"GW in schools?" Topic

I actually bothered to go into a GW store.

Staff not keen to discuss the company.

"We just help people paint miniatures"

Or words to that effect.

Probably thought I was a plant sent to check on them for disent. Something spiny and hard to eradicate, if I have my quote right.

I dropped a bill and told the staffer he was welcome to litter the bag with propaganda, as they had a few stacks of flyers on the counter.

He put one slip of card in the bag…

Long story short (too late), I see it's to be given to my teacher (I guess uni lecturer? as I clearly ain't no kid (not at uni either). Maybe he though me a teacher, due to my interest in their company mindset?

So apparently you give it to your teacher and they contact GW for some reason.

It has a picture of kids painting minis at desks in class.

Cool!

At first glance.

Remember GW is not a hobby company. They simply sell rattly boxes. What on earth could they possibly offer children other than future debt?

Painting like in art class? Not really.

Buy this expense (I dropped 100, so I know what I'm talking about) paint, then apply this expense paint.

I wonder how much mixing is shown? Why mix a colour when you can buy it.

I really can't see any value in this (from knowing zip about it of course).

Perhaps GW will explain the history of wargaming and GW, like how they used to sell D&D games or how Mantic and Warlord games were off shoots, or the work the Perry's do for their own company?

No, I can't see that occurring.

Perhaps they cover model kits and painting in general, like hot rods and fighter jets?

No.

Maybe they are shown how to build terrain, you know, like properly. Making a tower from a Pringles tube, or margarine tub bunkers, like normal people?

No, I think they have a rattly box with a big price sticker that the kids can't afford for that.

Maybe its world history like WW2 or Napoleonic wars?

No, they wouldn't have a game to sell you.

Maybe its math, with all the die rolling and numbers?

Dude, this ain't the 80s.

Does anyone know about this notascam? Have any one gone through it either as a student or teacher or even parent?

I'm keen as mustard to find out what educational value could possibly be found here.

It must be economics. This box plus this box, man their ain't enough lawns in your neighbourhood.

I guess they will have strips of wee paint pots. Not going to give kids pots of paint.

As for any games, I'd assume watered down affairs like the first few issues of the partworks.

Id love to be a fly on the wall. The boys just wanting to play Toy soldiers. The girls who don't want anything to do with "that ugly thing." So on.

link

Found it.

I'm guessing the pack is one per class, not one per kid though.

Games Workshop Schools Programme UK

Jinx.

Or is that snap!

Remember GW is not a hobby company. They simply sell rattly boxes.

That's just not true – they sell paints, brushes, cutting mats, clippers, pliers….and they make a big thing of the crafting side of the hobby.

If you check out their partworks you'll see plenty of diversity in their spectrum of players. Well, maybe not that many people over 40. Because it's a hip hobby for happening young (and young at heart) people.

The partworks each provide a few thousand pounds of GW product over their runs – 90 issues at £9.00 GBP an issue and with most of the figures at 25%-40% off store price. So not really all that limited.

Perhaps GW will explain the history of wargaming and GW, like how they used to sell D&D games or how Mantic and Warlord games were off shoots, or the work the Perry's do for their own company?

In the same way as a cell phone company explains the history of telephones…and tries to persuade you to get an old school landline?

The GW of the 1970s is gone – it has been gone for decades – and it is never coming back. Why would a teenager of today even care what the shopping experience of a teenager was forty years ago? How would that even affect them? If they really wanted to know they'd buy Sir Ian Livingstone's book.

Staff not keen to discuss the company.

Well, if I judge from your postings here to get an idea of the kind of question you might ask about GW in-store then no, it's not a surprise that they don't want to talk about their employer with you. It's fair to say, I think, that you are a little beyond "not a fan".

I'm not actually a huge fan myself, but there's stuff I like and I buy that and I ignore the rest.

Jinx.

Or is that snap!

