"Early bird scam???" Topic

Been thinking of the Kenner early bird Christmas set.

Was it a scam?

Were they really stuck for stock?

I suspect it was planned.

If it was coming out for Star Wars, a film people were unsure about, with a new scale action figure line to be sold in a new way, I seriously doubt anyone would want to be putting a lot of money on the line.

Hmm…

What if you could test the market without shipping a single figure? Heck, they don't even need to be made yet!

Hense some cheap card and a (probably) bogus sob story to go with it.

That's my suspicion.

Maybe they just didn't make a lot and ran out? But even so, why?

Maybe they were just taken by complete surprise by orders and ran out? Just before Christmas? No, they would have delayed some stock to spread it around and enhance the consumer interest and demand.

Stuff like that.

Backstory?

My exact dates may be wonky.

Back in 1977, "Star Wars," period "yibbida yibbida, that's all folks," came out.

About then Kenner Toys had designed a range of 12? Action figures to go with it.

But "something" happened and the Toys were not going to be available for Christmas.

So Kenner instead releases a cardboard stand up thing with a coupon to send in. When the Toys were available the people who sent in a coupon would receive theirs in the post? before you could buy them in stores?.

They cane out eventually, sold well, so on…

Buy what a screw up. If it was one.

I think they just sent out the coupons
to stores because it was far cheaper than sending figures for a film that would probably flop.

Also, as Lucas had secured the merchandise rights, including Toys, Kenner may have felt Fox? Did not have much faith in the film. If they did know about the toy rights, it may have been around the set, where the toy designers may have been.

Think of it like a Kickstarter. You sign up vaced upon some fancy pictures , and they deliver. So, almost like a Kickstarter then.

I had a cardboard Jawa Landcrawler.

You mean I was supposed to get a real one?!

1977?

46 years ago. I suspect most people are over it by now.

I had to google it: link

Sounds like they just didn't realise what a smash hit they had on their hands and didn't want to miss out on the Christmas market…after all, surely this Star Wars thing would have blown over in a year….

Thereis a documentary about it. Kenner produced toys in record time and the right were purchased for almost nothing. Kenner just had to release a certain amount per year or similar. They didn't realize how HUGE the movie would be.

Thanks

John

"You mean I was supposed to get a real one?!"

No, that was an actual set, I believe.

I'm talking about the first wave of figures, Luke, Leia, so on.

"I suspect most people are over it by now."

Like most things Star Wars, I suppose?

"blown over in a year…."

I believe that was the expectation.

I suspect the Toys are the reason for its level of success. Not a bad film, but the Toys kept it in the public mind.

I suspect the Toys are the reason for its level of success.

I don't think that's true, since the toys were only a portion of the merchandising – which encompassed books, magazines, collector cards, lunch boxes, bedding, towels, T-shirts, shorts, underwear, socks, model kits, mass market boardgames, soap, bubble bath,….basically anything possible to slap an image or a logo on…

…I think it had more to do with there not having been a film of this type for a long long time, and it really caught the public's imagination. There were people going to see it every day for weeks, sometimes more than once a day. That's quite unusual and at that point the merchandising industry wasn't really geared up for the runaway success of the film.

"basically anything possible to slap an image or a logo on…"

No.

In fact they shut down one product at least, that was a Star Wars sticker on a toy gun.

That type of thing was strictly forbidden, Star Wars logos slapped on things, at least as Toys.

They had to be in universe, not simply branded.

"it really caught the public's imagination."

Maybe.

However, to my knowledge, the merchandise braught in a lot of money between Star wars and Empire. I suspect that helped fund the later.

And without a stream of toys in between it simply would not have been so well known/remembered/cared about come Empire.

I suspect a lot of the younger interest in the sequels would have been from the Toys. And their parents through osmosis.

Seeing the Toys in stores would help to keep the brand top of mind.

Without the Toys, and to whatever degree other merchandise, it may be other films that got the attention.

Well, you can believe that if you want to.

Doesn't tie in with my recollection of the films and the general buzz about them. Even amongst people who would have never bought a star wars tie-in toy.

You think only a "maybe" that Star Wars caught the public imagination?

Well, you can believe that too if you like. I'm not convinced that people went to see the film dozens of times because of the toys.

"Well, you can believe that if you want to."

I don't require anyone's approval.

"I'm not convinced that people went to see the film dozens of times because of the toys."

I never said they did.

Sometimes reading helps.

I was talking about the sequels.

