"Mantic's response?" Topic

Just wondering what Mantics response to Warhammer the old world may be?

Actually, I suspect it's already begun, as there is a long lead up to the new game/edition.

On the flip side, its odd GW are starting with Tomb Kings, as Mantic have recently redone Empire of dust.

Perhaps it even worked the other way, with Mantic getting inside info that GW was planning TK, so Mantic pushed out EOD.

To me the new Tomb kings hero looks fab, but the new Eod looks poor compared to the previous models.

I will say that I understand both comps doing these armies, as both were simply upgrades of other undead models.

Still, the timing is suspicious.

Also remember, the northern Alliance also seems to be in step with the earlier GW Kislev update. Being with a year or two, so lining up behind the scenes that one comp may have had info on the other.

That said, where are Mantics beastmen or nobal Knights?

So perhaps it's GW targeting upcoming Mantic releases that share a look with their own?

Perhaps the two worlds are so similar that this type of thing is inevitable?

I can't see that Mantic makes NA, them GW redesigns Kislev as complete coincidence though.

Also Mantic redoes EOF, then suddenly Tomb Kings get 1 new figure rushed out to show they are doing an entire army?

No, too suspicious for me.

Also

These may be tactics by GW to hamper Mantic.

They may have known of the NA and EOD releases and had someone whip out a few Kislev sketches and someone else knock up an undead chap (in a good way).

Cost GW very little, to begin with, until they have to back it up with an army.

However just that one picture of a Tomb king model would have had 100s if not 1000s of people the world over put a hold on buying any EOD. Meaning not only has it single handedly hampered sales of the new figures, but also the older models that may remain on shelves, further blocking sales of the new stuff.

Probably less so for northern Alliance, but to some extent similar I'm sure.

However, come TOW release, Mantic are well placed to be a cheaper alternative, and in some ways more established as well.

One tell will be if this caper continues.

So a quick look shows the new Empire of dust for preorder June 2022.

That's essentially one year before Tomb kings are announced as confirmed for the old world, along with one figure to show for it.

Coincidence?

I'm not all up on tow law, and I assume undead feature, but Tomb kings seem an odd choice, not the first army most would think of.

That said, undead used to be treated as one army, so that's probably why it seems odd.

I think the Tomb king cavalry will be something to see, being put up against Bretionan Knights.

But yes.

GW employee "I hear Mantic are redoing their Eod range."
GW management. Spills coffee.

Because on Mantics side, it would have been decided a year or more earlier, so it becomes less likely they knew what GW were thinking that far back.

The base size thing is another clue.

GW decided to up base size because the minis were getting to big for them and hard to rank?

Yes, but that goes back to the 90s, and it never bothered them before.

Now they are up against competition, not just Mantic, but all the others.

So, even before they begin, GW are reacting to the competition.

It really makes you wonder how this is going to play out.

I think Mantic are just filling gaps in the market. If there is demand for Egyptian-style undead because you chaos-nuked your fantasy world, someone is eventually going to go for it in the fullness of time.

Its all quite universal stuff – egyptian skeletons, bestial men, dwarfs of evils. I wouldn't read much further into it.

Its the timing of it.

Egyptian undead aren't that popular.

Nor people with ice swords on bears.

GW bringing out Tomb kings, just as your competitor, who made their Mark with notGW models, have released a new full army of it seems odd.

Essentially GW are trying to get back old fans who shifted to Mantic and others.

So most of those people can buy new EOD and won't need Tomb kings. Its would be a stupid business move by GW. Basically reinventing the wheel.

The whole thing is so chicken/egg.

But I doubt GW would have confirmed TK in time for Mantic to hear if it and get the plastics done.

So I must have been GW knowing new EOD were on the way and slating in TK to disrupt Mantic.

TK are an odd choice for GW. Gothic undead would be more popular. But, Mantic are the only real competition there, apart from Wargods, of course.

However disrupting a key competitor while bringing out a directly opposing game is good business sence.

Confusing.

Tomb Kings make perfect sense because they are not really featured in AoS (at least not in generic egyptian skeleton form). Likewise with the Bretonnians.