Ups, sorry, just missed the link.

they don't want to talk about their employer with you. It's fair to say, I think, that you are a little beyond "not a fan".

My store is more than happy to discuss things like a Blood Bowl league or interest in Aeronautica Imperialis. The manager really has no ability to adjust supply chain issues and scalper problems.

Not infrequently some wretch comes in talking about prices, nerfing, etc. I can't help but wonder: If you hate it so much, why are you here buying anything?

"If you hate it so much, why are you here buying anything?"

Answered your own question.

"Ups, sorry, just missed the link."

No drama, I was editing it in.

"That's just not true"

Yes it is. They only sell the paints and tools as it's cheaper than having pre assembled and painted models.

Last I checked they don't even sell sand or flock. Well, sand is usually easy enough to come by.

There is no hobby there. Just buy boxes, assemble, usually one way, and paint, usually as directed.

The entire GW set up is formulaic and sterile.

Hopefully TOW will inject a bit if freedom back into GWs wee PART of the WARGAMING hobby. Should be italics.

"If you check out their partworks you'll see plenty of diversity in their spectrum of players."

I did notice a young girl playing nurgle, and thought, yeah there's no way. Those shots are very staged.

"hip hobby"

Perhaps we can compromise on "hip pocket hobby."

"old school"

I wouldn't call those 4 companies old school. Less TSR they are younger and "hipper" than GW.

"it is never coming back."

TOW…

"Why would a teenager of today even care what the shopping experience of a teenager was forty years ago?"

Perhaps because there was an experience, beyond point and Click. And that's only 20 years ago. You can't even Play a proper game on the tables any more, the painting table is tiny and you can't even see what you buying for the cardboard boxes. I'm pretty sure many of them are probably empty. Its just a shameless product push. They used to sell product too, sure, but there was an actual hobby there too, outside of buying. I really hope TOW can affect change.

"It's fair to say, I think, that you are a little beyond "not a fan"."

That sounds unfair to me. Notice I'm not passing comment on anyone in particular.

There has to be a catch somewhere. I'm sure the bundle comes with release forms which need to be signed because you have two weeks to supply them with photos they will use for marketing. A day longer than two weeks and the teacher gets nailed with an outrageous bill for materials.

All this is covered in the fine print requiring a microscope to see I'm sure.

Lol !

If you can read your own postings and find the words of a big GW fan and if you truly think that a company that turns over almost £400.00 GBPMillion per year is only a small player in the hobby then…

…I guess the only reasonable response is….

…"yeah, whatever", and a shrug.

The UK schools stuff is all free and above board.

"There has to be a catch somewhere"

"The UK schools stuff is all free and above board."

Thanks for the constructive responses.

A definite contrast though.

I'm sure it all legal. Hopefully.

But ethical? Educational? Not so sure. Its just advertising for a big company. Not just GW, i remember frutopia drink coming to school, probably Coke owned?

But the kids and education are the last thing on their mind.

I probably wouldn't have such an issue if Warlord did it. At least they could learn some actual world history along the way and can have direct ties to non fiction books in the library. Thatcmay spark an interest for future essays and such.

But Space marines and not orcs? No.

Maybe if they used LOTR figures. At least thats a direct link to classic literature. At a minimum, as far as GW, that would at least be better.

And…

GW is only a very small player in the hobby. They don't cover very much at all and its all their own IP, or LOTR that looks set to be dropped soon.

They have built themselves a base that is a fad.

History will never go out of fashion. But GW stuff can, and has. They dropped their flagship game. Why do that if its so popular? They call their stores Warhammer, which makes fans sound less educated, "I'm going down to… WARHAMMER!"

They have to pretend to have their own hobby, as it's so distant from an actual hobby.

I go into other stores and mention something about this or that, often staff agree.

Try it in GW and they go quiet and don't want to talk about it.

How on earth is that corporate attitude appropriate for kids in school?

