"1815 Hanoverian Weapons" Topic

I found some very useful information on TMP concerning Hanoverian uniforms and which units were lights and which were Landwehr, but I could not find anything on whether they were armed with muskets or rifles.

Were the lights armed with all rifles or all muskets? Was one company of the lights armed with rifles and the rest with muskets?

This will take a day to answer if I'm lucky, but where would the rifles have come from? Baker rifles were in very limited production and expensive. German hunting rifles were individually made, expensive and personal property. And the Hanoverian Army was uniformed and equipped with leftovers. The light infantry are called just that--NOT "jaeger" or "schutzen" as rifle-armed units are normally described in German, with a single exception. My best guess is Kielmansegge's Field Jaeger Corps was armed with German hunting rifles and everyone else with smoothbores.

I could see maybe sergeants from the KGL light battalions seconded to Hanoverian landwehr units taking along their Baker rifles, but this would only matter in a skirmish/RPG game. You'd be talking a max of 24 individuals in an army of 20,000.

Watch this space Monday evening or Tuesday.

That is along the lines I was thinking. So I guess if a unit is designated as Jaeger, it has rifles of some sort or another. The rest of the light infantry may look the part but are armed with smoothbores similar to British light infantry.

So my understanding. The wailing and gnashing of teeth last night was at the prospect of proving a unit was NOT armed with an unusual weapon. It's a lot trickier than uniforms and organization.

This is a subject that has been addressed a number of times on various websites. Unfortunately, the Hannoverian archives provide no conclusive evidence. Below is an extract of a letter by Michael-Andreas Tanzer that was published on the Napoleonic Wars website (the HStA is the Niedersächsisches Hauptstaatsarchiv in Hannover). All credit is to him:

The 1813 [Hanoverian] drill instructions were not used by KGL light infantry but written by KGL officers for the use of the newly formed Hannoverian Levies, the later field battalions, because of the lack of any standardised drill instructions in 1813. The title is misleading! In the HStA are many propositions for altering the pre 1803 Hannoverian drill to fit into the British drill system. Unfortunately the end product, of which some handwritten adjutant's versions may be found in the HStA, was never printed. The 1802 Hannoverian drill had a large part on the exercises of the sharpshooters which was incorporated in the KGL drill. The new Hannoverian formations of 1813, however, had no use for this. The weapons for them were sent from England and in HStA Hann. 38 D, Nr. 182, Pag. 8 is an "Account of Small Arms and Accoutrements received and issued by Dpy. Asst. Commissy. Taylor in and for the Service of Hanover" dated 8 October 1814 and countersigned by Lt.-Gen. Baron Decken. All weapons received from 6 September 1813 until 23 July 1814 were "Muskets with Bayonets". These were distributed to the Hannoverian battalions including the Lüneburg FB! Memoirs of officers from the so called light battalions never mention rifles but always bayonets, not "Hirschfänger".
All battalions of the Hannoverian Army were re-equipped (partly changing their uniforms) before the Waterloo campaign. It is possible that their sharpshooters received rifles at that point. According to the memoirs of Lieutenant and Adjutant Carl von Berckefeldt, Landwehrbataillon Münden, his battalion used the pre 1803 Hannoverian regulations and so had sharpshooters, but all men were equipped with the British musket. The "sharpshooters" of the Hannoverian units at Waterloo seem to have been the equivalent of the British light companies. The only exception was the Jäger Corps, which of course was armed with (hunting) rifles.

Great information Delort, thank you!

Would these sharpshooters that formed the light company, would they wear the same uniform as the rest of the battalion?

Thank you Delort!!

OC, No light companies. None. Except the KGL. Hanoverian regiments are working from the 1803 manual, so one man in 12(?) is schutzen. Think a scattering of skirmishers, not a maneuver unit. If you've got a copy of Pericoli's The Armies at Waterloo, take a look at Plates 106 and 126. Completely ignore whoever wrote that Plate 126 shows a soldier from alight company, but focus on the green rope hanging from the chest, and that same green rope hanging from the chest of a KGL private from a KGL light company on Plate 106. It's the rope hanging from the chest, whose name in German I cannot remember this evening, which designates schutzen. Might or might not be accompanied by a green plume.