People can always just get current AoS gothic skeletons and put them on square bases. Same with Skaven, Beastmen, Chaos, High Elves and a few others.

Having an existing EoD army might not put people off from GW. Mantic are great for affordability and conversions, but GW plastics are on another level entirely. Expensive as hell but very high quality IMO!

I think enough people want the 'good old days' of The Old World and are willing to pay money for it. Don't forget that when it comes to world, art, lore, etc, GW have a major advantage.

Mantic was always WHFB proxies; their whole business is GW of the early 00's

Rank and flank fantasy
Sci Fi Army game
Sci Fi Skirmish game
Naval game
Dungeon crawler

They need a space ship alien and fantasy skirmish game

"Tomb Kings make perfect sense because they are not really featured in AoS.

Likewise with the Bretonnians."

Very good point.

"I think enough people want the 'good old days' of The Old World and are willing to pay money for it."

Yes, to an extent.

I'm probably going to get something, maybe.

"their whole business is GW of the early 00's"

Yes, and now the battle begins for the 2020s.

"They need a space ship alien and fantasy skirmish game"

I believe they have them, or close to.

Star Saga.

And Vanguard.

I'm wondering if the GW base increase isn't to make Mantic, and others less usable.

And the other way that GW figures will be harder to use, especially if they end up filling the bases with later models.

GW say they are fixing a problem, of bases not lining up easily, but that has existed for decades.

Mantic has not been around as long.

I recently saw that Mantic has some STLs for sell ( currently only very small selection, maybe thats going to be mantics response to GW!

vault.manticgames.com

This?

I'm not sure thats a good response.

You walk in to a store and see empty shelves?

Unless they are printing and posting, it's of little use to most. And if they do its probably cheaper to cast them traditionally.

Unfortunately, stores are a thing of the past. Stores of all kinds everywhere are going out of business, and I am not just talking about game/comic stores!

but Mantic is starting the see the light. I didnt say Mantic Vault where you buy the object from them. I said they are starting to sell STL's where you download them and print them with your own 3d resin printer. you can buy one for a couple hundred bucks, and then print 1000s of miniatures of your own if you so choose.

link

Sucks to be in the US, I guess. In Oz we have loads of shops. New sores opening, and closing, all the time. Some have been around for decades, others are new. Comic, games, cards, miniatures, hobbies, computer games, pop culture…

And all the others, department stores, discount stores, shoe shops, book shops, so on and on.

But we do have great cities that are fun to get out an about in, without the constant threat of gun violence, Bikie hits aside.

From what I saw Mantic Vault is where you can get files, as they are giving them away upon sign up. And they show the same models as in the myminifactory link. They must just be using other sites too, like they do with Kickstarter.

Outside of the 3d printers club, most folks prefer to buy physical items, either in store where you can usually see it, or online/mail-order where there are return policies.

Good luck getting your money back for a failed print.

This is why there are places that print things for you. Because most people don't want to have to do it.

If things progress, these services will get bigger, making more figures, having to have more in stock to keep up with demand. Before you know it the printers are dumped for traditional methods that produces higher volume at a cheaper cost.

3d printings success may well be its down fall.

In the end 3d printed miniatures will remain a gimmick with people only buying/making them for nostalgia or just to have one.

That's one possible scenario anyway.

PS One thing Mantic could do, and others, is release their own printer. Even just a partnered rebrand. At least regular folk could try it out knowing its guaranteed to work. Although perhaps there's that return issue again and maybe file makers don't want to have to make guarantees?? It would, however, help to push 3d printing to its ultimate conclusion (hopefully like I forecast above), then we can all get on with our lives.

PPS Thank goodness this isn't appearing on the 3d printing board!

Few things I'm seeing.

Looking at the ratkin tangle and death engion, they are $15 USD as files or $60 USD pre made.

The tangle is Metal and resin, premade.

The tank is resin.

I'd suspect the premade ones are cast resin, not printed. But are probably made from a printed master??

I also suspect the files for sale are the same or modified from the ones used for the masters.

Looking at what's available as files, at the moment, it seems most, if not all are old stock and perhaps poor selling stock. I suspect the ship games is not their biggest seller??

I'd say this is mostly a effort to get people to buy their plastics, over anything else, as there are upgrade files available.

