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"Cold Wars 2024 Cancelled?" Topic

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21 Jul 2023 7:17 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Cold Wars 2024 Cancelled" to "Cold Wars 2024 Cancelled?"

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Martyn K27 Jul 2023 2:23 p.m. PST

Murphy, I am with you on Kimchi. At one time I could even tell you which region of Korea a certain Kimchi came from. As well as being delicious it has a lot of great health benefits. If only I could get my girlfriend to enjoy it.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP27 Jul 2023 4:47 p.m. PST

Martyn, I tried to get my son to like it. That didn't happen, and like with most Americans, they either like it or can't stand it as they can't get past the smell.
Like Guinness and Haggis, it's an "Acquired Taste"… wink

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP27 Jul 2023 5:05 p.m. PST

Martyn, if you're a roundeye, eat kimchi and still have a girlfriend, call yourself a winner and leave it at that.

Remembering my last meal in the ROK. Never had hair on a hamburger before or since. I like the ROKs. They're good people on average. But my approach to Korean cuisine is highly selective.

Martyn K27 Jul 2023 6:28 p.m. PST

I lived in Chinhae for 3.5 years, never had a Western meal that I didn't cook myself, or have at a Toni Romas when I went to Seoul once every two months. Love the food.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP28 Jul 2023 4:22 a.m. PST

I knew I'd been in country too long when I could walk into that all-night eatery near 8th Army HQ in Yongsan at 0200, and the guy behind the counter would say "Pizza? Ten inch? Eat here?" before I opened my mouth. My gang was in line when they opened the first Wendy's. Coming up on 40 years now.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP28 Jul 2023 7:16 a.m. PST

"Coming up on 40 years now."

Congrats Robert! grin
31 years here for me.
HHC 19th SUPCOM, Camp Henry and Camp Walker.
Taegu, (now Daegu), ROK.

HMS Exeter28 Jul 2023 10:12 a.m. PST

I must confess I've never had Kimchi.

My closest encounter was in M.A.S.H., when Frank was sure Koreans had sown mines around the camp. He went out with a mine sweeper and dug up an earthen ware pot.

Hawkeye comes up and lifts the lid and explains its a Kimchi pot, and says…

"Do you know what this means, man? You've struck cole slaw!"

Paladin X28 Jul 2023 12:24 p.m. PST

HMGS is not canceling Cold Wars permanently. The management at Valley Forge has become "difficult" after Covid. There is a issue with assigning a convention director. These issues will be resolved in the future, however there will be no 2024 Cold Wars.

3ADFAVet28 Jul 2023 12:52 p.m. PST

I'd love to see a official announcement to that effect. Cold Wars has always been my favorite HMGS convention, probably because it was usually the first event I would attend after a long Winter painting new figures and terrain.

Regarding Kimchi, my kids did Taikwondo for many years, and their Korean Masters had an annual family day around Christmas, and they always had authentic Korean food.

Grumble8710628 Jul 2023 1:50 p.m. PST

My grandparents moved back to the USA (Germantown PA) after decades in Korea. Their home became the stopping-off point for families who were back in Pennsylvania and suffering from kimchi withdrawal. They kept a steady supply fermenting in the basement.

Students at the school where I taught would ask me, "When are we going out to eat rice and rotten cabbage again?"

The Gonk28 Jul 2023 3:16 p.m. PST

I have a lot of fond memories of the Host, but it was an absolute dump and I really enjoyed the LCCC. One year our Host room had literal poo smeared on the bathroom door.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP28 Jul 2023 3:23 p.m. PST

Murph, my second tour (1995?) was HHC 19 TAACOM at Henry and Walker. I bet we've been in the same bunker!

First tour was 501st MI up at Yongsan. Given back to the locals, I understand: the real estate became too valuable.

The Town House. A think the 24/7 facility was the Town House.

HMS Exeter28 Jul 2023 7:15 p.m. PST

Maybe HMGS(E) could try and acclimatize us away from the Host by providing little "scratch and sniff" cards infused with the aroma of sauer kraut.

