"Individual ready reserve" Topic

link

My experience is 40 years ago, so others with more recent knowledge can correct me.

I was in the IRR for several years, after being in an active Reserve unit for several. I didn't even bother to keep my uniforms.

Different but similar story: I have a good friend was a major in a Reserve unit that was a headquarters. During Desert Storm the HQ of Fort Clark was all deployed, and my friend's Reserve unit was called up to run the fort. He told me that one of their first jobs was to set up firing ranges for every weapon in Reserve unit's inventories, as dozens of units were being called up and deployed out of Clark. He said there were truck units with 50 cal. MGs on ring mounts that were so rusted that the only way they could point the weapon was to pivot the truck!

AND he said you'd see guys in civies, who had sold their uniforms. Even if you were in a unit, if you stopped attending drills nothing happened except you just didn't get paid. But legally you were still in. So when the call up came, a bunch of guys who thought they were OUT found out they were still IN.

Sounds like what happen to many WW 2 vets in the Korea War.

Just saw the US is sending 3000 NG or Res. to Europe. Not sure where. They may just be going to Germany or Poland ?

Hope they kept their uniforms ! 😎

As a sidebar. In the US Military even if you are out of Active, Res, or NG unless you resign your commission. AFAIK You are still an officer.

Of course, if true, if they start calling up like me and my fellow comrades. The US really is in trouble !!!!
😲🤯🤩

Seems like the US armies recruitment problems are biting hard and I guess its not like you can just phone a temp agency…. Could be a lot worse though.

Oh yes, the US culture has changed. Few are joining the US Military. For a number of reasons. Many parents if they had been in the Military are not wanting their sons & daughters to join Military. With the current "favor" of the Military and society.

Patriotism is at a premium in the US… They are taught in school what a terrible racist country the USA is, etc. by many woke teachers, etc.

Some don't like the DEI, CRT, woke, etc., dogma, that is being pushed and in turn IMO is wasting time. When they should be learning real combat skills, etc. Lethality … not the woke agenda, etc.

Note: many of the US Military come from the SE USA. Yes, former CSA states in many cases. Plus, from rural areas and suburbs of the Mid-West. Those were Union states FWIW.

But all are Americans … however many today don't see it that way. The ACW should be taught accurately. But now the ACW is now being used to divide, based what happened almost 2 Centuries ago. With embracing woke, DEI, CRT/1619, etc. dogma …

Not surprisingly in this current environment few want to join the Military.

Did anyone see the statement -- I'm trying to find it now -- by a current high level DOD civilian, that they do not WANT a "warrior class" so are trying to recruit non-traditional folks?

That'll work.

I have heard similar. But whoever said something like that is just moronic. History tells us we have to have a warrior class. A lethal group of Alphas. Not the majority being Betas, etc. Seems to me many in high places don't know history or how to fight wars.

Will non-traditional types be effective war fighters ? I don't think so based on my experience and training. Some shun "toxic masculinity". Well, to a big point that is a key factor in combat arms being effective. Yes, kill the enemy in large numbers often. That is how I was trained … That goes a long way to winning wars.

History tells us we have to have a warrior class.

We have one already. I believe a very significant number of the current serving military, both officer and enlisted have a family history of service. In our immediate family it was simply what you did and meeting the friends of both my children (one served and out, one still in), they were all also children of parents who served. That isn't a broad enough piece of the populace where only 1 in 4 of relevant age has the mental, physical and criminal background check to serve. Fixing the base from which we recruit is the biggest problem.

A lethal group of Alphas.

In my experience, anybody who thinks they are, or worse tells you they are, isn't. I'd prefer thoughtful patriots who regard service as simply the obligation that goes with the privilege of living here.

We have been here before Legion. As you know I think the problem is more economic than cultural. With the ongoing low unemployment rate and solid economic trends, other than inflation, the military needs marketing help. It's not the toxic thing either. We have plenty of popular violent sports, including pro fighting.

Also we have too many unfit young people. The pay and benefits need to be increased significantly to attract new and better candidates and demand the best from them. I know you did not see it in your time Legion, but many black general officers have described racial discrimination. You can't have only one or two black brigade commanders and expect black kids will join.The Army is usually around 20% African Americans. Esprit de corps goes out the window without equal treatment.