The Toys weren't out until long after the first film came out.

Again, reading helps, both my posts and the handy link given.

Oh, I read it. I just don't believe it.

Maybe it was different in Australia…maybe Australians only go to see films they've bought tie-in toys for. Maybe that explains it.

Well, it seems people in "other countries" also only see films they bought tie in Toys for.

At least according to my poor research.

link

That's one interesting article.

Wikipedia more precisely suggests Toy sales directly financed Empire.

So if George Lucas made money from the star wars Toys, and he personally financed Empire, then that does sound correct.

Basically with out Toys sales Empire would not have happened. Although exactly how much I am yet to see. But he would not have made much from the film itself.

A puff piece for the new Star Wars film by George Lucas where he says his films have substance (and toys) and other people's films are shallow and only have toys?

Powerful and convincing evidence from a wholly independent source. How could I ever argue against that compelling narrative?

Wikipedia actually states that Toy sales only partly financed Empire.

Lucas put up $12 USDmillion of his own money and had an $8 USDmillion bank loan from Bank of America financed on future profits.

When costs increased he got additional funds from Black Falcon, which was a subsidiary company of Lucas Films which had been set up to merchandise Star Wars on items such as bed sheets, children's books, comic strips, and other items. Since this was a subsidiary of Lucas Films he was effectively borrowing from himself against anticipated profits from soap, breakfast cereal, bed sheets, etc.

The action figures toys were licensed merchandise, so Lucas was getting money from these as well of course. But it was in no way the prime source of funding for Empire.

And here's where you tell me that I'm wrong, and that the money Lucas made from one of the most successful films of all time (at that date) didn't make up any of the $12 USDmillion he personally invested in Empire. And that it all, every cent, came from Action Figures.

And then there's the bit where I just laugh.

I doubt the exact amounts will surface here, but to get money he would have had to show he had a percentage already, which the Toys would have contributed to.

So, no Toys, no percentage to justify the size of the loan. Then Empire would have had a smaller budget or not be made at all.

If anyone has some receipt or other paperwork from the time, I'm happy to have a look.

Some people seem to only be commenting for reasons I won't mention. If such behavior continues, don't be surprised if I stop replying to such posts, both here and elsewhere.

"For every dollar sold in the new toy line,Kenner was only required to pay to Lucas and Fox a nickel!"

link

Kenner profits on Star Wars toys between 1978 & 1979
$100 USD million.

A New Hope cost to make
$11 USD million
Return
$775.8 USD million
Profit
$764.8 USD million

A Bank manager would have to be a ing idiot not to see potential profit by being a Jr partner on such a venture.

Let's look at empire

Initial budget
Lucas
$12 USD million
Bank
$8 USD million
Equaling
$18 USD million
Empire gos in to PRODUCTION
and runs over budget
Lucas stumps up more cash from his profit's from Kenner
$12.5 USD million
Grand total
$30.5 USD million
1980 return
$401.5 USD million
Profit
$371 USD million

Conclusion
Kenner toys had nothing to do with the bank putting their cash into the project and so empire would have been made ;however Lucas had to use his profit form kenner toys to get the film finished.
The numbers speak for themselves.

Exactly – Lucas used his own money to finish the film so that he wouldn't have to let go of more of the profits by bringing in another investor who would be looking to make a good return on their money. But one way or another that film was going to get finished.

Good research (I'm assuming).

So in the end Toy sales did indeed complete the film, in this universe, if not another.

So my next "myth" to be "debunked":

Would Empire have had succeeded without the Kenner Toy line?

We know it was finished using funds from the toy line, so for a start, it would not have been the same film if otherwise finished. But would it still have attracted the same audience?

With younger kids, I think not. Kids would have been buying the Toys before Empire, without even having had seen Star Wars. Possibly older kids, or those who did see it may have gotten other kids into it in the school yard… By way of the action figures.

I had similar experiences with Transformers and ninja turtles. Even with seeing the shows, it was definitely the action figures braught to school for lunch time Play that sealed the deal. I didn't even have figures initially, buy ended up buying/getting some.

So action figures sell action figures and definitely help advertise a show or movie.

Sorry I just spotted a typo
The amount Lucas added to get empire finished was
$10.5 USD million
Not
$12.5 USD million
Oops my bad!!

"Would Empire have had succeeded without the Kenner Toy line?"

Most defiantly yes!
You simply can not over state the impact a new hope had on the kid's in 77.
Or in my case 78 living in the UK.