TSD10128 Jul 2023 8:25 p.m. PST

I have a lot of fond memories of the Host, but it was an absolute dump

Maybe HMGS(E) could try and acclimatize us away from the Host by providing little "scratch and sniff" cards infused with the aroma of sauer kraut.

You guys are aware the Host is now the Wyndham and its been completely renovated for the last several years right?

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP29 Jul 2023 9:11 a.m. PST

Hush, TSD. The vision of the Host as some sort of decaying ruin is a core belief of some HMGS members. Introducing reality into the conversation would only upset them.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP29 Jul 2023 11:02 a.m. PST

"Murph, my second tour (1995?) was HHC 19 TAACOM at Henry and Walker. I bet we've been in the same bunker!"

Yeps. I worked for SPO and was the PERSEC NCO and worked the KISS mainframe, (that mysterious computer system room back behind the locked vault door at the end of the hallway….

One of the best duties I ever had in the army. Man I miss it.
If I knew I was going back to Fort Bliss, I would've extended…and extended….and extended….

HMS Exeter29 Jul 2023 1:24 p.m. PST

I've frequently said the Wyndham needed to scent infuse its' halls with the aroma of sauer kraut to try to get us to re-imprint our affection to the new decor.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP29 Jul 2023 2:26 p.m. PST

Count your blessings, Murph. After my first Korea tour, they sent me to Fort Campbell. I called Branch. She said that given the rate at which people left the post, there was no way not be be assigned there. My NCOIC told me that the most recent six senior intel NOCs assigned to Campbell had never reported. The retired, they extended, they flew to another base and signed in there, and one of them shot himself on receipt of Campbell orders.
The division commander said his big problem running the place was that he was losing 25% of his NCOs per quarter as they put themselves in for overseas levy. (I didn't say anything: I'd already re-upped for Germany.)

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP29 Jul 2023 4:32 p.m. PST

"The vision of the Host as some sort of decaying ruin is a core belief of some HMGS members. Introducing reality into the conversation would only upset them."

Unfortunately Robert, The Host was a decaying ruin.
Here are some of the quotes on the status of the host, (all from different posts right here on TMP):

* "Why does HMGS keep going back to the Host? The airconditioning was down in the dealers hall, again. They turned the A/C off in Distelfink Thursday night, it was a sauna Friday morning. I can go back years with similar problems; A/C not working in dealer's hall, Lampeter, Distelfink, etc., water leakage in lampeter, ceiling collapse in Lampeter one year. I find it very hard to believe there is nothing that can beat this dog of a site"

* " I have to admit, I'm all for moving to a place that can provide AIR CONDITIONING in the summer. This is the 21st century and the problem of cooling large rooms should not be an issue anymore."

* "The facilty itself borders on disgusting; dirty, low-ceilinged, poorly-lit and ventilated. By mid-afternoon the bathrooms look like "Das Boot" and the gaming areas reek of stale hot dogs and onions."

* "The building is about as unfriendly as possible to people trying to carry or load/unload large, bulky, or heavy items. (God knows how they've avoided ADA lawsuits up to now, with the awkward, narrow halls and zillion staircases everywhere with only one elevator.)"

* "But a facility could have: (A) ventilation in the bathrooms! (Just a simple fan, fer crissakes?!) and (B) people regularly cleaning them, emptying trash, refilling soap, etc."

