"Controversy at Museum of the American Revolution" Topic

This is disturbing in more ways than one:

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I'm glad the museum didn't cancel the event.

A bad move that was poorly thought out, IMO.

Damned if they did, damned if they didn't.

Perhaps the Museum of the American Revolution should have looked a little further than the word 'liberty.'

Saw part of a report on NBC News last night but didn't see enough to know it was at the Museum of the American Revolution.

Jim

Hosting the event of a radical group is desgraceful for the museum. The protest against the hosting by those who work there and historians is noteworthy. I'll not go to the museum that hosts radical groups that target teachers and ban books.

Not just radical. A designated hate group.

Shameful. As a dyed in the wool liberal, I think it perfectly fine for a museum to rent to liberal groups, conservative groups, and anything in between. But this is a hate group. I would not want them to rent to the Weathermen either.

Perhaps the Museum of the American Revolution should have looked a little further than the word 'liberty.'

Well said. A lot of blood and soil populist groups often use "patriotic" labels to disguise their, sometimes unwitting, anti-government agendas.

I think this article says all we need to know about the heart and soul of "Moms for Liberty"

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It is unfortunate that free speech has become terrorism. If you don't agree completely with the Southern Poverty Law Center, you are a radical, hate group. SPLC should be designated as hate/terrorist organization. The only solution for hate speech, is more free speech. What has the Moms for Liberty done to get this reaction?

I just saw Au pas de Charge's article. A quote from Hitler is what caused this? The quote is true. Communists have been doing it for years and continue to do so now. Oh and they disagree with the current emphasis on the LGBTQ+ teaching agenda. Again, more free speech is needed and letting some activist group shut you down is unconstitutional and evil! my two cents!

I'm always unsure about this sort of thing.

While the group seems awful I can't help but recall the ACLU defending the Nazi Party's right to March in Skokie. Truly free speech would seem to require having to put up with the absolute worst of human bigotry and ignorance be it left or right so long as it does not incite actual violence no matter how vile the cause or concept.

This paints no miniatures. But really, taking the SPLC seriously? And GLAAD may be worse in such matters.

Raynman is right on the money. Not that Antifa or Black Lives Matter would deign to set foot in the Museum of the American Revolution, but if they did, would there be such an outcry from the Left? There certainly wasn't when Antifa and BLM were looting and burning their way through the US in 2020. Mainstream media has turned many sheep into haters of whatever group they consider a "hate group" because they don't toe the Liberal line. Leftists seem to forget their hate speech orgy all throughout 2016--2020 (and of course before and after).

@Raynman

Moms for Liberty are about censoring books, censoring ideas. There is no indication that they contribute anything else other than monitoring the behavior and speech of others. It seems rather odd that a group like that should get 1st Amendment courtesies. Unless, part of the 1st Amendment is the right to both advocate and enforce a repeal of the 1st Amendment?

Also, there have been charges that Moms of Liberty do not actually read the books they censor. The flub with the Hitler quote suggests that their members are not ones to be widely read or even bother to vet their own releases. Lord knows who fed this quote to her.

Are you saying that Hitler should be quoted if what he says is true? Or if the Communists do it also?

@McKinstry

The Museum is a private entity and there is no reason for Moms of Liberty to be afforded 1st Amendment protections there. Additionally, I think we can deduce that Moms of Liberty, not being a intellectual or historical body, chose the Museum to further "Americanize" their reputation. They could've held this event at a number of other venues but chose to have it at a historical one which I suspect they have very little true regard for.

No. Moms for Liberty are a fine group, who simply want parental involvement in their kids' schooling. The Southern Poverty Law Center (which did some good work decades ago) is now the leading purveyor of HATE itself, falsely labeling any conservative or Biblically-based group as a "hate group." SPLC gets lot s of funding from the left, who can use its false ratings for their own propaganda. And this present episode is an example.

Charge, be specific. What books do the Moms want "censored"?

…falsely labeling any conservative or Biblically-based group as a "hate group."

Theyre not a fine group because you say they are and they aren't a finer group because you dont like the SPLC. They dont represent anything but policing the thought and behavior of others. They produce nothing, they contribute nothing…and, apparently, they read nothing. Parents ignorantly stomping around to protect their children from books and ideas they have no familiarity with is hardly a group to be commended.