Buy a rat tank to print, then you'll want some rat men to go with it, that sort of thing.

With the ships, its probably just getting more value from the range, stock may be slow to move there?? Compared to KOW, at least.

I don't think Mantic are about to switch to 3dprint files selling and turn the lights off in their Shops or leave independents without stock.

They are just cashing in on a current craze while they can, and getting some extra mileage out of some ip and further promoting their brand along the way.

Its a fun one to watch, if nothing else.

H-man, you buy a 3d printer 200- 500 dollars depending on what you want, you buy a liter of resin, ( buy sunlu its cheaper or better) find a stl you like, anywhere from free to 10 dollars on average, you print anywhere between one of what you want, or 100 or 1000 depending on what you need. average resin cost for you average 28mm human sized miniatures is like maybe 20 cents.

if you only want a total of 20 miniatures that you own total, like you have 0nly 20 miniatures on your shelf, then yes, your right. it makes no sense to buy a 3d printer, if you want a army of hundreds of miniatures, your stupid not to buy a 3d printer, especially if you want more than one army of different races, factions, a army for one of your friends, to get a young kid into wargameing what ever. #d printing IS for the MASSES! its the Future! Take a look at MyMiniFactory, every month 1000's of new designs are available. some you may like, some you may not, No miniature manufacturer produces more content. How long do you sit and wait hoping that GW may release a new miniature, well every month, MyMiniFactory is adding 1000s of new miniatures for you to choose from, and most of it is much better then what the "BIG" companies like GW produce! all you have to do for a lot of it nowdays is download the file, slice it, print it and paint it.

"#d printing IS for the MASSES! its the Future!"

Sorry, but I learn from history, not hype.

For literary decades many house holds have had a computer and paper printer or access to one through a local library, friends or relatives. At least Black and White, but often colour.

That was the future and we are living it today as you can buy a paper printer ready to go with some ink for about 10-20% of a current 3d printer cost.

Such uptake in the paper printing technology and it's availability and rise in quality, along with the paper, at about 1c per sheet of plane A4, has decimated commercial printing.

No longer do we see calenders being sold, as we can print our own at home with whatever pictures we want. Novels are a thing if the past as we can print our own at home. Magazines no longer exist. Newsagents and News stands are a thing of the past. Wargames companies no longer offer printed rules, as we all print out own at home. Hallmark collapsed as we all print our own cards at home now. Comic shops closed up years back as everyone just prints out their own at home. News papers no longer exist. You can't find bazillion trading cards on eBay or in newsagents (which don't exist anyway) because we just print our own at home. Card shops too have gone.

And that, of course is just what the internet didn't destroy. It already closed doctor's surgeries, op shops, retailers, so on. Remember those?

I guess sliders was based on a true story, as I think some people are truly from a different universe.

Luckily, in this one, we need not be concerned. Manufacturers and business es and individuals will continue to make and provide Metal, resin and plastic miniatures for decades to come.

PS I remember printing out calenders on a dot matrix printer when I was a kid. I guess that was about the time they stopped commercial printing and distribution of calendars in the other universe, so often spoken of under this topic.

PPS Thas the same universe where the microwave closed restaurants right? The One where instead of My Kitchen Rules they have Nuken Noodles?

I think the real response needed is support. If you don't want people to wander off you need to support your game. Yes Mantic does support Kings of War but making sure there's support out when Warhammer the Old World comes out would be wise. I would lean towards stuff that works for all the armies, maybe a castle, war machines, generic monsters possibly even unit builder boxes of single pose figures. Mantic's moved away from being the dirt cheap alternative but giving each army maybe one to three fixed pose figures would be a good way to bulk up those huge armies Kings of War excels at.

Interesting.

But Mantic is still a very cheap alternative.

Your paying 1.50au for a foot, 3 for mounted in some army boxes, particularly Empire of dust.

The cheapest I've seen from GW recently is 3 dollars. And that's not New figures.

I have been thinking of the old 80-90s single pose plastics Style should be used, but you remind me they have done them recently.

If they can produce single pose 40k marines, and I believe also sigmar marines, then why not Empire and orcs?