* "We got into Lancaster Thursday night after an hour and 10 minute drive from Baltimore. Check in was easy. She went ahead to the room while I pulled the truck around to the closest door. She's on top of stuff, tonight was no different. She inspected the sheets and mattress seams for bugs but while doing this discovered several human hairs on the pillow case and sheets (none were short and curly). "

* "The building needs work. How someone hasn't died on the crumbling steps yet is beyond me. And of course the leaking roof was ever present. It did seem as if any housekeeping was addressed quickly. Bathrooms were clean as could be…though the one in the vendors hall was rather ripe and could be smelled as far as the "Age of Glory" booth"

* "Door handles don't match
Flies in the room
Mold and hair in the tub
Tub won't drain
Sink won't drain
No Jameson's at the bar
Half the food items not available at bar
Soda guns at bar don't work
Drawer of dresser just slides open
Usual large stains on rug
Closet door doesn't close
Two big water stains on ceiling
Watched them mess up every single order for food at the bar for an hour, and they weren't busy at all"

I think I could go on, but if you wish to read more, just type in "The Host", on TMP search and you'll get alllllll the verification you need that "The Host was a dump"…

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP29 Jul 2023 4:37 p.m. PST

Robert, I came back from Korea, to Bliss and had to deal with a crazy soon to be ex-wife, her boyfriend being chaptered out of the army because he didn't like PT but loved cheeseburgers too much, my wife's attempts to have me killed, a unit that had a horrible safety record, an alcoholic squadron commander, a senior NCO in charge of our section that had had a nervous breakdown, almost an entire battery up on CM charges and/or ART 15 for forming a gang and doing a drive by gang style shooting at the Dairy Queen on Dyer street, a guy in my unit on his way to Leavenworth due to the fact that he DID shoot someone, a guy in my section that that wrote 5K worth of bad checks, p*ssed on the CO's door and then deserted, another guy in my section that brought a gun into the barracks room and shot it off the first weekend we were allowed NOT to have CQ's, and a new 1st Sgt that they tried to kill 4 times in the first month….
Welcome to 3rd ACR Fort Bliss…

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2023 3:57 a.m. PST

"Was" Murph. Exeter and others keep speaking as though the renovations never took place. Raise any questions about the shining city on a hill which is the LCCC, and the response is some anecdote about difficulties with the Host c. 2017. No one's proposing a time travel con.

Sounds as though the 3rd ACR was at a serious low point. I was at Campbell when an AAR at the 101st Abn (AASLT) concluded that many of the people we were assigning as armed guards shouldn't be trusted with weapons and ammo--but it would place an undue burden on trustworthy soldiers to only assign them. I was around when a senior NCO in 3rd ID tried to blow up the gas station--and wasn't taken off arms room access--and the SgtMaj we inherited from the 82nd because they were sending him death threats and the 82nd had more access to live ammo than we did.

The "Hollow Force" was always entertaining.

Personal logo BrigadeGames Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2023 2:02 p.m. PST

Out of the three conventions, Cold Wars has been the most inconsistent the last 10 years.

Fall In under Dan Murawski (very missed) grew for many years.

Cold Wars, has been for several years, my worst show.

I also want to say that even though it is 2 hours closer for me I do despise the VFCC. They have done nothing IMO to earn our business and could really care less. There is little option onsite for food, but better than the previous show there. That the hospitality staff had to be convinced to open the bar again this year is insane. (and that the LCC Marriot closes the bar at 1030 is also a crazy business decision.)

Volunteers are a problem.
I had the same 10+ years ago in Scouting. Same dedicated people that return time and again.

With a new convention director needed to lead the charge and the venues not being cooperative it was inevitable for 2024. The break will give time to get a cd, and negotiate an appropriate contract.

The Wyndham (Host) is a nice venue now. However, while the new owners had us as "persona non-grata" when they took over and their wedding business didn;t pan out as good as they expected, they were more accomodating. It does appear that they are still a PITA to deal with but each con there is better as they learn the ropes with HMGS.

If you want to make a difference, get to one or both of the conventions. Attendance drives everything. If you don't attend, then don't have any right for your complaints to be heard.

Looking forward to Fall In.

TRUgamer01 Aug 2023 1:41 p.m. PST

This desire to cling onto the memory of former condition problems of the old Host are baffling to me. Anyone who has attended a convention at the fully renovated Wyndham would understand that any perceived comparison is just simply nonsense. These visages of the old Host exist only in your minds.


robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2023 3:57 p.m. PST

"If you don't attend, then don't have any right for your complaints to be heard."