It's interesting that biblically based groups think they should be able to use their status to get involved in politics and not get labelled or criticized; that smacks of an abuse of the Free Exercise Clause.

More interestingly my biblically based group seems to be able to easily separate religion from politics and thus never gets targeted as a hate group.

SPLC gets lot s of funding from the left, who can use its false ratings for their own propaganda. And this present episode is an example.

It could be worse, they could get their funding from groups who feed their unwitting members Nazi quotes.

What books specifically do they want to censor?

SPLC is thoroughly discredited.

AND Trump, DeSantis, and Haley are scheduled to address the Moms. You may want to label all of them as part of a "hate group" but that group is the Republican party and represents half the country. Calling them a "hate group" does not make them so.

Doc, You seem to be espousing hate here against the Moms group.
Sorry to see you do this. I support the group.

What has the Moms for Liberty done to get this reaction?

Did you not see the links?

They have allied themselves with Qanon and the Proud Boys, among other right wing hate groups.

Charge, if feeling that not all books are appropriate at all ages or in school, constitutes censorship, that would include about every school librarian I ever knew. (They only seem to object when someone else wants a say.)

And you might save some of your ammunition for the publishers currently bowdlerizing everything in sight.

Moms for Liberty are a fine group…

Only if you support far right wing hate groups, are against teachers, support the Proud Boys, and want the government overthrown.

They are not the type of group anyone should be associated with and support. In short, they are against the United States.

See:

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Raynman, it isn't about whether a particular group should be allowed to hold or express their views. It is about whether a private institution should make their premises available to that group as a forum to express their views.

momsforliberty.org/about

You say censorship as if it is a bad thing. All things in moderation. Keeping porn off of TMP is censorship. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Having taxpayers get a say in what books are purchased by taxpayer supported libraries is not unreasonable, particularly if those books are intended for children.

This is the problem with America today, too many want only what they want and call others names rather than address the issues.

I would not have wanted my child's school to have books in their library that advocate for behaviors that are in opposition to my families values. And as an American we have a right to petition our government to do as we want them to do, after all the government is our servant, not the other way around.

Banning a book from a school or public library is not the same as preventing adults from obtaining and reading a particular book if they want to do so.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Doug WHAT? No, I support the Moms. What makes you think I hae them? I hate the SPLC as it has become.

Only if you support far right wing hate groups, are against teachers, support the Proud Boys, and want the government overthrown.

I support a number of groups that the extreme Left CALLS rw hate groups. We will not allow you to define us.

I do not want the government overthrown, I want it RESTORED to its limited powers. As opposed to the tyranny of the present regime.

I would think that even a private entity such as the museum would if seeking to tell the story of the American Revolution be open to about any legal point of view.

That said, in the years leading up to and including the actual AWI, tolerance of the views of the other side by either the Whigs or Loyalists were often minimal if at all. Very often mobs expressed their disapproval of the other side with violence both to property and people. Many of the framers were horrified by the actions of the mob and sought to create a government that would temper the excesses of temporary popular intemperance.

Careful, Doc, your true colours are showing.

The present regime was voted in, and at the end of its term, will accept being voted out, if that is the way the vote goes.

I am a neutral observer, who wonders where American Democracy went to.

I do not want the government overthrown, I want it RESTORED to its limited powers.

And you believe that right wing radicals want to do that? If you recall, the Constitution was written in order to establish a strong central government because the US didn't have one under the Articles of Confederation.

What is it that you want restored? The current crop of right wing radicals do not want anything 'restored' they want it run the way they want it and that way is to curb freedom in the US and destroy the US Constitution. And the right wing radicals are terrorists bent on destroying the United States.

+1 to doc mcb.

A certain political party has a long history of voter suppression and election corruption.
Look up who sounded and supported the KKK, LBJ and his senate race, and the Chicago Machine under the Daileys and Tammany Hall in NYC.

I am very conservative and I too wonder where American Democracy went to.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Mike, you say you don't want certain things in school or public libraries. The problem with a multicultural society is that there is another group out there who will object to the things that you want in school or public libraries. So do we delete everything that anyone objects to?

