"3d printing Bretonians for the old world, what size?" Topic

So as people likely know, GW is going to be re-vamping WH Fantasy and I am considering 3d printing a army to use incase I ever start actually playing a Warhammer Fantasy the Old World.

I basicly want to 3d print a proxy Bretonian army, to have available. I may or may not be ever actually be able to play warhammer fantasy against a proper player, as I am in a small town, so having a proxie army is plenty acceptable, and having a 3d printer, why would I not! I do want to have a army just incase I actually find a local person who actually plays Warhammer fantasy.

So the question is, What size are GW miniatures are they 28mm, or 32 or what actual size. So basicly, from the foot to the eyes, how many millimeters do I want them to be. I would like to have things match size wise.

To the consternation of most wargamers, the size issue is maddening.

So- HOW TALL to the EYES is likely the best answer I can get.

For Monster races, Orcs, Goblins, Skaven, ect, its not that big of a deal, but for Humans, like bretonians, it is.

How well does GW Bretonians scale next to say a Perry Miniature?

Does any one know or have a guess what any future new GW Old world Bretonians are supposed to be?

Search the Internet for size photos. Or… Order a small sample set/figure from GW/e-Bay, and measure it yourself. Cheers!

How well does GW Bretonians scale next to say a Perry Miniature?

Depends on which GW Bretonnians you are talking (there having been around four separate releases between 1985 and 2004), which Perry range you want to compare them with (e.g. Agincourt to Orleans range tends to be larger than many others), and especially whether you are interested in infantry or cavalry.

Assuming that you are referring to the latest releases (early 2004), then the infantry are not particularly tall, but they are rather bulky (aka "heroicially proportioned"). I have a few assembled ones at home, will try to measure them if I remember.

As for cavalry, I do not have any of the 2004 releases at the moment (though I have some older ones), so cannot measure the caparisoned horses, though they are also certainly rather bulky.

This raises an interesting point.

Are the new figures going to be exactly the same scale?

If they are doing new moulds, even of existing figures, a rescale is not hard to do. Also if they are converting figures for resin, then they could be scanned and rescaled.

Mantic did something similar for the new Empire of dust. With the statue dudes, they have been rescaled to be a bit bigger.

So the truth is, who knows?

Best bet is to look at the new GW pictures. If the characters are on 25mm bases, you may be able to figure out a height, unless the bases are in an angle.

It also sounds a bad idea.

If no one around plays WH, then perhaps don't print an army in case you find someone. Its possible that one person won't want to play against a printed army, for one reason or other.

Best idea is to simply wait.

Failing that, or as well as, buy a few figures, like heros, maybe front ranks. Then look for similar figures from other companies that are cheaper. There are lots of ideas for proxies. At least people may be more willing to play if you have attempted to use GW and otherwise similar figures.

Assuming that you are referring to the latest releases (early 2004), then the infantry are not particularly tall, but they are rather bulky (aka "heroicially proportioned"). I have a few assembled ones at home, will try to measure them if I remember.

Now I have dug up three plastic Bretonnian infantry figures from the 2004 releases, assembled from the bodies and heads on the command sprue. Measuring from the soles to the eye level, the three figures are respectively 26, 27 and 28 mm tall. You shouldn't have trouble finding miniatures of similar height.

But as I mentioned before, these figures are bulky, with voluminous clothes and heroic proportions, so many figures from historical ranges may look rather anorectic next to them.

As for Bretonnian horses from 2004 range, I do not have any examples to measure, though they are certainly quite large.

Have a look at this designer on Thingiverse.

link

link

link

I'm still not sure why go to all the hassle?

With things like this easily available:

link

Obviously there are many manufacturers pumping them out already.

I guess free? print files are cheaper ?? If you have already made an investment in a printer and associated parafanalia.

Better to pick from plastic/metal/resin, buy from someone offering some level of quality control, then put your feet up.

If you want them cheaper, you can always buy a couple of two packs and creep out to the back shed.

Of course I mean drinking covertly.

But, if you can afford a fancy computer and 3d printer, you can afford some minis.

Most of my 28mm Medieval army is made by Viking Forge and Perry.

Perry would be a good pick for some authenticity, as they sculpted much of GWs range.

link

An interesting article on the topic.