My nephew is currently part of the GW schools program at his school and I can say that the one thing it has taught the kids is how to pinch each others painted minis. He complains bitterly about painting his marine only to come back next session and some other toe-rag has purloined it.

That is one issue I overlooked.

Thank you.

Some kids are taught to value other people's property, others are not.

I had a similar issue at school, but while playing, the kids left the figure thank goodness.

Maybe, thats something they can learn? But that's more about the teacher than GW.

"The girls who don't want anything to do with "that ugly thing." "

Girls: "Oh! Look at the cute lil mice!" (They're Skaven… ;-)

Might have to worry if they start dressing & acting like Escher gangers, though… ;-)

Or daemonettes.

Which is another point.

Moan moan moan

Yeah – look at evil GW giving away boxes of product to any school that wants to set up a club.

It's the very definition of evil isn't it? Giving children something to do outside the classroom, the only downside of which could be a lifetime of buying games and filling their homes with models and terrain and books and paints and….

….maybe it is quite evil

There are (supposed) to be laws about advertising to children.

I wonder how GW is getting around them?

Probably parental consent forms, I guess.

It is just shameless advertising.

I wonder if they also offer it to adged care homes?

I could be wrong, but I'd assume not, as GW are looking for longer term customers. On the other hand older people have more money.

But GW wouldn't discriminate based on age, would they?

Nonsense posts aside, this is an interesting topic.

I think it's called "marketing" & any business wishing to turn a profit does it.

I'm really not sure what the OP is actually complaining about. Is it that you just don't like GW? Fair enough. I don't like baked beans.

I'm commenting on the appropriateness of large companies targeting minors at school.

If GW donated some money to a school program, that's one thing, but getting its products into classrooms is something else.

I find it borderline creepy, trying to get to the kids before their competition, in a place they should be being protected from such marketing.

Using children as a vehicle to deliver messages to make first contact with teachers, so as to gain access to a classroom of kids, to sell them product. Certainty not ethical.

The products are not even school related. Maybe if they sold stationery? But they don't.

I do wonder what exactly is sent out to parents?

Hopefully someone may know?

I was almost involved in a programme going to schools to use miniatures to teach history. So I'm sure there are definitely more appropriate (for school) alternatives out there.

Interesting viewpoint. Can't say I share it.

There are (supposed) to be laws about advertising to children.

I'm no lawyer, but I doubt there is a law against advertising toys to children. Like footballs, cricket bats, and GW figures.

I'm commenting on the appropriateness of large companies targeting minors at school.

You mean like selling child-sized sports kits emblazoned with the team's emblem and the name of their sponsors – like alcoholic drinks manufacturers, particular brands of sport shoes, etc.

I suppose that GW's competitor can do the same thing to even it all up.

Airfix/Hornby have in the past done very similar things to promote the hobby of plastic modelling.

Sign up for it or don't. How is this a bad thing?

I'm not a fantasy/sci-fi gamer but I still can't see how historical gaming is morally superior, which I *think* is one of the OP's arguments ("more appropriate").

Indeed, you could make the point that "make believe" is less harmful than a genre that suggests real horrors of war.

I don't like baked beans.

What?

The food of the Gods!

" I doubt there is a law against advertising toys to children."

I'm no lawyer either, but even I know there are laws about it.

The US laws about television Toy advertising of the 80s are particularly interesting. And are the reason for such things as the Transformers comics, as you couldn't make a cartoon to advertise a toy line, but you could a comic book. Aren't loop holes fun.

"alcoholic drinks"

Exactly.

"GW's competitor can do the same thing to even it all up"

What a wonderful idea.

Actually if they set up a programme for wargaming in general, with multiple companies and interested parties taking part, that would be better. However, that would also mean GW doing something to benefit children, not just shareholders.

"Airfix/Hornby"

Good information.

Not a surprise.

"Sign up for it or don't. How is this a bad thing?"

Please read my posts above.

"how historical gaming is morally superior"

In education, not necessarily level of violence.