Just placed an order for that book. Should get it in a couple of days. Thanks for the info Robert and for the heads up about the Percoli book.

a very complex subject, Clinton when inspecting the Lauenburg Battalion at 15th of September 1814:

(…) His marksmen which are by the way an excellent establishment and are what no battalion ought to be without, must fall in and exercise with their companies; the flank files of each sub division ought to be composed of these men. (…) p. 50 of
The Correspondence of Sir Henry Clinton in the Waterloo Campaign Volume 1 : Preparations for Waterloo (August 1814 – April 1815 Edited by Gareth Glover, Ken Trotman Publishing 2015

From Rawkins:

"Muskets were initially of the older 1779 Short Land Pattern, but by 1815 most Hanoverian units had received the newer 1795 India Pattern Musket."

"Nr.1 Feldbataillon Bremen 1814-1815
The equipment issued to the battalion in 1813 appear to have been a mixture of British and French items. Muskets were initially of the older 1779 Short Land Pattern, but by 1815 most Hanoverian units had received the newer 1795 India Pattern Musket and the British 1775/1804 pattern cartridge box which held thirty-six rounds in a two way, reversible wooden block. The pouch had a plain black leather lid with rounded corners. The Scharfschützen detachments were armed with the British Baker rifle and sword bayonet. All belting was black leather and initially appears to have been of French patterns, probably from the stores of the former Westphalian army and these black belts are noted as still being worn in 1815, although by regulation should have been placed with British whitened leather belting."

"The Lüneburg Leichtes-Bataillon had received muskets at the end of April 1813 although these were mostly older patterns of Saxon and Prussian arms which had been liberated from the arsenal at Bremen and by the end of May most of the infantry units had begun to be re-armed with British subvention muskets and equipment and sent from England. The centre companies were armed with the 1795 ‘India Pattern' Musket and bayonet, which was issued with a black leather sling with brass buckles. Those soldiers issued with muskets were equipped with a black leather shoulder belt to carry the bayonet in a black leather sheath with brass fittings. The battalion appears to have been issued for the most part with the 1804 Pattern, 60 round cartridge box on a black leather shoulder belt with brass buckle and fittings although some companies may have also received the 36 round pouch commonly issued to the line infantry. The Scharfschützen sections were intended to be equipped with the new British 1800 pattern Baker rifle and sword bayonet, but from the outset production of the weapons could not meet the demand and they received a mixture of weapons from the British arsenals predominantly Prussian Jäger rifles and some fine quality Hessian rifles in store since the end of the American Revolution. German manufactured rifles were still in use in 1815."

Leichtes-Bataillon Grubenhagen
"…….. the battalion received their British muskets in mid-1814. The sharpshooter detachment probably originated from the Harzer Schützen and may have continued to wear their frock coats until late 1814. Rifles appear to have been of diverse patterns and where sword bayonets could not be fitted the Scharfschützen were armed with a hanger. Other equipment appear to have been Prussian in origin and packs are noted as being of brown hide possibly captured French equipment."