This is not WW2. You get what you pay for these days. Invest in the warriors first, stop obsessing over high tech gadgets. In America, low pay is a sign of disrespect. Fix it, then you can demand high standards for requires.

Just saw the US is sending 3000 NG or Res. to Europe…

They are saying this is a hypothetical move. It gives them the option, but nobody is being sent immediately.

I thought it was the "Inactive Ready Reserve".

When I left the Army in 1988 I was reminded I had signed a contract to serve six years. I promptly forgot; I was 17 it all sounded like mumbo jumbo disclaimer stuff I didn't pay much attention to. After I served 4 years Active Duty I was informed I had the option to be in the "Active Reserve" or the "Inactive Reserve". I went Active Reserve and was so horrified by what I experienced I transferred to the Inactive Reserve after my first drill.

In 1989 I enlisted in the Navy and when I reached my end of service in 1993 my situation was different. I was standing in line on my last day, Reserve ID cards were being passed out. The Yeoman had a clipboard and stack of IDs moving down the line passing them out taking our Active-Duty ID cards. When he reached me, he did not issue me a Reserve ID card, I was the only one to not receive one. I thought he made a mistake and asked him where my Reserve ID card was. The Yeoman informed me, " You have a total 8 years of active-duty service you are only required to serve 6 years and can never be called back ever again. You have fulfilled any and all military obligations to your country. (The smile I had on my face that day…)

"that they do not WANT a "warrior class" so are trying to recruit non-traditional folks?"

Wait until they encounter warriors on the battlefield and are promptly slaughtered wholesale…

"As you know I think the problem is more economic than cultural."

It is both…

Some join for economic reasons. I work with some that would love to reenlist just to get base housing and travel, but it would mean the end of their marriages.

Some join for the adventure, excitement and espirit de corps. I believe all of it is slowly being murdered by "Woke" agendas. Mandatory Woke training and being bashed for being declared a "toxic male rapist" is making men leave the military in mass. They are under orders to attend and be a captive audience to this disrespect and toxic Woke agendas. I hear this firsthand from prior service veterans that recently left the military. The problem is a certain political party won't listen to them it does not fit their narrative. It is much better to create an alternative reality and label the men that leave.

There is something that could be done. Screen the people that are going to deliver the WOKE message heavily. Many of them are psychotic, angry, vindictive and toxic. It comes out in their confrontational lecturing style and the labels they toss around. Now is their big chance to get revenge on a captive audience under the pretense this is training… Can that crap and the WOKE message might be received better.

Perhaps it also has something to do with the near constant warfare over the last 20 years (until the withdrawal from Afghanistan). As a high school teacher right next to an army base I saw the strain that deployments put on families. Prior to 9/11/2001 the military was an excellent opportunity to learn discipline, leadership, and job skills (still is) but, unlike the last 20 years, a very low probability of being put in harm's way let alone year long deployments. That changes the attractiveness of the opportunities dramatically.
Phil

"near constant warfare over the last 20 years"

They use people up and burn them out. I know people that joined the Reserve and practically became full time active duty against their will. In the Reserve you have a civilian life, civilian job, school, business owner and possibly family. All of that can be destroyed in an instant and needs to be rebuilt.

My sister was a captain in the Army Reserve and her husband gave her an ultimatum, get out or get divorced.

Yeah, the marriage thing needs to be looked at, they need better support. Too many military families using food banks, from what I saw on the news recently.

I only know a couple of recent vets and they did not notice a lot of woke stuff, just went with it and moved on. They did not have much to say about it.

I think the military's approach to woke flies in the face of common sense. Pronouns on the battlefield, or anywhere else, need to be clear and understood by everyone. Calling one person "they" for example. Disaster awaits.

For the rest of it, make absolutely sure every soldier is treated equally. There are not just two black officers qualified to be brigade commanders in the army, I'm guessing. You want to recruit career soldiers, you had better be ready to show them a career path based on merit.

And get a qualified PR team together and start working on groups you want to recruit from. This work is not some afterthought. It's takes some serious skills, data, design, research and implementation. You won't have an army without getting this right. It's part of logistics. But it still looks like nobody's home when it comes to this.

