"1809 Saxon Metzsch d'Egidy Shutzen Battalion Facings" Topic

Any Saxon experts around? Starting on Wagram era Saxons. Quite easy with scanned books of plates of the era. The only thing tripping me up is the said two battalions of Schutzen as listed in Armies on the Danube by Bowden (as an aside for any future searchers, this is one area the Napolun OOB is incorrect, assuming Bowden is, and I am going to)

From what I gather pre 1808 these were not organized but ad hoc, and would be mixed facings. In 1808 Bernadotte for lack of true Saxon light infantry, organized two battalions, and began training them in drum and horn drills as true light units. After the 1810 reorg, it changed and added even more, but my interest stops there.

Question is looking through all the books and plates I can find, I cannot find a single mention of their facings. Wording of reference to them leads me to believe they would have their own facing colors. Perry painted some in the plum/red color, but I can find no reference as to where they are getting this color or which one it is trying to represent.

Thanks in advance for any advice or help.

From the Rawkins book on the Saxon army which is in accordance with Bowden:

From 1802 the Schützen-Abteilung from each Feld-Regiment were officially organised into two independent battalions in wartime in a similar manner to the grenadiers, however, this innovation had not been actioned in time for the 1806 and 1807 campaigns. On 18 May 1808 new amended orders were issued for the organisation of the Schützen-Feld-Bataillonen and each infantry company was now to provide one Korporal and ten Schützen to the Schützen-Feld-Bataillonen. In June 1809 under Bernadotte's guidance the two battalions were re-organised as the 1.Leichte-Bataillon von Metzsch and the 2.Leichte-Bataillon von Egidy and any surplus men from the re-organisation of the line infantry battalions were transferred to the light infantry battalions bringing the strength up to four companies each of 175 men. Each Schützen-Feld-Bataillon consisted of four companies with a small battalion staff and an official system of drum and horn signals was introduced for all skirmishers. The depots of the Feld-Regimenter still in Saxony were authorised to create new Schützen-Abteilung of one officer and 40 men which were detached throughout 1809 to various garrisons and were known collectively as the ‘Schützen der Sächsischen-Infanterie' as part of the Mobile Defense Force charged with the defence of the Saxon homelands and several saw service in skirmishes with the Braunsweig ‘Schwarze-Schar' in July 1809.

Rawkins on the uniforms:

UNIFORMS SCHÜTZEN-ABTEILUNG 1793-1809 Prior to the creation of the Leichte-Infanterie-Bataillonen in 1810, the Schützen-Abteilung which comprised the Schützen-Feld-Bataillonen and the Leichte-Bataillon, wore the same uniform as their parent regiment the only distinguishing feature being the green plume worn on the bicorn hat. The Schützen-Feld-Bataillonen were formed as required at the commencement of a campaign and stood down when no longer needed and the men returned to their regiments and no records have been found of the regimental component parts of the battalions although logically these would probably have been drawn from the regiments of the same division.

Shadoe01 @ thanks for this I'm planning on building Johann von Thielmann's command in Saxony to battle my Brunswickers and Bohemian landwehr I have an OOB but I couldn't see any obvious light troops in the Saxon forces now I can add a few
Schützen quite historically 🙂

Thanks Shadoe

It sounds like since there are no records, the answer for me then, is to simply choose one of the existing regiments in each of those divisions and go with it's facing. I will just choose which I think looks best then, and consider it a rare and okay case that I do it. :)

I really need to just make it a side project to get all these Rawkins books. I understand both they and the CDs are hard to find, but every time the name comes up I am satisfied and have an answer.

@Prince Rupert and DD,

I am so very fortunate to have all of the Rawkins publications (in epub format). While no large body of work is ever with errors, Rawkin's contribution to the subject has been enormous. RIP WJ Rawkins; you are sorely missed.

Wonder if I should designate the epubs to someone in my will. It would be a shame to have them disappear…electronically speaking.

I certainly would at least back them up! I managed to find a hard copy of the Saxon book just today. Excited to see one of these myself.

While I have your attention, one other thing not worth it's own post that I am probably just being paranoid about, lacking confidence (I have recently been a good bit of google translate's bandwidth I imagine…).

I am almost certain this is artillery train drivers.
link

Is this supply train drivers and they have their own uniform? Google translate does not like either of these words.
link

@DevoutDavout,

I do have the in several locations – the cloud, home hard drive and CD.

The Saxon artillery train had green coats until 1810 at which time they were issued with sky-blue coats but they also switched from bicornes to shakos.

The supply train (Proviant-Führknecht) had mid-blue coats before and after 1810 but also switched from bicornes to shakos in 1810.

url=https://flic.kr/p/2oH5RTo]

This is what John Gill has to say in his chapter on the Saxons in 'With Eagles to Glory':

"On the 18th [of May], the four Abteilungen, each augmented by 40 additional soldiers, were formed into two Schutzen battalions under tough but popular commanders: the serious Hauptmann Albrecht von Metzsch commanding the 1st and Major Christoph von Edigy, 'a rugged warrior', taking the 2nd. Internally, each battalion was composed of four companies for a total of about 540-560 officers and men, the 2nd battalion being slightly smaller than the 1st. Still carried on the rolls of their parent regiments as 'detached', the men of these two battalions were united by their green plumes but otherwise lacked a common uniform, leading Napoleon to ask if they were a unit of recruits or stragglers when he reviewed them for the first time."

The notes gives more detail:

"Company strength was only about 138 men in the 1st Battalion when it was formed in May. The 2nd Battalion was somewhat weaker as it drew Schutzen from the eleven infantry battalions of the 2nd Division where the 1st Battalion drew its members from the twelve battalions of the 1st. Both Schutzen battalions were considerably strengthened during the June reorganisation"

Hope that helps

That helps very much, thank you. Straight up, no common uniform. Just the green plumes.

Thank you shadoe as well.

also the Saxon horse artillery created by Bernadotte for his corps did continue to wear the foot artillery uniform.

Ah, thanks vW!

@shade01

Hello! I also own some of the books by Mr Rawkins. Seeing as there is no way to recover any of the old books by the late author. Would you be open to trading for Italy, Austria,Hesse and Hannover?
I own the ones on Naples,Saxony, Kleves and the 2 Rheinbund ones.
If you would be intrested or if you have any information on how to get the other books contact on discord:
Sergentul#6990

(As you can see I am very desperate)

Please don't ask for a reference but I have this unit and it's one company dark blue, 2 companies yellow and one company light green. I suspect I may have been told this on this site so a search might find you the post and thus the source.