"The Feldjägerkorps were intended from outset to be organised as a unit of sharpshooters in emulation of the Prussian and Austrian jägers or the British 95th Rifle regiment. The equipment that they received in 1813 was mostly of Austrian or Prussian manufacture. In theory all jägers were to be armed with rifles and these were of diverse patterns ranging from Prussian and Austrian military issue rifles with sword bayonets to civilian hunting rifles, often the property of the individual volunteer, who would be issued a ‘hirschfänger', or huntsman's short sword in place of the bayonet. The two re-raised companies of Feldjägerkorps of 1815 are believed to have been armed with the British Baker rifle and bayonet and British rifleman's belting and equipment. For the most part the jägers were issued with a single black leather shoulderbelt worn over the right shoulder to support the sword bayonet or ‘hirschfänger' in a black leather scabbard with brass fittings. The breast of the belt was decorated with a brass filigree, crowned GR badge. Richard Knötel depicts both brass and white metal badges in use in 1813-1814. Each man wore a black leather waistbelt with a squared cartridge box usually worn above the right hip but pulled round to be worn at the front in action. The powder horns were of various horn, wood or copper patterns, often the personal property of the user and were worn over the left shoulder on a green cord. The Feldjägerkorps do not appear to have ever been issued with British pattern ‘Trotter' packs but from outset appear to have been provided with Austrian hide packs which were carried on a brown leather strap over the right shoulder to hang on the left hip. British style water canteens do not appear to have been issued until 1815."

"The Hanoverian Landwehr-Bataillonen were particularly well armed and equipped receiving mostly the new British weapons,
leatherwork and equipment. The muskets issued were predominantly of the ‘1795 India Pattern Musket'. The cartridge boxes were predominantly of two styles, both standard issue to the of the British army infantry regiment. The most common was the 1775/1804 pattern box which held thirty-six rounds in a two way, reversible wooden block and was the standard issue for all centre companies of infantry. The pouch had a plain black leather lid with rounded corners. The second pattern pouch was the massive sixty round pattern of 1804 which was fitted with two tin trays, the upper holding forty cartridges and the low a further twenty. The pouch was heavy, bulky and unpopular with the soldiers. Both patterns of pouch were carried in a whitened leather shoulderbelt approximately 3½ inches wide which was in two parts with separate straps for the cartridge pouch. The belt was blind and needed to be punched by the wearer to take the large brass buckle. A second belt was worn over the right shoulder to support the bayonet in a black or brown leather sheath."

Prince: I would be interested to know where Rawkins got his information from.

Hi Delort,
Rawkins gives:

"NOTES ON RESEARCH AND SOURCES
The primary source of contemporary illustrations for the Hanoverian Army before 1803 is a volume by Johann Gottlieb Ferdinand Ronnenberg ‘Abbildung der Churhannoverschen Armée-Uniformen' published in Hanover in 1791 with magnificent coloured plates, equally Niemeyer & Ortenburg's Das "Gmunder Prachtwerk" published in 1981. The definitive work on the King's German Legion is still without question North Ludlow Beamish's ‘History of the King's German Légion' in two volumes, published in 1832-1837. It would be impossible to list individually all of the modern and valuable research sources consulted except to express my gratitude to the many correspondents who have shared their specialist knowledge of the subject with me over the years and in particular the late Dr. Bryan Keep who collaborated in the writing of the original KGL booklets in 1976 and 1984.

Especially I must thank Dr Peter Gebhardt of Karlsruhe who provided me with access to his notes on the Hanoverian Army before dissolution and during the War of Independence 1813-1814, back in the 1980s as well as putting me in touch with other enthusiasts in Germany and correcting many of the errors in earlier editions of this work and pointing out the less obvious discrepancies in some well-known sources. Also to the late Major Frank Braithwaite, DSO who facilitated access to several British regimental museums and archives. My gratitude must also be expressed to Peter Harrington, Curator of the Brown University Library for permission to use images in my collection which originate from their archives. Finally as always I am indebted to Terry Wise a valued colleague and fellow book dealer who gave me so much help with the flag sections of many books and is greatly missed by all who knew him.

One of the more obvious advantages of being a professional book dealer in combination with researching and writing about military uniforms is that many of the rare and more obscure books, documents and illustrations tend to gravitate towards you as part of everyday business dealings. Such was the case with the Beamish volumes which I managed to acquire in 1982 which prompted the 1st edition of this small book. By sheer good fortune the following year I purchased an auction lot of mixed books in Dublin which included two re-bound leather volumes dubiously entitled ‘King George's Soldiers'. The volumes in fact turned out to be a very fine copy of Ronnenberg and a bound edition of ‘Die Uniformbilder in der Armee-Ehrenhalle des Vaterländischen Museums in Celle' with all the original colour prints by Carl Ernst intact, to which had been added some original Uniformkunde plates by Richard Knötel and some prints by Friedrich Schirmer. It gives me great pleasure to be able share some of these scarce illustrations as pictorial enhancements to this new e-book edition.