And – this group should get some data together about the impact of woke on recruitment. I cannot find anything solid that backs up woke being the problem. I don't support this woke training, I just want some clear and substantial data that shows that: people have left the army because of woke.. people do not join the army because of woke. Then you can tackle the problem.
This indicates that family is the main reason people don't stay.
link

"I don't support this woke training, I just want some clear and substantial data that shows that: people have left the army because of woke."

It won't fit the narrative so you will never see the data.

The US Army mindset has been built around the rural south since the end of the revolution.
That's why the south did as well as they did in the Civil War- more embedded in military culture.
Recruitment is bad because the Army is not looking at where the potential recruits are, who they are, and what they want.
Far more of the population is urban now.
Advertising on a NASCAR event will not reach them.

Again, my own experience is decades ago, but there was a point -- in the 1980s, say, -- when most elite infantry (Rangers, Green Berets, etc) were southern white evangelicals.

There were plenty of blacks, but disproportionately they went into skilled jobs with post-service market value. Or into the Navy or Air Force.

Individual Ready Reserve, I was in that for about 10 years. You are not assigned to a unit and have no particular obligation to do much other than keep your address current.

I tired signing up for tours and earning points, the Army was downsizing, with the Cold War ending, and was unable to get enough points each year to stay in.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

We have one already.

Yes, we do and we need to keep it that way. IMO the Military needs to be/stay professionals. In the old days, they called them "Regulars" …

In my experience, anybody who thinks they are, or worse tells you they are, isn't. I'd prefer thoughtful patriots who regard service as simply the obligation that goes with the privilege of living here.

I agree … you know who the Alphas are by their performance, etc. That was my experience as both a Rifle Plt Ldr and Mech Co. Cdr. No one goes around saying they are Alphas. It becomes clear as time goes on. Some of my friends in the 101 were Airborne Rangers Green Berets. Those guys were Alphas and it probably never crossed their minds.

As you know I think the problem is more economic than cultural.

Economics does play a part. Always has …

but many black general officers have described racial discrimination

Never came up in my time on active duty. I didn't see anything like that. E.g. my Rifle Plt in the 101 was authorized 36, but the On Hand number varied at times. However, only 8 of us were considered "White". The rest were mostly Black with some Hispanics. But we all were American Soldiers …

No one ever complained to me about racism. Our 1st SGT was Black as well. As was my Co. 1st SGT when I took over that Mech Co. No problems with racism. That was my experience. Everyone was treated equally, sometimes like . But you were in the Infantry. That sometimes was part of the deal.

But generally, when someone joins, they don't know or care about how many Black senior officers or even NCOs there are. Or even who the Post is named after.

It gives them the option, but nobody is being sent immediately.

It will take a little time to get those troops on the ground anyway. That unit(s) better be prepping now, IMO.

I went Active Reserve and was so horrified by what I experienced I transferred to the Inactive Reserve after my first drill.

I have heard similar. I only served in the USAR for about a year. They were OK. They had served in Desert Storm.

Perhaps it also has something to do with the near constant warfare over the last 20 years

My experience since the US had few people in the Military, the general public was really not concerned. They didn't know anyone in the Military. But being next to an Army Base, that was not the case as you saw.

They use people up and burn them out. I know people that joined the Reserve and practically became full time active duty

Yes, with many USAR/NG having 4-5 or even more deployments to Iraq and A'stan. Chewed people up and spit them out. I'm not sure why the Military did that ?

However, they did the same to active duty. As we all know the needs of e.g. the Army comes first. For centuries it was "You take the King's coin, you do the King's bidding." … However, No one would think they'd be deployed 4-5 times or more.

Yeah, the marriage thing needs to be looked at, they need better support. Too many military families using food banks, from what I saw on the news recently.

Even when I was on active duty some troops with families were on food stamps.

The best soldiering, I experienced was in my 2 tours in the ROK. It was unaccompanied in the 2ID if you were married. No distractions just training, doing your duty, etc.

It won't fit the narrative so you will never see the data.

Bingo !

The US Army mindset has been built around the rural south since the end of the revolution.
That's why the south did as well as they did in the Civil War- more embedded in military culture.

Ben +1 I agree …

in the 1980s, say, -- when most elite infantry (Rangers, Green Berets, etc) were southern white evangelicals.

