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"Scottish Cartis of Weire" Topic


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722 hits since 31 Jul 2023
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Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2023 3:33 p.m. PST

In DB* army lists Phil Barker, in the Scots Commons list, includes "Cartis of Weire" which he says were mounting two small breech-loading cannon and were called for in 1456 and 1471.

I have looked for these via Google but no success. Can anyone tell me what these look like, or link to picture or tell who makes models of these. Thanks much

GurKhan01 Aug 2023 3:40 a.m. PST

There is no detailed description in the original Acts of Parliament that call for these carts, so you can do more or less what you like:

[1456/5]
Item it is thocht spedfull that the king mak request to certane of the gret baronys† of the lande that ar of ony mycht to mak cartis of weire, and in ilkane [have] twa gunnys and ilkane of thame to haif twa chawmirys with the remanent of the gere that efferis tharto with a cunnande man to schut thame. Ande gif thai haif na craft in the schutinge of thame as now, thai may leir or the tym cum that will be neidfull to haif thame.
(Item, it is thought expedient that the king make request to certain of the great barons of the land that are of might to make carts of war, and each of them to have two guns, and each of them to have two chambers with the remnant of the gear that is appropriate thereto, with cunning men to shoot them. And if they have no craft in shooting them, as now, they may learn before the time comes that it will be needful to have them.)

The "two chambers" are obviously the removable breech-chambers.

The 1471 Act has even less detail:
[1471/5/5]
Item, as to the article that [gif] it happyinis our auld enimys to invaide the realme, that it war expedient to gar certane cartis of ver be maide be prelatis barones eftir the faculte and power of the persones for the defens of the realme, the lordis thinkis expedient that the said cartis of veir be maid be the said persones as for this tyme.

from rps.ac.uk

Swampster14 Aug 2023 5:25 a.m. PST

link is more about the next generation but it refers back to some earlier developments.
(If you are not a JSTOR member, you can sign up and get free access via e.g. a Google account).
I think it is the 1497 raid on Norham that used "ii Great Curtaldes, x Falcons or Littal Serpentyns [and] xxi Cart Gunnys of weir'. From the numbers, I suspect the carts are pretty small – more like organ guns with fewer tubes.

This paper link has a couple of pictures which it labels as Carts of War but they are based on Henry VIII's – changes in technology and fashion were rapid enough that I would be wary of using them for the 1470s but they _may_ be suitable for a Flodden army since that is the same date as Henry's pieces and there was continental involvement in the Scottish artillery. They are two barrelled though.

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