However. If they still have the moulds available from WFB, they would be wise to use them, particularly later models. This is what they appear to be doing. Changing the date on a sprue is far cheaper than completely designing and cutting New moulds.

I suspect some Cross over figures will occur. I believe trolls can be orc, chaos warrior, and beasts??

I strongly suspect we will see the castle return. It is in the photos and its mould would not have been used as much as others, if they still have it.

Also remember, until TOW??? GW have not been selling flock, sand, traditional trees, and so on. But looking at the photos, it appears they will be once again and it will be for all armies.

I do wonder if Mantic won't just pump out all the armies GW arnt doing.

Now the twilight kin are coming out.

Even Empire of dust looks like good strategy with its timing.

They are perhaps using inside information as to what armies are and are not being done at GW.

Abyssal dwarfs may be next?? Or demons of some type.

Mantic strikes back!

link

So now they will give you a free printed core rulebook, less P&p and your details, of course. Or as a PDF.

Just in Time to snare as many as possible before TOW comes out.

Great work Mantic.

Hopefully they will put it in boxes too.

Who knows, maybe they will even have it as an actually free (no personal details needed) download.

One can hope.

The thing that keeps me away are the unit basing and lack of casualty the removal.

Look at the ogres balancing on a hill in the article. Ridiculous.

And you have two dead ogres being dragged around by the last one alive. Also ridiculous.

This is where TOW has them by the…dice.

Such simple things to fix. "Can't be bothered, Warhammer blew up, no point now." They may well have said, but it has kept me at arms length and not Warhammer is coming back.

I feel sorry for KOW players who glued all their figures to boards and now want to play TOW. But only after laughing.

I get the idea, but it's just not practical.

I hope GW have milked unit reduction in the rules. Maybe giving last men/man standing bonuses or chances of it. Maybe give the last 5 a spike in leadership and ws/bs. Even give them an extra wound, after all they survived this long, they not your regular grunt.

I still remember an empire soldier being man of the Match in a WD battle report for surviving alone and getting up to mischief.

This is a strength TOW can use to great advantage.

"My ogres balanced on a hill"

"Oh, yeah! Well my unit of goblins got cut down until only three remained. Empire Knights couldn't even kill them, then they ran between the horses legs and over to a Cannon and killed all the crew. They were still lurking at the edge of the woods at the end of the game."

"Yeah, but my last ogre dragged the other two around for six turns for no particular reason."

Interesting to see how the KOW Twilight kin now differ from WFB Dark elves.

Would this be the first proxy that is now not a proxy?

Is this the way ahead for KOW?

Vermin kin and Empire of dust were pretty copy paste. But there's not much Dark elves left in Twilight kin. In fact it feels half Dark Eldar now, with skiffs and mutants.

This gets interesting with TOW, as you won't be able to use Twilight kin as Dark Elves. Even Vice versa, as if we ever thought that may ever be a thing!

I am beginning to wonder if KOW, at least the newer stuff, still come with individual bases.

I suspect only offering unit bases, as most of their studio stuff is, would hamper people trying to use it for TOW. Although the bases would be bigger anyway.

Also. Whats with the 16 model counts? Are Mantic boxes shrinking?

Again, on a unit base, these cold represent 20 figures with out much of an issue.

Are Mantic trying to further cheapen things, ready to combat TOW?

Less figures in a box and no individual bases would do it.

link

See. There's something.

The night haunts starter set lists 10 reapers. But there's only 8 shown.

This must be because there are 16 in the regular unit.

So you can make two 8 "man" troops from a regular unit, or you get one ten man troop here.

Confusing much.

Also I'm assuming these are resin, as no sprue is shown, plus the fact there can be 10 or 16. So, why not use cheaper and more bang for buck nighthaunt plastics?

Probably because reapers and buchers are also Twilight kin now and Ronnie just ordered a bazillion he needs to get rid of.

Not sure if they are, but these need to be crossed with Firefight/what have you, like rat kin/vermyn. They would make cool Aliens.

PS

It does look like Mantic are cutting down on figures in unit boxes, at least with Twilight kin. And they are not listing numbers on the site.

Is this a push for unit basing? As anyone wanting to field individual bases need more models.