Unfortunately (or deliberately??) GW has chosen to start with one of the easiest armies to proxy in the Bretonnians.

And then less easy in the Tomb kings. Of course there are still options there, like the recently renewed Empire of dust from Mantic.

Perry would be a good pick for some authenticity, as they sculpted much of GWs range.

Perrys sculpted the Bretonnian models released between 1985 and 1997, but not the 2004 releases.

As for the Perry historical ranges, they tend to be of a slender style than many of the fantasy ranges they sculpted for GW, so may look a bit anorectic next to those. However, their early 15th century Agincourt to Orleans range (available in metal and plastic) is a bit bulkier, and could work decently as a basis for a Bretonnian force – though the horses are a bit skinny compared to GW ones.

Fireforge games has already been mentioned, but might be worth mentioning again: they have a rather chunky/bulky style reminiscent of GW, and do a range of medieval plastics that could work many roles in a Bretonnian army. There are archers, foot sergeants (for use as men-at-arms and grail pilgrims), mounted sergeants (for use as mounted yeomen) and a variety of knights.

If it's all Perry proxies them the figures will look fine. Your problem would be if and when you try and add a GW miniature.

If you keep your powder dry they will probably bring out a rulebook once they have sold lots of boxsets.

"Perrys sculpted the Bretonnian models released between 1985 and 1997, but not the 2004 releases."

I'll stick my response over on my TOW topic.

I have a printer, and think everyone who wargames in anyways should at least consider getting a printer. A person can print 20 or so 28mm human sized miniatures for between one to two dollars using Sunlu resin which I like even better then the Siraya resin and it cheaper, and its quite durable.

I guess either I should just pick a size or wait to see what size GW actually sells stuff at. either that or just go 15mm and use what I have, which is painted already.

My Perry stuff is mostly crusaders, and as said above, they are not so heroic, but closer to normal proportions. Heroic is a little easier to print though. Logs of good choice, and thanks for the links to the thingiverse GW clones, I havent seen that Cor Beau site on thingiverse, but they may have been sculpted at slightly lower resilution then I like. I do have some of the Highland Miniatures STL and a few others that would print up for Bretonians, or Empire.

Ultimately I guess a person should just wait to print up until one sees what GW actually pushes on people.

People do know that if you 3d print already, that the cost of printing an entire army is likely cheaper then what people pay for one box of GW miniatures. Really, the only problem with 3d printers is having the time to paint everything you print.

Well a peice of card can be maybe 50cents. Most print places charge $1 USD a page or less for colour, so thats no more than $2.50 USD. probably less at home I'd assume. 9 cards on a page, that's about 30 cents each for a sweet looking magic the gathering card. We will, of course assume everyone has a fancy computer, printer (or use a service, if they let you), gilateen or knife/scissors, and one of those fancy corner cutters from the craft Shop (around $20 USD).

Somehow still, card shops stay in business.

Beats me.

Its almost like people like buying things.

Hey, maybe George Lucas wasn't far off with his fancy geometric shapes after all.

Who'd have thunk it.

Moving on.

The main issue is, as far as GW, they are only proxies. So it will always be a poor man's army.

Is the price of 20 for $1 USD-2 correct? That does sound cheap, after forking out for all the hard ware, of course.

Though casting resin is about the same.

Most every one in the modern world has access to a computer, my computer is about 10 years old, it handles every task for 3d printing just fine, you dont need a fancy computer, I still run windows 7. the only hardware you need to buy, if you are living in the modern world, is the 3d printed, you can even cure your resin prints in the sun if your that cheap, but i use a 20 dollar uv light i bought off amazon, or ebay or what ever. If you are reading this post, you most likely have a computer that is fine for 3d printing. and SUNLU ABS resin is now my go to resin, I pay about 25 dollars a liter for it, but they have a new resin that is 30-35 dollars that is ever like even better, and if you are intentionally try to break your minis printed with it, you can, but you know, you can break metal minatures if you want to also, if that is your intent. And you know, you might buy a few mini files off of MyMinifactory, and if you only buy what you actually print, and use, you will be fine. you buy a STL, you can print one or a hundred.

