![The Miniatures Page logo](tmpshead.jpg)
"Weapons at Gettysburg – The Spencer Repeating Rifle" Topic
15 Posts
All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.
In order to respect possible copyright issues, when quoting from a book or article, please quote no more than three paragraphs.
For more information, see the TMP FAQ.
Back to the ACW Discussion Message Board Back to the Firearms Message Board
Areas of InterestRenaissance 18th Century Napoleonic American Civil War 19th Century World War One World War Two on the Land Modern
Featured Hobby News Article
Featured Link
Top-Rated Ruleset
Featured Showcase Article![Fire/Explosion Markers pack](showcase/genshowcase/91215a.jpg) Looking for a way to mark explosions or fire?
Featured Workbench Article![Female Israeli soldier](workbench/pics/mod/2023/659811a.jpg) What happens when AI generates Women Warriors?
Featured Profile Article
|
Tango01 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 09 Jul 2023 8:33 p.m. PST |
"For many years, students of the Battle of Gettysburg have sung the praises of the Spencer rifle and its contribution to the great Union victory. Numerous authors have suggested that it was the Spencer that helped derail the Confederate attack on the morning of July 1; that General John Buford's cavalry troopers, armed with their Spencer carbines, repelled wave after wave of Confederate infantry. The contributions of the Spencer to Union victory are not limited to July 1st however. Captain O. E. Hunt, U.S. Army, and Instructor at the U.S.M.A. wrote in his report on The Ordnance Department of the Federal Army: 1860-1865, about the superiority of the Spencer rifle and its use by General John Geary's 12th Corps soldiers on July 2nd. "Due to the use of the Spencer rifle by part of General Geary's troops at Gettysburg, a whole division of Ewell's corps was repulsed by inferior numbers." Captain Hunt continues: " Of this action an eye-witness said, ‘ The head of the column ( Confederate) , as it was pushed on by those behind, appeared to melt away or sink into the earth, for though continually moving, it got no nearer.'" As we shall see, Hunt's report made for stirring reading but like many references about Spencers and Gettysburg it had no foundation in fact. This unique weapon was the invention of Christopher Minor Spencer. Throughout the 1850's, Christopher Spencer was an inventor and tinkerer. While working for The Colt Manufacturing Company in Hartford, Connecticut, Spencer got interested in gun manufacturing. He tinkered around with the idea of a single shot, magazine fed, repeating rifle which used a large metallic cartridge. In 1860 Spencer applied for and received a U.S. patent for his Spencer Repeating Rifle. Raising capital and securing a manufacturing site in Boston, MA, Spencer began limited production of "his rifle". Expecting U.S. Government contracts to flood into his new business after the Confederacy was formed and war was a certainty, the 28 year old Christopher Spencer was greatly disappointed. The U.S. Ordnance Department passed on the Spencer rifle in favor of time-tested and less expensive weapons. (In 1860 Spencer priced his rifle at $45.00 USD. In comparison an 1861 Springfield muzzle loader was $14.00 USD)…" Main page link
Armand
|
ScottWashburn ![Sponsoring Member of TMP Sponsoring Member of TMP](boards/icons/sponsor.gif) | 10 Jul 2023 8:01 a.m. PST |
The start of the article is odd. "For many years, students of the Battle of Gettysburg have sung the praises of the Spencer rifle and its contribution to the great Union victory." Really? Never in all the reading I've done on Gettysburg have I ever read or heard anyone make that claim. The information that follows on the Spencer is fine, but the author wants us to believe he's debunking some great myth. Sorry, no way. |
donlowry | 10 Jul 2023 8:43 a.m. PST |
Agreed. And Buford's cavalry did NOT have Spencers at Gettysburg! One of Custer's regiments, and one battalion of another did (the rifle version, not carbines), but none of the other regiments in the Army of the Potomac at that time, cavalry or infantry! |
ScottWashburn ![Sponsoring Member of TMP Sponsoring Member of TMP](boards/icons/sponsor.gif) | 10 Jul 2023 10:39 a.m. PST |
Yes, according to my sources you are exactly correct. Most of Buford's men did have the Sharp's carbine which had a higher rate of fire than a muzzle-loading weapon, but nowhere near the what a Spencer would have had. |
Bill N | 10 Jul 2023 12:24 p.m. PST |
Until this article I had not heard anything about men in the XII Corps having Spencers. |
Tango01 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 10 Jul 2023 3:36 p.m. PST |
|
gamertom ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 10 Jul 2023 5:29 p.m. PST |
If anyone reads the full article, it clearly states Buford's men had no Spencers nor did the XIIth Corps. I think the author both was repeating a false statement that O. Hunt made and was making a straw man to knock down. The article still had interesting information. |
Blutarski | 11 Jul 2023 12:33 p.m. PST |
I dredged up my copy of "Regimental Strengths at Gettysburg" by Busey and Martin, which provides data on the armament of all Union formations present at Gettysburg. The only formations of the Army of the Potomac cited as being armed with Spencer Rifles were the 5th and 6th Michigan Cavalry. The 5th is shown as armed exclusively with Spencer Rifles; the 6th is shown as armed with a mix of Spencer Rifles and Burnside Carbines. FWIW, Greene's 3rd (NY) Brigade, 2nd Division of 12th Corps (60th, 78th, 102nd, 137th, and 149th NY), which heroically held Culp's Hill against great odds were all armed with Enfields. B
|
Tango01 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 11 Jul 2023 3:21 p.m. PST |
|
donlowry | 11 Jul 2023 4:56 p.m. PST |
The only formations of the Army of the Potomac cited as being armed with Spencer Rifles were the 5th and 6th Michigan Cavalry. In Custer's brigade, like I said. |
Blutarski | 12 Jul 2023 4:06 p.m. PST |
Hi donlowry, I wasn't trying to dispute you, just filling in some additional minor detail. B |
Bill N | 13 Jul 2023 7:10 a.m. PST |
I think the author both was repeating a false statement that O. Hunt made and was making a straw man to knock down. What is the point of mentioning a factually incorrect quote that very few have ever heard…especially if you are not going to be providing proof the quote was wrong? |
Tango01 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 13 Jul 2023 3:20 p.m. PST |
|
Old Contemptible ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 13 Jul 2023 10:28 p.m. PST |
The myth of Buford's 1st Cavalry having Spencer repeaters at Gettysburg is a persistent one. I saw a video about Gettysburg on Youtube spousing the myth and I immediately corrected them. The only units I am aware of that had repeaters are a few of Custer's troopers as pointed out earlier. In college, as part of a research assignment, I tried to find the source of the myth. I don't remember the details but it was an article in one of the big Northern papers after the battle. All they said was that Buford's troopers had a superior weapon to the infantry musket. What they were talking about was the breechloading carbines the troopers were armed with. But it morphed into Spencer Repeating Carbines and it still crops up ever so often. |
Tango01 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 14 Jul 2023 3:44 p.m. PST |
|
|