This small work is in no way intended to be definitive and errors and omissions are inevitable.

MAIN SOURCES (Including translations and extracts)
Aerts W (Celle 1912) Gohrde,Quatre-bras,Waterloo,Troupes Hanovriennes 1813-15 Beamish N L (London 1832) History of the King's German Légion 2 Vols
Chandler, David (London 1966) The Campaigns of Napoléon
Chappell, M (London 2000) The King's German Legion 1803-1815 (2 vols)
Ford, Guy S (Harvard 1903) Hanover and Prussia 1795-1803:A Study in Neutrality
Glover, G ed (London 2013) A Hussar Sergeant In The King's German Legion Haythornthwaite P (Poole 1978) Uniforms of the Peninsular War 1807-1814 Herring, J H (London 1827) Journal of an Officer in the King's German Legion
Hofschröer P. (London 1989) The Hanoverian Army of the Napoleonic Wars Leonhardt,HH (Hannover 1966) Die Hannoversche Armée 1636-1866
Keep, Bryan (Priv. Pub. Brighton 1981) What is left of the KGL? An Enthusiast's List of Regimental Museum Exhibits in Britain and Europe 1980.
Knötel R (1895) Mitteilungen zur Geschichte der Militarischen tracht (Translated extracts) Knötel R (1937) Handbuch der Uniformkunde
Mollo, John (London 1973) Waterloo Uniforms: 1. British Cavalry Mollo, John (London 1997) The Prince's Dolls
Nafziger GF (1990) Napoléon's German Enemies 1792-1815
Niemeyer J & Ortenburg G ed. (Beckum 1979-81) Das "Gmunder Prachtwerk"
Over K (London 1974) Flags and Standards of the Napoleonic Wars
Rawkins W J & Keep B (Maidenhead 1976) Uniforms of the Kings German Legion 1811 Rawkins W J & Keep B (Maidenhead 1976) The KGL in the Mediterranean 1811
Rawkins W J (Norwich 1984) The Troops of Hanover, Brunswick and the K.G.L
Ronnenberg, J G F (Hannover 1791) Abbildung der Churhannoverschen Armée Uniformen' Schwertfeger, Bernhard (Leipzig 1907) Geschichte der Königlich Deutschen Legion 1803 -1816 2 vols.
Windrow & Embleton (London 1974) Military Dress of the Peninsular War
Wise T (London 1997) Flags of the Napoleonic Wars 3 Vols
Articles and essays from the contributors to the following magazines and online facilities
Napoleon Series, Heer Und Tradition, Depesche, British Army Historical Database,First Empire, Carnet de la Sabretache, Bulletin de la Société des Collectioneurs des Figurines Historiques, Tradition, Le Passepoil, Grosser-Generalstabs, Император, Uniformes, Napoleon Online, Flags Forum, Le Briquet, Lexikus,

The art of
H Boisselier
Louis Braun
Peter Bunde
Pat C Evans
Scharf
Von Röder
André Jouineau
H Knötel
R Knötel
Saloman Pinhas
Perconte
Carl Ernst
Friedrich Schirmer
Georg Schäfer
P F Koch
Michael Roffe
W Aerts
J Klein
Graf Castell
C Hamilton Smith"

while Beamish might be good on the KGL – he isn't on the Hanoverian army.

I would recomend to consult

Jacobi –

Hannover's Theilnahme an der deutschen Erhebung im Frühjahre 1813 mit besonderer Rücksicht auf die Truppenformationen an der Elbe: Mit zwei Terrainzeichnungen

link