Pretty much backward BrigadeGames. If you go right on attending, why should anyone listen to your complaints? You're obviously satisfied enough. If you have no intention of attending, that's different. Again, tending to your complaints gets the con director nothing.

The logical focus should be the ones who attend some cons and not others, who used to attend but don't now, or the newbies looking at attending--people who might attend if certain decisions are made, but not if you make others. Mind you, that's a harder group to isolate, and they may not all want the same things. But if you want to grow a con, those are the people you should be looking at.

Personal logo BrigadeGames Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Aug 2023 1:46 p.m. PST

"robert piepenbrink" all I see if you constantly complaining. Not sure if you have been to a con lately.
So unless you have experiences relating to the current state of the cons, then why should anyone listen?

Sure I attend. Sure I am satisfied. I put my money where my mouth is and I support the club the best I can.

I don't bitch ad-nauseam about every little detail that I don't like while in turn not supporting any of the HMGS cons.

Do I have opinions? Absolutely.
Could it be better? Are there things I would like improved?
Of course, and I provide those thoughts to HMGS board members and con directors. Many solicit my opinions.

As I said in the other CW thread, stability of location is key to growing attendance. For me, those other vendors I have spoken to, and I would assume all my vendor compatriots, increasing attendance is key. Our measurement is sales which is driven by attendance.

Attendance grows through proper marketing. HMGS does not do enough marketing to current, former and prospective members and attendees. There are way too many distractions for the demographic. The club puts on great cons and we just need to continue to polish some edges and get the word out.

Covid was a sucker punch for pretty much everyone. Heck, the LCC Marriott seemed to finally hired adequate staff. But HMGS still has some things to get them to improve. It took years to get the Wyndham/Host to that point. Unfortunately, after ownership/management changes we are in a similar situation at the Wyndham/Host although further along the path.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP05 Aug 2023 9:13 a.m. PST

BrigadeGames +1.

I'm reading this on a Saturday afternoon, and agree with everything you have said. A stable location for the con is an absolute "do or die" must have for it to continue and grow. Unfortunately this is not the case with CW.
And just because a convention grows in size doesn't mean that it is a good thing. Read some of the comments on social media about the current Gen Con…

Personal logo Old Contemptible Supporting Member of TMP05 Aug 2023 11:23 p.m. PST

If you move H-Con to another location, I am not going. I am just one person but I know others who feel the same way.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP06 Aug 2023 1:47 p.m. PST

A man without a name puts my name in quotes? As though anyone would invent it? I think my best year was five conventions, but that was pre-COVID--and before HMGS started playing "hide the convention." One a year since, and I'm trying to get back up to two.

And I don't think my "constantly complaining" said anything worse about the LCCC than you've said about Valley Forge--unless you're actually a kimshi wholesaler.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP06 Aug 2023 2:57 p.m. PST

Hmph. Should have added that I completely agree with Brigade Games about the importance of stable locations and marketing.

Bill N07 Aug 2023 9:35 a.m. PST

Interesting comments Brigade Games. I would point out though that there are different groups that hit Historicon and its siblings, and each of us have differing priorities. As a day tripper one critical criteria is either on site or within walking distance parking. It would stink rolling out of bed early and driving 3-4 hours only to find out we had to take an Uber from parking to the facility. Plus not being able to readily return to the car would restrict the amount of loot that we could buy.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Aug 2023 11:57 a.m. PST

"If you move H-Con to another location, I am not going. I am just one person but I know others who feel the same way."

Just out of curiosity where would you be coming out of?

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2023 1:56 p.m. PST

Just get this from the HMGS President:

"There are no plans to permanently cancel Cold Wars. We are evaluating candidates to be the Convention Director for Cold Wars 2025, and will be looking hard at locations and dates."

Not exactly a line drawn in the sand or sounding the brigade rally, but somewhat positive.

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