I was on Active from '79-'90. That was never my experience. I don't remember any white evangelicals being in any of the 4 Infantry Bns or the 1 CBT SPT Bn I served in. Plus all the Airborne Rangers and Green Berets I knew, religion was never much of a factor. As Dragon pointed out –

Some join for the adventure, excitement and espirit de corps.

Yes that is very true. Those are some of the reasons I joined. Sometimes some people like being e.g. Soldiers, Marines, etc. for various reasons.

However, there was no draft. Those that joined volunteered … So that was on the way of making them "Patriots" IMO. However, that word rarely came up. You just did your duty to the best of your ability. AFAIK no one was looking to be a Patriot, get medals, be John Wayne, etc. In the 4 Infantry Bns I served in. We seemed to be too busy for that.

Doing your duty to the best of your ability was why you were there. If you didn't … well, we all know how that works. You didn't want to let your fellow troops down. Which could be fatal in some cases.

I thought it was the "Inactive Ready Reserve".

Yep that kept me from getting a job before Desert Shield turned to Storm. Got to explain over and over that I wasn't getting recalled. Boom, Storm over and next day 2 job offers called.

"All Reserve and Guard service members are assigned to one of three Reserve component categories -- the Ready Reserve, the Standby Reserve and the Retired Reserve. The Ready Reserve There are three categories of the Ready Reserve: Inactive National Guard, Individual Ready Reserve and Selected Reserve."

So there are three reserve categories. It sounds like they did some slight renaming over the years.

" Plus all the Airborne Rangers and Green Berets I knew, religion was never much of a factor."

None of the guys I met were religious or what I would even call spiritual. Hardcore patriots ready to lay down their lives and kill for their country were in abundance.

"And get a qualified PR team together and start working on groups you want to recruit from."

The question is what do you want to recruit from? Some of the recent commercials seem to have forgotten the primary mission of the military and embrace partisan politics. I would go so far as to say they were not even commercials just political statements.

You should try conscription. It is a good system. You call in EVERY 18 yr old and test them. then you pick out the best ones for service.

That way you get exactly what the forces need. Then, always, the argument comes up "conscripts have lower morale". Nope, I have meet several "professional soldiers" who did not exactly display high morale (or skill for that matter).

"You call in EVERY 18 yr old and test them. then you pick out the best ones for service."

If the draft was administered that way you could pick "the best" (Some would go out of their way to fail…). In its current form it is just a lottery with an unpleasant prize for some.

If things don't improve, I see only two possibilities. Start conscripting to fill vacancies in the military. The alternative is to pay through the nose to attract and retain the volunteers the country needs

Can't we just send 3000 social workers instead?
I mean if it's good enough for 911 calls……😉

You want to recruit the most qualified people to start with, and this means identifying the qualities of a top recruit considering today's realities.

Then, where are they, what are they looking for, where does that intersect with a career in the military? You need research, data, communicators to reach them. You need to tell them why they should chose the military in a way they reflects their aspirations. Make the right people want to join, tell them why they should. People who can pass basic requirements, which is another problem today.

Paying through the nose? We already do that for every thing the military buys. Plus, that's what we do for medicine and health care, oil, vehicles, entertainment etc. all the time. Make people understand that this investment is just as important.

Pay our soldiers more than a living wage. At least this next budget will have raises. They leave military service to make sure they can care for their families. They are not going to join a force that requires much training skill and commitment, put their lives on the line, unless we give them the respect of a better wage. No more food banks.

Get control of military procurement, cut out some expensive gizmos, congressional earmarks, where so much waste comes from. . Can you imagine what we could do with the billions wasted on the Navy's LCS program? Thanks to a couple of Congressmen, the Navy has to keep these some of these vessels.

The real function is to be strong enough, good enough to keep the peace. This means people. We need to be shouting from the rooftops how important this is, and how much we care about people willing to serve.

35th, I have seen good social workers diffuse bad situations that cops were getting nowhere with. They are a great adjunct. People will often talk to them and cool down, their skill set can save lives. Cops are glad to have them for some of the wacky stuff that happens.