So back in the early days of MTG, a friend of mine handed a photo copy fake of a black lotus to Richard Garfield at a fantasy convention and asked him to sigh it, and before he signed it, he told Garfield that it was a fake, Garfield signed it anyways, knowing it was a fake. And told him, he never intended MTG to be the extreme of collecting that it had become, this was back when a Black Lotus could be had for a few hundred dollars, I have a couple fake Black Lotus cards from the same printing, they sure look nice. and while I rarely play MTG any more, mostly with my children, I still occasionally use it.

I could care less if someone is using a proxy or not, only that it looks good, in either mtg or a wargame, I would not be happy to play against a piece of paper with the name scribbled on a blank sheet of paper saying this is a black lotus. WoTC( or some may say HASBRO) has pretty much ruined MTG anyways, Just Like they are ruining Dungeons and Dragons, Why are people so dedicated to GW?????

Play wargames, use what you have, play old editions, or new editions, just enjoy the hobby, the more people wargaming or TTRPG or anything to do with such the better it is for everyone. Its like if I showed up at a MTG tournament with original cards and they said my one turn deck was banned, you know, black lotus, channel, fireball! moxes to make sure, and a demonic tutor incase I just didnt get one of the needed cards? The deck is worth THOUSANDS of DOLLARS, and it Banned, and GW make people spend thousands of dollars, and then paint all the miniatures to use them, and make them just as worthless as that deck. And people still have loyalty to them????

3d print, or buy GW or Proxies, or clones….. WHAT EVER…
JUST HAVE FUN IN WHAT YOU ARE DOING! and let other people have fun with you in what they are doing. Fantasy, SCIFI, Historicals, its all good. BUT if YOU TOLD PEOPLE THEY HAD TO HAVE THE BLACK LOTUS CHANNEL FIREBALL DECK TO PLAY, NOBODY WOULD PLAY!!!!!

H Man you are so stupidly repetitive about 3d printing. why do you even come to the 3d part of the forum? Oh yeah, to tell people they are stupid for enjoying 3d printing. Give it up. Your assumptions are baseless and silly. You have no idea what you are talking about. I use a $150 USD computer to save, modify, slice and store my 3d files. It's hardly fancy. Printers are dirt cheap.

stop raining on people's excitement over giving 3d printing a go, and crawl back under the rock you live under.

At least it's a real rock.

I'll never be a surgeon, not accidentally hitting nerves like that.

Actually, a quick look up top shows this is posted on several boards, like the fantasy and Warhammer boards I found it on.

That said, I'll go to the 3d printing board if and when I choose, thanks very much.

Honestly I think the issue resides with some 3d printing fanatics who dream of everyone else being like them. Fortunately the world does not work that way.

3d printing will do no more for wargaming than microwaves have for cooking.

If people want to use 3d printers for making figures, thats up to them, but they are in the minority. Most wargamers buy figures. Most companies cast figures.

H Man

It goes like this.

Give a Man a fish, and you feed him for a day, Teach a man to fish and you feed him a lifetime.

The 3d printer is like feeding you for a lifetime.

You can even print up a army and give it to a friend for super cheap if you want, and give him the fish! you want to play 15mm, scale you miniature to 15mm, 20mm fine also, 28mm thats also fine, 35mm, you can do that all, 54mm do that also! the 3d print gives you SO many options, want to print warhammer- print warhammer, want to print up a entire fleet of WW1 battleships, you have it, Age of Sail? you can print that fleet also. Dungeon and Dragons anyone? print up that horde of 200 giant rats, or add those 200 giant rats to your skaven army you printed. want to try a Chaos army but dont want to drop a grand just to try it? buy a liter and print it up! Oh you need some terrain? you can print that also! if you have a spare 50,000 dollars to buy all that stuff, fine knock your self out, GW will not thank you though, but after you give them your money, they will spit in your face, and tell you your army is now obsolete, you need to buy the re-vamped version!

Do I still buy miniatures? yes, occasionally, mostly metal. I like the heaviness of metal miniatures better. but I can add a LOT of variety the meager offerings that the manufactuers can produce. There are a lot of artistic miniatures created buy all sorts of people from all over the world, not just 1 or 2 mistreated artists working for GW.

