"Opinion on rules - Shako 2" Topic

I know these are an old set of rules, but I have just played a game using shako 2 and quite enjoyed it. Now I'm not really a Napoleonic player so I find it hard to evaluate rules for the period. I found them easy to play and straight forward to understand and remember. What I found harder to decide on was how good a feel do they give for the period? So I am turning to the Napoleonic specialists on TMP for your opinions. Does Shako 2 give a reasonably accurate feel for Napoleonic battles?

I think reasonably so for the size action they're meant for (a corps per player). With enough people you could do larger battles.
I think cavalry combats happen in the wrong place because the charged unit doesn't meet halfway. But that's comparatively minor as defending cavalry might well recall to their start line after a win. I think cavalry is too resilient (heavies can take more damage than infantry) counter battery fire is completely useless (a problem I see with most Napoleonic games).
For a nice simple afternoon game I'd give Shako 2 four out of five stars.
My two cents,
Phil

Thanks Phil. Is there a current set you feel is any better for a simple afternoons gaming?

I don't think there is. I quite like Shako (maybe that didn't come through clearly enough) the issues I mentioned really are minor for me.

how common a tactic was counter battery fire in the period actually? i am sure i read somewhere that it was not commonly the case ,

In the secondary sources about tactics we read about how ineffective it was, we see repeated orders not to engage in the wasteful practice. Why do you get REPEATED orders not to do something? Because they keep doing it. Reading even secondary accounts we see artillery engaging the enemy's artillery.
Try to drive off the defender's artillery so it can't shred your infantry at close range. Defending artillery reply to the guns firing on it (clearest threat to the guns themselves).
This is the way I read things.
Phil

Artillery may have wanted to engage in counter battery fire, but it was pretty much never effective. Shako is a very good set of rules; plays fast and gives a good game. personally I prefer the v1 rules (which also had a rather nice big battle set with each unit a division).

oh so shako 2 doesnt have that big battle component anymore?

In the Hungarian War of Independence (1848-1849), battles routinely opened with an hour or two of 'artillery duel'. Both sides were using basically Napoleonic-era weapons and presumably using the same Austrian drill books that presumably represented the pinnacle of Napoleonic-era tactics (or the Austrian view of them, anyway). Presumably the Austrians thought counter-battery fire not only effective but an essential prelude to an attack.

I haven't read the manuals in question, hence a lot of 'presumablies'. But it is certainly a striking feature of the actual battles.

Wellington seemed adverse to the practice at Waterloo from all accounts

And I recall a British battery trying their luck, but when 12lbrs reaponded they stopped. Interesting

Artillery may have wanted to engage in counter battery fire, but it was pretty much never effective.

Dexter: That isn't how the contemporaries describe it, other than seeing infantry as the preferred target--the one that takes and holds ground, hence the orders to stop carrying out counter-battery fire.

Read Mercer's experience with counter-battery fire at Waterloo. Or Marmont's tactics in 1796. There are many more examples of what seem like very effective fire.

Why couldn't artillery fire be effective against artillery?

The last time I played Shako, was at a convention. I commanded an Austrian corps against the French. I repeatedly found my larger columns being attacked by two smaller French columns, both able to fit in my column formation's front. So, every time, I was rolling for my one column against the French rolling twice, once for each column. Guess who won every time? The same was true of volley fire in line. Now, I haven't seen the rules recently, or know the differences between the first and second editions, but that strikes me as really odd…

McLaddie,
The two on one problem, more usually seen with columns against a line I very common in Napoleonic rules. This stems from the columns not having to leave enough room to form line. Shako exacerbates this by requiring units whether in line or column to be within a certain distance to lend support (which is too close for everyone to form line). One solution to this issue, seen in Black Powder, is that the attacker chooses which unit is fighting and the other only lends support. (And, this decision can be made after the effects of closing fire are known)