I was 6 in 78 and life in the UK was horrible, we had the winter of discontent half the country was on strike we had mountain's of rubbish in the streets,the dead weren't getting buried,we had regular power cuts,fule and food shortages the provisional IRA were leaving bombs everywhere,nuclear Holocaust at any moment was a real fear,"no black's no dogs no Irish" sine's outside pubs and boarding houses.

My family lived on a farm in 76 my dad was a farmhand and it was made clear that if we stayed the police would beat him up and keep beating him up till he left cos he was Irish so we moved to London.

I remember the first time I saw Star wars in the cinema.
My grannie would take me to the cinema as a treat.
So one day she asked me if wanted to go.
Of course i did.
She got the newspaper out and started reading out the listings and their was nothing,I remember my disappointment as film after film was read out till we got to a film called Star wars.
"That's a funny name what's it about?" I asked
"I don't know she said shall we give it a go?"
I thought about it, it had war in the title and it was that or nothing!
"Yeah alright"

So we're In the cinema the sitting in the dark and that opening salvo of horns open up,bear in mind I'd never heard Dolby surround sound before! It made me feel small in it's epicness.
Then the scrolling writing came up!
"Oh no writing"
"Don't worry Darling I'll read it to you"
And so my grannie quitly read it out.
It left me confused who is princess laia what's a death star it sound's a bit Scarry!
And we open with a space battle between 2 of the coolist looking space ships I'd ever seen the Dolby sound made want to take cover as the laser bolts seemed pass over my head, and then were inside one off the ships and their's something about the stark whiteness that made it all look so futuristc.
And we see the rebels getting ready for something!
I feel a little disappointed as they look a bit rubbish.
Then their's that hatch and then it blows up and out of the smoke space Nazi's and laser bolts and sounds and I'm shouting YES! WOW! OH MY GOD! and then Vader and I'm tacking cover again! And so on and so on.

We did that another 12 times and my grannie sat by my side
We did empire 8 times.
I'd never seen or heard anything like it!
And the worst thing about it was that it would be over and I'd have once again have to deal with that horrible world that I wanted nothing to do with.

Well, the toy line definitely had an impact. To say it didn't is folly. That would mean the toy line had exactly 0, not even -, impact, and that clearly was not the case.

So yes, without the toy line (as could be said of other things also, but I'm sure Toys held more appeal to most than bed sheets) Empire would not have been as successful.

By how much? We may never know for sure, but we can estimate.

Let's say half the kids who saw Star Wars, 5-10 years old, get approx average 10 figures (or equivalent vehicles) each. That's an awful lot of playground exposure.

Without that many younger kidspl particularly may have had little Star Wars knowledge before Empire.

I know there were cartoons and such, but if they weren't on in your area or you just missed them, too bad.

They Toys would have hung on Toy shelves up until Empire?? I know the range kept getting added to. So that's probably the best advertising the kids got in one go. Books, cartoons, maybe, but Toys are what kids want.

I never had Transformers or turtles videos unless I taped them, but I eventually got the Toys.

I'm not alone.

Sure If you say so!

I just did.

20thmanie was around at the time I was around at the time,you quite obviously were not otherwise you would not be talking such utter nonsense!

But hay if you want to believe that crap than "sure if you say so"

Just going on what I read, not failing memories.

My memory is just fine.
I don't know what utter tosh your reading but if its in your own handwriting it doesn't count.
Oh I've decided to stifle you,first time for everything!
Goodbye

I don't know why you guys argue with h man. he is a self-confirmed genius on all things pop-culture, modeling, movies, etc etc. He's a troll, pure and simple.

Sticks and stones.

I left name calling and pretending to ignore people in the school yard.

If people don't like what I write under my own topic, then why keep coming back?

I endeavour to be general, not call people names, be rude or disrespectful. Trust me, sometimes it ain't easy. That's why it's important.

Oh well, while I'm blabbering on

I checked stifle.

It seems you only stifle yourself. I can still see what people say and others what I say. So it only makes it confusing for the stifler. Also it makes them appear rude if they don't relpy to a comment because they, in reality, can't see it.

Also, I'm not sure how topics work?

Will a stifler still see an op?

Now that could get very confusing for them. Especially if someone uses a cryptic title.

Not to mention the flow of messages with a bunch missing.

No skin of my nose, the less BS the better. I prefer constructive comments. And I appreciate those who have commented in a civil manner.

I just thought it worth investigation as I wasn't too sure about how it worked.