Then by all means send them. 🙂

None of the guys I met were religious or what I would even call spiritual. Hardcore patriots ready to lay down their lives and kill for their country were in abundance.

As I said, that is the way I saw it …

If the draft was administered that way you could pick "the best" (Some would go out of their way to fail…). In its current form it is just a lottery with an unpleasant prize for some.

The Draft would not be a solution currently. You need the "material" to build a capable military. As the Pentagon has already reported, 70% + of draft age males[females don't get drafted or should!] could not pass many of requirements. It's been that way for decades.

Congress would never let a Draft be in affect again. For a number of reasons. Until the USA's cultural evisceration, purging of history, etc., by a very vocal minority. You will not get the men to fill the slots of the capable troopers, etc. That is needed to have a first-rate Military …

Can't we just send 3000 social workers instead?

Send'm to the Ukraine for OJT.

and this means identifying the qualities of a top recruit considering today's realities.

We know the qualities, etc., we want but those are few in number from the general population at this time. We have to unindoctrinate a generation or more. Not the woke, DEI, CRT/1619, etc., etc., narrative that is currently in spreading like an alien virus. By progressives, the far left, etc., etc.

And as I so frequently say, we need good capable leaders starting at the very top on down. Until that happens, we will be a nation in chaos.

They should work only as an adjunct!! No way they go instead – that was surely not my point. I would want them on call to assist and advise for things like domestics as needed. And they can handle follow-up services if needed. They have no training or authority to detain. We ask police, and teachers, among others, to wear too many hats sometimes.

Many countries have a working draft system, Finland, Norway and Sweden are some.

I´m sure there are many in the US that would be fit or smart enough to be eligible for military service if drafted. Most people who are drafted do their duty, they might not be super enthusiastic but do their duty to the best of their ability. Very few malinger and screw up. I seriously doubt this would be much different in the US.

But of course the US needs full time personell who serve for many years. You cannot crew a carrier or nuclear sub with conscripts. But as a complement draft could work. I see no reason why it should not work. And of course women should be drafted as well. This is an equal opportunity world, everyone should have a chance to serve and die for their country.

I´m sure there are many in the US that would be fit or smart enough to be eligible for military service if drafted.

I doubt that would occur. In today's current US cultural climate, … Plus Congress would never let that happen. For a number of reasons, with many being personal. E.g. … How many in Congress would want the possibility of their child, kin, etc. being drafted. Then KIA'd, maimed, etc. in a war in some 3d World hole …

And of course women should be drafted as well. This is an equal opportunity world, everyone should have a chance to serve and die for their country.

That idea has gone round & round for a few years in Congress. Eventually they wisely decided not to have females sign up for the Draft at 18. And will not be drafted. But they can volunteer … and do …

Plus to "serve & die for their country" … not popular especially with today's youth.

Legion, guaranteed loss to the party that proposes it. 🤣

But all those youth will quickly forget all their other perceived problems and causes.

Nothing gives you something real to fear, like the implementation of a draft and the real chance of combat. 😉

I spoke to three military recruiters recently at lunch, and I specifically asked them what are the issues with missing recruitment goals.
1. Kids and their drug use. The recruiter have the tools to have the kid pass the drug test but most kids think it is too much effort and don't want to quit drug usage.
2. Most kids cannot pass the basic physical fitness requirements. Not enough physical activity in their lives. The recruiters have physical fitness plans for the kids before they go on active duty in about 60% of the enlistees.
3. Finally, many just can't pass the ASVAB. Many kids have to take it multiple times to get a score to get a decent job.

" that they do not WANT a "warrior class" so are trying to recruit non-traditional folks?"

Because they think war is almost all "push button" now, and can be fought via video game controllers…

"Make people understand that this investment is just as important."

Yes an honest discussion with the American public! What should someone be paid to risk their life and the possibility of being crippled or disfigured to protect you, your way of life and your loved ones? What would you pay someone to kill other people on your behalf, so you don't have to? We should have an honest job description of all aspects of military life and compare military compensation to civilian equivalents.

What some civilian jobs are paid compared to the military is ridiculous. It makes me wish I was a mercenary sometimes able to negotiate my services like a civilian. The public gets off cheap as long as young men believe in concepts of honor, sacrifice and service. When that stops being respected or only given lip service people will stop volunteering.