A 3d printer opens up so many different games also. Because a 3d printer is a TOOL, that can feed you for a lifetime, not just feed you for a day.

So the original question how tall to the eyes for Bretonians for the old world, because to the extent possible, I like my miniatures to match scale wise, I prefer not to have a 35mm miniature next to a 25mm miniature that were all sold to me as being a 28mm miniature. Thats a whole 10mm difference, all sold as being 28mm. with a 3d printed army you can have everything to scale, what ever scale you like, if you want your 28mm to actually be 32mm, you can do that, because the miniature manufacturers REFUSE to do that. and I along with MANY MANY people HATE IT, and a 3d printer gives us a way to make everything to scale!

"I along with MANY MANY people HATE IT"

I see.

"a 3d printer gives us a way to make everything to scale!"

Different manufacturers use different scales to differentiate themselves and avoid clashing with others.

If computer engineers made everything exactly the same, or allow you to manipulate it, it starts voiding itself.

For example, if someone engineered a file for a generic ACW union soldier in a certain pose, especially if it's offered free, there is no need for anyone to ever do that again in any scale.

Compare that to the variety of such figures available cast today and some people's expected future sounds very dull indeed O'Neal.

"want to print warhammer- print warhammer, want to print up a entire fleet of WW1 battleships, you have it, Age of Sail? you can print that fleet also. Dungeon and Dragons anyone? print up that horde of 200 giant rats, or add those 200 giant rats to your skaven army you printed"

Last I checked GW and Wizards of the coast don't offer print files. I've never seen any Skaven ones.

So, no, you can't print those companies miniatures at all.

Only proxies.

Also.

If you look at many licensed miniatures, GWs LOTR, WLs Dr Who, Star Trek ships, for example, they are all usually different scales and not compatible from one licencee to the next.

So, if they were to licence out for 3d prints, the licensor (I hope I have that right) will want the scale to be locked down, I'd assume, so other 3d file makers could also licence it at a later date and still be able to offer something different.

I'm not sure how the star trek chaps I keep seeing advertised here work? Can you change their scale?

It may operate differently to selling physical items, as it's a computer file. However if you can print Kirk at any scale you want, why would you want to buy Mantics Kirk next year? For example. Or if another print file company gets the rights, how will their Kirk be different?

So H Man, what miniature company do you work for? GW?

Yes, I'm their CEO.

Seriously though I do commission painting, sculpting, terrain and rules.

Trying to understand the post there.

Simply put, if everyone 3d printed their own GW minis without GWs involvement, then GW would go out of business and there would be no new GW minis to copy.

Obviously everyone is not doing this. But if they did…

And should that make it ok for some to do it??

I have no real issue with some cheeky casting for personal use. But giving away files is not personal use, and obviously harms sales, beyond the first person.

Anyway Bretonnians are basically medieval Knights and there are plenty of those around.

It is interesting when a company, like GW, create (Hmm…) something so popular that people will happily pull the wheels off the apple cart to get some.

Look at film piracy for an example.

I know most 3d knock offs arnt exact duplicates, but neither are many shakey, blurry or oddly packaged dodgey dvds.

I'm still not sure if this is an answer? But no, I don't work for GW, at the moment.

So H Man, now people can understand where you come from. If GW went away, then your commission painting would go away? It likely would at least decrease. But if you do commission rules, isnt that the same as piracy of rules?

From my perspective, I could careless whether GW stayed in business or prospered. They basically plagerized from other products, primarily TSR products in the first place, but who cares. everythings a copy of something else. If it were not, we would still be in the stone age.

Other than a box of GW Minis that I got in a garage sale, I dont think I own no GW miniatures ( but I have lots of minis, so maybe I have some Im unaware of)( kind of like guns, I dont even know how many I have, and have some Ive never shot), But If I 3d print some mini's there is a chance that I may end up buying a rule book for the OLD World, if I find people wanting to play.

Just as a note, I recently noticed that Mantic now has some ship model STL for people to print, ( you have to buy them of coarse) but they are starting to embarrass 3d printing instead of fighting 3d printing.