Compare the example kindly given above.

Airfix Vs GW. In subject alone kids will learn more useful things with models of real planes and cars, not with just one company's made up stuff.

Its not rocket science.

As for the construction and painting they are similar enough, although Perry's or Warlord would be more so, and they are also games, if a more direct comparison is needed.

Actually the sports equipment is a good point.

Most kids wouldn't be worried about the brand while playing. Only maybe when it's new stuff everyone wants to use (been there).

Also Sherrin and Wilson, so on, don't own any games played, to my knowledge.

A kid opening a GW box to use GW instructions to paint a GW miniature with GW tools and GW paints to play a GW game…

Note the contrast.

NO! Not that contrast! Struth…

I agree about the branding on some products, but although the intent may be similar (kids Brand recognition) the results ar very different.

Most kids probably don't know what equipment they are using, especially once labels wear off.

You can't play AOS without GW IP, Sigmar, Urruwhatsits, a,a,achhoooo, I mean, Aelfs.

With the cartoons, it was the fact you had to show the Toy in the ad that was the problem. Hard to do in a cartoon.

Also, at least in Oz, there are different laws around Toys as opposed to miniatures for games. So that may also be why GW can get them in schools.

Eg. Toys can't contain lead, but minis can.

Baked beans are like GW products – an acquired taste.

Not my taste but despite the vehement protestations of the OP, I can't see why a few boxes of free baked beans or a few boxes of free GW products delivered to a school would hurt anyone.

Also rather than speculate as to the advertising code of conduct for children in Australia, why not just read it?

link

Apart from the stricture against sexualisation (don't include those Slaaanish!), nothing seems to apply to this case.

Interesting.

However, its not that simple.

Go dig up something on school policies and get back to us.

Just remember, just because it's written in law, does not make it right. Hense changing laws. I suspect that paper would have looked very different a few decades ago.

It does mention something about not demeaning based on race, age so on. Welcome to Warhammer! Not too many orcs in the imperial guard. Rattlings and ogrons look different, so have to have their own units. Teaches segregation and intolerance. Inquisition seem to hate everyone, so I guess that's meant to be good. And war seems to be used to solve all the problems. That's some good stuff for the kids to learn.

But much more constructive, thanks.

I don't think we'll find a law being broken, GW have too many lawyers for that. Them again, maybe, who knows.

Its probably more about going to the school bodies and getting public opinion. Then they may decide it inappropriate, and call a halt to it.

It really depends how it works with teachers planning lessons and such, as the flyers are directed toward them. It doesn't say, take this to your principal. So, there's a chance some of this may be going on under the radar. Though I suspect GW may make contact with the higher ups?

I don't think it would be hard to find parents who disagree with such direct marketing.

But I think the fact it's set up on GWs side as a case by case thing that a student then teacher initiate, it would be hard to police.

It could also be said that GW isn't actively going after schools, as they have set it up to look like the teachers are coming to them. How much GW push the flyers on kids, who knows.

Some problems to change anything.
You would have to,

A change laws

B get schools to reject the offers

C get GW to stop

A is difficult, B maybe, C good luck.

Bringing it up with media or groups and organisations could help drive public interest.

Nothing is impossible.

Not too many orcs in the imperial guard. Rattlings and ogrons look different, so have to have their own units. Teaches segregation and intolerance. Inquisition seem to hate everyone, so I guess that's meant to be good.

Things seem to be changing quite rapidly in this thread.

It seemed to start off as a typical anti-GW rant.

Then it morphed into a defence of the children from advertising of all kinds.

And now….are you saying GW are bad because they are not Woke enough? Although they'd probably argue that a lot of their stuff is ironic, and the Empire for all its trappings of semi-fascist iconography and religious purity are not actually the heroes. The clue being the semi-fascist trappings.

And war seems to be used to solve all the problems. That's some good stuff for the kids to learn.