"Because they think war is almost all "push button" now, and can be fought via video game controllers…"

Pampered spoiled civilians divorced from reality have this viewpoint. Hollywood tells them everything they need to know…

35thOVI +1 …

I have seen good social workers diffuse bad situations that cops were getting nowhere with.

Are there enough
Social Workers to ride along with every Police Car ?

Or at least a few per each shift ?

Will you find enough that are willing to do a ride along ?

Yes, at times specially trained LEOs or even people like Social Workers, etc. who get to the crime scene. To defuse a hot situation. Certainly, could be useful. But at times the LEOs on the ground don't have the option but to use force. To save innocent lives.

God forbid any social worker gets KIA or WIA … Specially train LEOs are the better option. But it takes at least a little time to get on the scene. The LEOs at the situation may not have that time.

Oh, it takes $ to train specially trained LEOs for this additional duty. And there still are activists even in gov't that push for defunding the police.

I have heard similar Cigar Lover … Taking in substandard recruits will in many cases make substandard units. I'd think based on my past experiences & training this is a "good" option.

Because they think war is almost all "push button" now, and can be fought via video game controllers…

As we know, just because they can play video games does not equate to them being good soldiers, etc. We see in the Ukraine, even with all the drones in use, Infantry, Tanks, FA, etc. are still very much in use. And won't be going anywhere soon.

Dragon +1 … on all your posts here … You know the reality of the situation. As do I …

Pampered spoiled civilians divorced from reality have this viewpoint. Hollywood tells them everything they need to know…

Yes, many who are making these decisions, to defund the Police, etc., are neither qualified or have a woke/political, etc., agenda. They are pushing this agenda/narrative, from a position of activism not real leadership. And many of the elected "activists" have bodyguards.

Errata :

my past experiences & training this is a "good" option.

Should read "this is not a very good option." …

DOH !!!!

Honestly Legion, I am not really sure how social workers could be allocated. You cannot put them in physical danger. Everything you say is true. Force may be needed. Any situation could go south in a hurry. I was thinking about protective service workers in particular. Usually street smart and well trained, called in for situations involving little kids, juveniles, crazy family stuff. Many are good investigators, specialized. There are never enough. They only last a couple of years.

Dragon gunner, I am talking about skilled professional advertising and PR, not a discussion but a campaign to get people to value the qualities you mentioned. I agree with everything you say. There is no pay rate that matches putting your life on the line. But I don't want to see their families in line at a food bank, as I did in a recent news broadcast. Pay is a mark of respect. If you read my link, the army surveyed people who left about 18 months ago and it was almost always to provide better care for their families. That ain't right. You gotta start with these basics.

Obviously I was joking. 🙂

But I do feel that sending social workers out to a police destination is almost equally as useless and a doubt most would go into a situation of potential death, which even many domestic disputes turn into. (Guns, knifes and other weapons show up frequently).

I am not really sure how social workers could be allocated. You cannot put them in physical danger. Everything you say is true. Force may be needed. Any situation could go south in a hurry.

Yes and that all would be the rub. I'd think you'd be better off with more LEO training. But as we see many are still talking about defunding the police, police are vilified, etc., no one wants to be a LEO under these conditions.

Obviously I was joking.

Obviously it was hyperbole. But I still think OJT in Ukraine would be a great opportunity to get these social workers some real training !! 😁

In the past, I believe a lot of IRR troops getting pulled back into active duty were helicopter pilots.

The number of IRR folks is 450. The Army alone has well over 100,000 IRR troops.

My guess is aviation and transportation will be big.

@legion 😉

Hey social work is not easy! Protective services are overwhelmed with child abuse cases all the time. Some bad ones. They have critical skills, handle what no one else wants to deal with. They are overwhelmed and fried in no time, get replaced. It a different kind of war….

Yes, helicopter pilots. I have a friend who could not get out well into his 40s doing that, mostly in the Middle East.

The problem with the draft has been it was not universal, as illustrated by Cheney who "had better things to do." Our military has always depended on folks who see no future in small towns and rural areas, simple economics. For the last 20 years there has been a group of teenage males, not going to college, not joined the military and not the going into work force. They haven't disappeared or anything sinister, just living with their folks.