"what about Swordpoint or Ancient Empires" Topic

whilst i think now from my other post, that the rules To the strongest seem the ones to invest time in – and perhaps field of glory as i like the pc game versions

two others i am curious about – Swordpoint and its small scale version Milites Mundi

and Ancient Empires from Emperors Press – is that a rules heavy system?

The thing that standsout in my memory about Ancient Empires was the basing was totally different than WRG basing. Nobody wanted to rebase.

Thanks

John

Ancient Empires basing is indeed very different from everything else and the rules are needlessly complex by modern standards.

Georg,

The answer really depends on what sort of gaming experience you're seeking.

Just about all of the currently popular Ancients rules, developed in the last decade or so seem to be aimed at Tournament play. The key driver is a fast simple game where points can be matched up and you can fight a hypothetical action to conclusion 3 or 4 times in a day.

I, on the other hand, couldn't think of anything worse. I come to Ancients from a Napoleonics perspective where the best rules sets for me include more sophisticated command and control system that tries to simulate the differences between Head Quarters and Staff Officer functioning and also the skill and ability of Commanding Officers from Brigade to Army level. The thought of trying to reflect this by just rolling a D6 for some "command pips" is nothing like the experience I'm after but I recognise that it seems to suit lots of Ancients players. Good on them.

I also want to play historical battles, the sorts of actions I read about in the histories. I want to understand how Alexander and Caesar and Hannibal were so successful. How a tiny Macedonian force defeated a Persian force several times its size. I'm not interested in points match ups or games that are finished in an hour.

Thus I am starting to use Ancient Empires because I've found its a quite straighforward set of rules to both read through and play. The campaign modules available include loads of actual historical scenarios. I like that it feels like the history with critical melees taking some time to resolve and light cavalry and skirmishers functioning like the harassing forces they were and close order infantry slugging it out in grinding melees. I like that I get to put hundreds of figures on the table rather a dozen stands. The spectacle is important to me, or else I'd play boardgames. I like that commanders are important and can direct reserves, reinforce weak points, lead manouvers, break through gaps, etc.

Basing isn't a problem for me, I'm using my existing WRG/DBM based figures which seems to be workable, with some interpretations. Still thinking about how to best model the Republican Legions with the basing. At least Ancient Empires tries to model the early Legions properly instead of just bumping opposing bases together and rolling a D6.

Now, they're old rules and could probably do with a refresh and edit, and you need to like detail and authenticity to enjoy them best but I'd certainly recommend them IF YOU'RE NOT AFTER points based, tournament rules.

Nick

It is worth pointing out that DBMM, DBM, Field of Glory, and pretty much all ancient sets, work fine for historical refights. Just because a system has points doesn't mean you have to use them

thanks for the differing views – i like the sound of ancient empires for sure – for me my modelling taste is in that peculiar realm of paper miniatures, in that instead of painting i like drawing the figures and figuring out ways to present them – which is what i ahve been doing for a 3mm napoleonic project for a while. For ancients i had similar ideas but probably larger than 3mm as the armies themselves were not so big usually so larger sizes can be achieved and still have things done on a dining table
i am aware of peter dennis paper armies, they are probably the gold standard but i still always have my heart set of making my own.