Perhaps I'm wrong (), but are you now saying that wargaming is an unsuitable hobby for children – and that it is morally indefensible more generally?

GW is only a very small player in the hobby.

I'm commenting on the appropriateness of large companies targeting minors at school.

GW seems to be exhibiting particle-wave duality – they are both a small company and also at the same time a large company.

It really depends how it works with teachers planning lessons and such,

There are no lesson plans involved – this would be what we usually call an After school (or possibly lunch break) activity. GW are not on the syllabus, although I expect most teachers of English would not be completely heartbroken to see a pupil wading through one of the Black Library enormous tomes of fiction. They might prefer Jane Austen, but hey, at least they are reading something.

"Go dig up something on school policies and get back to us."

Hardly necessary. I've been a teacher in state & now with Cath. Ed. for 47+ years now. As 20th Maine remarks, an 'After School activity" – if allowed.

I know my current, pacifist, employer (elite Catholic boys' school) would not countenance anything smacking of war but this probable ban clearly would not be because of GW, advertising or your creaky & frankly desperate point about Wokeness.

And you would find parents who'd object. And parents who'd approve. And the vast majority wouldn't care beyond the fact their children would have another choice of school clubs & pastimes to go with our Model UN, debating, the Technology Club, Science Club,Chess club, environmental group, and the vast number of sporting activities from Rugby to Rugby (who do other sports, too) offered.

So perhaps time to to put this "stretch" of a topic to bed? You hate GW for whatever reason. Your prerogative.

"Then it morphed into a defence of the children from advertising of all kinds."

You made that up.

"GW are bad because they are not Woke enough"

I just pointed out the closest point i could see on the paper presented. If a better example is required, provide a better paper.

"are you now saying that wargaming is an unsuitable hobby for children – and that it is morally indefensible more generally?"

As if I need to say it, but of course not. But there is a stark difference between the real world and a grim dark future "in which there is only war."

"they are both a small company and also at the same time a large company."

I used the term "player" for a reason. Coca-Cola is a big company, but a small player in drinks overall.

"There are no lesson plans involved"

Maybe, but if it's still on school grounds it would need approval, I'd assume.

"I've been a teacher"

Means nothing. Link please.

"desperate point about Wokeness."

I was commenting on the link you provided. Don't like it? Neither do I. Provide a better link.

"And the vast majority wouldn't care"

Nail, head.

" put this "stretch" of a topic to bed"

Good to see teachers still care about children.

"You hate GW for whatever reason."

Personal attacks don't fly here.

I've never said I hate GW. Heck, I start the topic paying them money.

It is possible to see errors in things without hating them. Its good to try to fix those errors, in fact it suggests you care enough to try.

GW is not a hobby company. They simply sell rattly boxes.

The entire GW set up is formulaic and sterile.

They have built themselves a base that is a fad.

They have to pretend to have their own hobby, as it's so distant from an actual hobby.

This is praise of GW? Are you sure you understand the difference between negatively criticising and praising?

"Then it morphed into a defence of the children from advertising of all kinds."

You made that up.

I most assuredly did not:

There are (supposed) to be laws about advertising to children.

I wonder how GW is getting around them?

But ethical? Educational? Not so sure. Its just advertising for a big company.

"Good to see teachers still care about children."

Personal attacks don't fly here.

"This is praise of GW?"

No.

But there is a difference between finding faults with something and hating it.

"Are you sure you understand the difference between negatively criticising and praising?"

Yes.

"I most assuredly did not:"

That is incorrect.

Emphasis on "advertising of all kinds."

I'm only talking about some advertising to children, not all.

So, yes the statement was indeed O'Neal made up.

I'm not talking about banning all advertising to children. If some people have that idea, it is wrong.

""Good to see teachers still care about children."

Personal attacks don't fly here."

Teachers aren't a person.

***I will try not to respond to any more comments about myself on this topic.***

Its disappointing to see what happens when someone brings up child protection concerns.

