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"Well, he wasn't ALL bad..." Topic

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1,320 hits since 17 Aug 2023
©1994-2023 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 Aug 2023 8:48 a.m. PST

…While he admitted that "the church suffered" during Stalin's rule, Father Anatolyi also credited the Soviet-era persecution of Orthodox priests and believers for bringing the church "many new martyrs," according to the independent news outlet SOTA…

Moscow Times: link

Personal logo The Virtual Armchair General Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Aug 2023 10:06 a.m. PST

"Well, the bad news is that he executed large numbers of priests, but the good news is that we have more martyrs!"

This sort of circular logic seems to encapsulate Russian thinking on so many levels.


Personal logo Mserafin Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2023 10:31 a.m. PST

…and Hitler liked dogs, so not ALL bad…

Tgunner18 Aug 2023 10:41 a.m. PST

@The Virtual Armchair General

Look on the bright side of life?

olicana18 Aug 2023 10:45 a.m. PST

"The death of one person is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." Stalin to US diplomat, Averell Harriman.

Stalin came into work one day to find one of his secretaries in tears. She told him that the secret police had taken her husband away and that he had been executed. "There, there my dear" said Stalin "don't be upset, we'll soon find you a new husband."

doc mcb18 Aug 2023 10:54 a.m. PST

The first Pope John Paul, who lived as pope only a short time, received the Russian Orthodox archbishop who was widely believed to be a puppet for the KGB. As the Russian leaned over to kiss the pope's ring, he fell dead. William F. Buckley's comment was that we trust the pope will use his power with restraint.

In September 1978, the Metropolitan of Leningrad and Novgorod, Nikodim, attended the installation of Pope John Paul I (who would himself die suddenly after about a month in office), and died during a private audience with the Pope. The Pope administered last rites.
This is from a Forbes article.

doc mcb18 Aug 2023 10:59 a.m. PST

This is of course an old power for the pope: Acts 5:1-11.

Andy ONeill18 Aug 2023 11:03 a.m. PST

Recent estimates are that Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler managed. Does that make Hitler better than Stalin?
Both cut from the same cloth imo.

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2023 11:46 a.m. PST

If you kill more of your own people that just makes you a better communist. Po Pot was the best at the job. That said, I'm sure someone will come along and say they just didn't do communism right. My guess is that for it to be "done right" would require you to kill all your citizens and then shoot yourself.

clibinarium18 Aug 2023 11:55 a.m. PST

The death of one person is a tragedy; unless of course, that person happens to be Stalin.

The secretary's story is perhaps worse than that- it was Alexander Poskrebyshev, who served Stalin faithfully. His wife Bronislava and her brother had met Trotsky at a conference in Paris. A few years later the brother was arrested, and accused of Trotskyism, she was spared as she was pregnant. Time passed and he was inevitably sentenced to death, so Bronislava went to plead for his life. Of course, she was then arrested for Trotskyism and sentenced to death too.
When Poskrebyshev went to Stalin (and remember they spent hours working together every day) to plead for her life, Stalin put his arm around Alexander and said "come now, we'll find you a new wife".

Legionarius18 Aug 2023 12:48 p.m. PST

There is a very special place in hell where Hitler and his cellmate Stalin are sharing eternity together!

Personal logo Mserafin Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2023 2:28 p.m. PST

I would think that in hell they would be honored guests.

olicana18 Aug 2023 3:52 p.m. PST

Unfortunately there is no God. No God, no Heaven, no Hell. You only pay in this life.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2023 4:29 p.m. PST

…and Hitler liked dogs, so not ALL bad…

And he was a vegetarian, Mserafin. Big points for being a vegetarian these days, though not as many as for being a vegan.

Of course both Hitler and Stalin would have agreed with you Olicana, but I don't think much of their judgement.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP19 Aug 2023 2:35 a.m. PST

Didn't think much of him at all, Fonzie. I tend to be pro-British Invasion, but uninterested in Beatles. But are we not wandering even further from miniature warfare?

jedburgh19 Aug 2023 5:04 a.m. PST

Surprised that it is a new statue.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian19 Aug 2023 5:20 a.m. PST

I tend to be pro-British Invasion, but uninterested in Beatles. But are we not wandering even further from miniature warfare?

Some of the Beatles films would be quite easy to game… but does anyone make Fab Four figures?

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP19 Aug 2023 5:55 a.m. PST

:))) Bill.

Sure they do – some even carved out of Norwegian Wood.


mildbill19 Aug 2023 7:14 a.m. PST

flyxwire for the win!

mildbill19 Aug 2023 7:17 a.m. PST

flyxwire for the win! Olicana : voltaire said that if there were no god that man would have to invent one. Otherwise, Hitler and Stalin were correct in their behavior.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP19 Aug 2023 9:16 a.m. PST

Don't except any kind words about murderin' Joe from someone with Ukrainian grandparents

And as to God, I am sort of with Rene Descartes and Blaise Pascal on this

Bill N19 Aug 2023 12:24 p.m. PST

If you kill more of your own people that just makes you a better communist

Was Robespierre a communist? Franco? Seems to me that a willingness to execute large numbers of ones own countrymen on the grounds that their political views differed from the leaders isn't limited to one particular political philosophy, or even one side of the political spectrum.

olicana19 Aug 2023 4:00 p.m. PST

Olicana : voltaire said that if there were no god that man would have to invent one.

It has long been the opinion of atheists that the human brain has a longing to believe in a god: It helps explain the imponderables rather than just accepting them.

So yes, I agree with the great man.

Legionarius19 Aug 2023 4:42 p.m. PST

mildbild +1 "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP19 Aug 2023 6:59 p.m. PST

Bill N,

But Communist are just so good at killing people. While Hitler killed 11 million in his camps, communists killed over 100 million worldwide.

Your two examples are hard pressed to even make in in the minor leagues of mass murders.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP20 Aug 2023 7:32 a.m. PST

My dad was in parochial school during and after WWII. He said one of the nuns said that Hitler wasn't all bad because he killed Jews, and the Jews killed Christ. My dad said that even as a kid he knew that there was something wrong with that statement.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP20 Aug 2023 4:03 p.m. PST

I am not sure we can improve on the judgement of the anonymous Georgian who said that Stalin was a great man: yes, he killed many Georgians, but just think how many Russians he killed!

Legionarius21 Aug 2023 6:59 p.m. PST

To hell with all cruel and murderous despots!

mkenny22 Aug 2023 7:29 p.m. PST

Its easy to demand a 'rules based society' when you, and you alone, make and impose the rules.
If you live in a bubble never get see yourself as others see you.
KISS version-let he who is without sin……………….

Personal logo Mserafin Supporting Member of TMP23 Aug 2023 8:36 a.m. PST

But Communist are just so good at killing people. While Hitler killed 11 million in his camps, communists killed over 100 million worldwide.

Yes, but communism (in all its various forms) had a lot more time in which to make people's lives miserable than National Socialism, being in existence for most of the 20th century, while the Nazis were only around for about a decade. Communism also spread more widely than the Nazis, so it had more potential victims (and murderers).

I'm short, Communism killed more people than National Socialism simply because it had more opportunity to do so. I suspect that if one were to calculate some sort of victims-per-year metric the Nazis would probably out a bit ahead, but what would it matter? Evil is evil.

mkenny23 Aug 2023 2:05 p.m. PST

I have read that in % terms the deaths (from all causes not just battle) in the 30 years war were far more severe than in WW2. Given that the war was to a large extent a Protestant v Catholic conflict are we to label those 2 institutions as 'evil'?

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