdes should all have Tanks and transport along with the heavier CE, FA, ADA, Recon units, etc. support like the heavier Bdes.

Like after Vietnam the US Military had to rebuild itself to fit the current threat, etc. So, after 20 years in A'stan and based on what we see in Ukraine. The US Army needs to get up to the task of becoming an effective modern mobile combined arms force. That becomes a little heavier with FA, Tanks, CEs, ADA, etc. if we want to be prepped for the "next war" …

That is going to cost money in some case and with our leaderships' current priorities the $ and the will may not be there at this time.

Leadership has asked Congress for an additional $20 USD billion but there is substantial resistance in the House whereas the Senate will approve.

Thanks Legion, lessons to learn.

The funding issue has become politicized. Maybe the next election will sort it out, but our military is more critical than ever, the world is changing again and the strategic challenges call for new planning and resources.

there is substantial resistance in the House whereas the Senate will approve.

That was no surprise … but what is being, sent or bought with that $ ? M1s with mine plows, MICLICs, strike aircraft, etc.

the world is changing again and the strategic challenges call for new planning and resources.

But the Russians, CCP, Iran, North Korea and islamic terrorists are and will still be our enemies. Regardless of who is running the US.

I have to agree with Bunkmeister, worries about 'escalation' are ridiculous in this situation. We've heard the same cry on HIMARS, attacking the enemy in Russia itself, attacking Russian ships, etc. They sowed the wind, they can reap the whirlwind.

The cry of 'escalation' has the State Department written all over it.

The cry of 'escalation' has the State Department written all over it.

Agreed … "escalation" at this point and even earlier should be no concern. As we have seen since the Russians were massing along the Ukraine border. The US really didn't send what should have been sent until they invaded. And even then as now the US is dragging its feet. E.g. How many MICLICs and M1s with mine plows does the Ukraine have ?

31 M1s should have been 2-3 x that. The USMC just turned in 200 M1s. Seems the US has enough M1s to send more.

When the Ukraine asked for F-16s the US leadership denied that. Now they will get them from other NATO nations. But it may be too late.

The A'stan Debacle only embolden Putin. Clearly demonstrated the US leadership does not have the right stuff. To the whole world.

FWIW – 50% of the Russian military is gone … Just think where the Ukraine would be if we sent them all they needed much earlier to push the Russian Imperial Fascists out their nation.