It gets worse.

From the Alliance website.

GW are also targeting Scouts, not only Schools.

Also their Warhammer skills and Battle honours components require kids to be instore. Well in Warhammer store to be precise.

Even where awards can be gained from being in a club (and I suspect an Alliance club, of course), they still need to be in store.

Again, as far as I can tell, not a FLGS of any variety, but a bricks and mortar GW store.

"building terrain out of household supplies,"

The most baffling thing I've ever come across.

Completely non (modern) GW talk. However, if dealing with kids, its the parents wallets they need right away. So, I guess this makes sense, as it means the funds the parents do free up can be spent on figures. Its easier to get into a game with figures than just terrain. So, I see what they are doing here.

The fact GW say things like "the Warhammer hobby" bugs me most. I'll have to look for some actual quotes on that.

Wargaming in general, fine. But when they have it so bound up in a single company is simply taking advantage.

If they offered it in regular stores who wanted to be involved, at least kids would get some exposure to the actual wargaming and modeling hobby.

I'd love to get my hands on some of the paperwork, instructions, so on for this.

I wonder if the Scouts also have involvement with other games and companies?

" The fact GW say things like "the Warhammer hobby" "

They've been saying that for decades… ;-)

Yes, absolutely.

So, they have been developing this as a way of putting blinkers on people and trying to ignore both competition and the wider (much wider) wargaming hobby.

(Unfortunately it worked so well, even GW was blinded, hense fiascos over free rules and what consumers wanted, when Mantic and Warlord (and others) were gaining ground)

Its another thing that may be best not being normalised for kids.

At a glance cults and some other (some may say similar) organisations act like that. There are several shows on tv talking about groups that keep members isolated from the outside world.

Its certainly in the public mind.

Also remember, GW is the only company (that I can think of) that only sells its own product, or lisenced product (both ways) but to a far lesser extent.

Even a bakery still sells drinks from manufacturers.

I'm sure they must sell something other than bugmans Brew at hq, golden daemon whatnot, but none of the stores I have been have sold anything not GW, even on line, from what I have seen. So, if any (feel free to enlighten me), it would be 1% or less. Not Macca's and Coke, that's for sure.

So kids are being drawn into a (no, not a cult, I'm sure) consumer experience (see, not a cult), with blinkers on and no window available to see the outside world.

Also

Even when mentioning their club groups going to GW, they call them school groups. So it's definitely school (and Scouts) being targeted, not just a nonrelated after school club (yes except Scouts and anything I missed) as previously suggested. Although they may well operate outside of regular school hours, like a school dance or other function.

Err….whatever, shrug

If I go into the clothing store Fat Face I find Fat Face products.

If I go into the Apple store I find Apple products.

If I go into the Hotel Chocolate store I find Hotel Chocolate products.

If I go into the shoe store Dr Martens I find Dr Martens products.

If I…..go on to list another hundred stores I will get very bored and I think the point has been established now – GW is not the only high street chain which only stocks its own products.

Is GW a cult? I think not. Is it highly effective at selling its product? I think yes. Have GW hidden the whole of the rest of the wargaming world? No, not at all. When the kids go into their local newsagent to pick up their partwork issues (not every small town and village has a GW after all) they will also find White Dwarf. And right next to it on the shelf they will find Miniature Wargames. And Wargames Illustrated. And Wargames Soldiers and Strategy. And maybe Tabletop Gaming. Around it they will find a plethora of plastic modelling magazines.

If there isn't a GW store in town there might be a FLGS, but more likely these days there will be a book store that also carries games. My local FLBS has a games section – about 20% of it is GW, and the rest is not GW. Anyone going there to purchase GW product will also see D&D and Catan and any number of other games. They will also see non-GW figures.

They will not find all of this in a GW store. Did I like it when GW was a more general game store? I did. When did they stop being such? It was 1989 I think when they sold everything off half price to clear the shelves. GW has existed for about 50 years, and for 34 years of that they have only sold their own product.