Do we delete everything that a substantial number of people object to? Do we go with majority rules, understanding what that really means is that it will be the most vocal portion of the majority that will be making the rules, and quite possibly a majority of people oppose those rules? And how would it go over if the majority shifted and suddenly approved items are banned while previously banned items are approved? Will those who now find themselves in the minority accept the change or will they start screaming "you can't indoctrinate my child"? Will they suddenly remember that tax dollars of the minority as well as the majority are being used to pay for everything in schools and public libraries, and insist that some of those dollars be spent on things they want, even though a majority opposes. If the locality leans one way and he state or Feds another will those in the minority locally play off one against the other? Also what happens when you have a group of people cocooned in their comfortable limited amount of information that are forced to deal with others exposed to different information? Welcome to the Anarchy.

A dose of "blue flu" coming up for all museum staff perhaps?

Dagwood, what "true colors" would those be?

I am a conservative Christian who usually votes Republican.

Bill, our principle is that parents have the primary say in how their children are raised. If public education cannot deal with that, then we need, say, publicly financed education but not government schools. Vouchers.

Kevin, as usual you only know half the story.

Kevin, is the central government free to do as it pleases? What balances its power? What checks are upon and within it?

Doc, Sorry I put your name in there by mistake. It was another name I wanted to list, but I will not mention him now. You have my apologies sir. I'm with you. I am a conservative Christian Minister. Love playing with toy soldiers but don't like the
direction our country is moving at the moment.

Yes Bill N that's how it works. We petition our government for what we want and majority rules.

Some will be disappointed and some will be happy.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Post by a formerly banned member has been removed, and his new account Locked.

One person has been Dawghoused for comments about the current election.

Some political comments have been snipped.

Doug, no problem.

Yes Bill N that's how it works. We petition our government for what we want and majority rules.

Some will be disappointed and some will be happy.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Oh? Are you the same Bunkermeister who wrote this?

We don't live in a democracy where the simple majority take away the rights of the minority. We live in a democratic republic were the inherent rights of the people are guaranteed by the Constitution.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

TMP link

If so, you appear to have had a change of heart concerning majority rule.

"Not just radical. A designated hate group."

Designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The SPLC is a left wing group that designates anyone that doesn't support their views as a 'hate group' and won't give that designation to anyone that does support their views. As an example they refused to designated BLM as a hate group despite the fact that the group called for the murder of police officers.

No one is calling for books to be banned. What they're calling for is the removal of inappropriate books from school libraries. These are books that when parents tried to read passages in school board meetings they were told to stop because the content is considered pornography and promotes pedophilia. Some were so bad they can't be read on television due to FCC rules, but they're in elementary school libraries.

Dn J, yes indeed.

"Are you saying that Hitler should be quoted if what he says is true? Or if the Communists do it also?"

Consider the quote and the group who put it up. I believe they put it up because they are saying the other side, the one putting books discussing things they don't want discussed with THEIR children, is trying to capture the future by 'capturing' their children.

+1 doc mcb and Doug MSC.

Another post by a formerly banned member has been removed, and his new account Locked.

How is ANY of this related to miniatures or wargaming?

Bill, you missed Doc's political comment about the "tyranny of the current regime" that led to the other snips.

The involvement of museums in political activities, regardless of the cause, is a matter of concern. Museums should primarily serve as spaces for education, preservation, and cultural appreciation, rather than becoming entangled in political agendas.

I strongly believe that museums should maintain neutrality and avoid engaging in political activities. When museums step into the realm of politics, it diminishes the integrity of the profession and undermines the broader purpose of museums as unbiased educational institutions.

While it's true that the museum in question may have competent and professional staff, it remains crucial for them to adhere to the principles of non-partisanship. Political meetings, rallies, and press conferences within the premises of a museum, regardless of their origin, compromise its impartiality and detract from its core mission.

To preserve the integrity and reputation of museums, it is essential that they remain apolitical. This ensures that visitors can trust in the authenticity and impartiality of the information and exhibits presented. By avoiding political entanglements, museums can continue to fulfill their vital role as unbiased sources of knowledge, preserving cultural heritage, and fostering public understanding.

All this in the City of Brotherly Love