I also dont care, whether my minis look exactly like some other persons GW minis as you. I am not looking for clones ( Hmm dont people like to kit bash miniatures) and I dont know if you have ever looked at what is available at Myminifactory but you should. If you are a artist, you really need to, because there is a lot of better artists making minis of all kinds of artistic styles other than what GW produces. All sorts of styles, ie something for everyone, not just everyone have the same stale offerings that GW produces. But if your a artist, you should know that! unless you only paint the same old miniature over and over for sale, kind of like production painting by people in Indonesia.

And back to my original post, It wasnt about whether to print or not, but what size do I scale them to, so they are the same scale as someone who may actually be playing a army using GW miniatures.

Oh by the way, 3d printed armies does not mean shaky blurry or dodgey models.

Since, as per your post, you presumably have some artistic skill, have you considered "digitally" sculpting some miniatures, there are some people making a ton of money doing such you know, if that is your goal. to me, my miniatures are a hobby, Ive never made a single penny with any of my miniatures, and currently I could careless if I ever do, but there are a lot of people making lots of money from digital miniatures, maybe you should look to embarrassing 3d printing.

So have you ever looked at Museum Miniatures? they are a 15mm miniature manufacturer who a few years ago, started 3d sculpting there miniatures then casting them in metal. And yes, even though I have a 3d printer, I have bought quite a few. why? so I have variety! I have miniatures from lots of Miniature manufacturers ( mostly 15mm) you know, Demonworld, Battle Valor, Splintered Light, Khurasan, Mirliton, essex, cobblestone, Old GLory alternative Army, and on and on. Really, Who really needs GW. Its just a name, kind of like Kleenex, but you know, I never actually buy kleenex, I just buy facial tissues and call them kleeneses. Miniatures existed before GW and they will exist after GW. There is a whole other world out there besides GW! 3d Printing greatly expands that world and opens up a whole new world to those who are interested!

I just got done painting some Trolls, you know 1st edition DND trolls, like in the 1st edition Monster Manual. Dont even know if anyone even sells any such, but I printed some, mirrored some made a few bigger then the others also, and they look great, maybe you would mock my bases, I put most my miniatures on washers, and paint them grey for DND (scaled for 28mm) and brown for wargaming (scaled for 15mm) , but I have a full encounter group of 1st edition trolls, payed a few bucks for the STLs and a couple bucks for the resin, at 5 to 10 dollars a piece, would have cost me more then I would be willing to pay for trolls, but 3d printing them. no big deal, Do I save money? not likely because I have tons of STL's Ive bought, that may or may never be printed, but I when or if I ever do print them, I can have as few or many as I want at any size I want, AND I AM NOT GIVING MY MONEY TO A GREEDY CORPORATION THAT DESPISES ME BUT TO SMALL TIME ARTISTS! YOU KNOW, HUNGRY ARTIST LIKE YOURSELF!(YOU CLAIM YOU CANT EVEN AFFORD A SIMPLE COMPUTER AND A 200 DOLLAR PRINTER) PEOPLE IN BRITIAN, IN THE USA, IVE EVEN BOUGHT SOME STLS VIA PATREON FROM A ARTIST IN THE UKRAINE! WHO THE BLOODY HELL CARES ABOUT GAMES WORKSHOP!

"WHO THE B****Y H**L CARES ABOUT GAMES WORKSHOP!"

I'll bleep the language in case it violates TMP rules.

I once heard a nun (I think she was) say that she never believed in God. Then something bad happened and she cursed him. Then realised that to get that angry she must believe in him after all.

Perhaps the person who wants some figures that are the correct size for Games Workshop figures cares about Games Workshop? May that be safe to say?

"if you do commission rules, isnt that the same as piracy of rules?"

Perhaps, if I copied someone else's rules, which I wouldn't.

"kind of like guns, I dont even know how many I have"

That's disturbing.

"I recently noticed that Mantic now has some ship model STL for people to print"

Cheers. I'll check that out.

"artistic skill, have you considered "digitally" sculpting some miniatures"

Im an artist, not a computer engineer.

"Ive never made a single penny with any of my miniatures, and currently I could careless if I ever do,"

Yeah, I think that's it.

However many people do and that should be respected. Again just like film piracy.

Look at the ads on TMP, there is a list of manufacturers too. Why not pick something from them, I'm sure they would be appreciative.