That is who they are now. There is no sign of that changing in the near, mid or distant future. If the old GW model of selling a wide range of products from different companies and opening new stores on a monthly basis was viable I can't help thinking that someone would have filled the void left on the high street. No-one has.

"Err….whatever, shrug"

Typically means ignoring and moving on. For future reference.

"GW is not the only high street chain which only stocks its own products."

I'd still assume the examples given would have other brands of something. Id assume Apple fancy enough to offer you a beverage?

However, regardless of a few similar examples, GW certainly don't appear to be selling other brands.

"kids go into their local newsagent"

"there might be a FLGS,"

The Alliance is not directing kids to newsagents or other stores (as I mentioned above), that I can see. It does direct them to GW stores.

So, yes GW only stock their own product. Agreed.

" I expect most teachers of English would not be completely heartbroken to see a pupil wading through one of the Black Library enormous tomes of fiction. They might prefer Jane Austen, but hey, at least they are reading something."

Or, if the kids start reading the things that GW games' backstories are based on – legends, myths, the Bible, military history, Tolkien, Dune…

Reading does tend to beget more reading – it's establishing the habit that is important.

True.

However GW are never going to say:

"Oh, you like our space marine books, have you read other people's space marine books? Or try the Judge Dredd magazine, its ace."

So on.

Everything begins with writing, that's a fact that has me writing myself.

So, the idea someone interested in GW may want to read things about and around its creation is not special at all.

Just remember, GW will do anything to not have this occur though. They will just be pointing kids to more Black library books.

Mention of habit is interesting.

I suspect GW will be looking at instilling habits. Perhaps their books are even written to crate habits, with bias toward GW and its products?

For example, as with comic books (perhaps GW ones?) there may be character and story crossovers, encouraging people to buy the other titles as well. Things like that.

I also suspect GW will, and seems to, from the little I know about their novels, push to populate with their product. The more titles they can put out there, the more the fans will read (wait for it) GW stuff. They won't have time to read anything else, especially kids.

So, yes reading is good, but variety is key.

I'd put some of the emphasis elsewhere than on GWs shoulders for the development of a wider reading experience – an individual who is an active reader has some responsibility for widening their own reading, for example. Also parents/friends/teachers.

Agreed.

Such as those people making sure the children aren't subjected to heavy handed marketing strategies.

"an individual who is an active reader has some responsibility for widening their own reading"

The topic concerns children, they may not be an active reader and shouldn't be held responsible for widening their own education.

On the other hand, organisations going into schools should very much be there to widen the kids education, not filling their own pockets at the cost of it.

"However GW are never going to say:

"Oh, you like our space marine books, have you read other people's space marine books? Or try the Judge Dredd magazine, its ace.""

Once you start talking to other GW hobbyists – either in person or online – you will find out that 2000 AD comics – Judge Dredd in particular – are one of the things that had a huge influence on WH40k. IN fact, the design of the original 40k space marines was taken directly from Judge Dredd/200AD comics.

That's the thing about GW – love them or hate them, they introduce a huge percentage of new people to the miniatures gaming hobby. Most of those new hobbyists eventually either leave GW games and move on to other products, or at least start adding other products to their hobbies.

"Also remember, GW is the only company (that I can think of) that only sells its own product, or lisenced product (both ways) but to a far lesser extent."

Never heard of Apple?

No iPhones, iPads, iPods, etc?

Try going to the Apple store and asking for an Android phone.

Oh. and I have worked at schools where Apple donated computers – which used only the Apple operating system, only Apple connectors, only Apple printers and peripherals, only Apple software, etc. All with Apple instruction manuals. All with the Apple logo all over them.

Was this a clear attempt by an evil corporation to trap students into the "cult" of Apple?

Nope, just a public relations outreach by a company that was receiving a tax deduction for these donations.