"running out of people" Topic

Strasser was killed because he was creating his own faction via command of the SA, and Hitler and his backers wiped 'em out…much like how the Stalinists ended Trotsky's faction by ramming an ice pick through his skull, eh?

But please explain why Fascism isn't real Socialism, and whats, as Doc challenges. I mean, if you can't recognize it ya can't fight even when it's staring you in the face…

Here is an admittedly very shorthand distinction (with which I suspect you are already well aware)

Communism – The State owns the means of production.

National Socialism – The State exercises oversight/control of the means of production.

- – -

Interesting summary –
link

B

Blut, yes. Of course there are all sorts of complexities, including the distinction between ownership and control -- which is of course central to corporate capitalism. Of course the German industrialists thought they could use Hitler and he thought he could (and did) dominate them. (That great tavern scene in CABARET: "You still think you can control them?") Probably both got what they wanted until 1945.

There were elements of "national socialism" in FDR's New Deal. Ideas go all over the place and work themselves out in myriad ways.

I do not actually know enough about how the Soviet economy and production system worked during WWII. Were there Russian equivalents of Henry Kaiser or various German industrialists? I'll bet they were party members and terrified of Stalin, but I also bet most of them survived and thrived.

Hi Doc,

That link I attached gives a brief but decent overview of the nature of oversight and control exercised by the National Socialist regime over German industry (and commercial finance). I've done a good deal of reading on the topic of National Socialism and its place on the political spectrum. IMO, it is clearly not classical Communism, but neither can it be remotely described as classical Capitalism. "Socialism" is the convenient remaining option, but that is a BIG catch basin indeed.

- – -

Re Soviet pre-WW2 economic development, the subject I would suggest as most important (and interesting) for study involves -

ALBERT KAHN

In the Soviet Union
On May 8, 1929, through an agreement signed with Kahn by Saul G. Bron, President of Amtorg, the Soviet government contracted Albert Kahn Associates to help design the Stalingrad Tractor Plant, the first tractor plant in the USSR. On January 9, 1930, a second contract with Kahn was signed for his firm to become consulting architects for all industrial construction in the Soviet Union.[23] Under these contracts, during 1929–1932 and the Great Depression, Kahn's firm established a design and training bureau in Moscow to train and supervise Soviet architects and engineers. This bureau, under the government's Gosproektstroi, was headed by Moritz Kahn and 25 others of Kahn Associates staff, who worked in Moscow during this project. They trained more than 4,000 Soviet architects and engineers;[24] and designed 521 plants and factories[3] under the nation's first five-year plan.

kahn and affiliated US engineering firms were responsible for the design, construction, construction management, construction staff and plant management training of just about all the mega-factory complexes made famous by WW2 –
the Dnepropetrovsk power project (the "Three Gorges Dam" of the 1930's; the Chelyabinsk, Magnitogorsk (and Stalingrad) tractor manufacturing complexes, plus 100s of other assorted plants and factories.

It's a deep rabbit hole indeed, when you think about how such a HUGE economic development scheme for the benefit of an apparently unfriendly nation successfully made its way through the Roosevelt administration approval process.

Wheels within wheels.

B

Fascinating. But of course many New Dealers were very sympathetic to the Soviet Union they THOUGHT existed. Lots of unrealistic idealism (and some deliberate refusals to believe the bad stuff.)

Anybody done a good study of the Kahn firm's expereinces?

Blut, have you read Chambers' WITNESS? The part in the introduction about what makes Communists finally question their beliefs? (They hear people screaming.)

Hi Doc,

Re Kahn –
It has been some years (10?) since I came across the subject of the USA's USSR construction projects and I unfortunately do not recall the specific source reference. There is an outside chance I may have saved it on my HDD. I'll have a look.

Re Chambers -
No, I have never read the book. Was he perhaps referring to the acoustic qualities of the Lubyanka? I cannot believe that building is still standing.

B

Doc,
I do not remember whether this book was my original source, but it will be a worthwhile source.
Go to archive.org and search for -

WESTERN TECHNOLOGY AND SOVIET ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, 1917 to 1930
by Anthony C Sutton

B

Thanks!

"I cannot believe that building is still standing."

I can, Blutarski. It's granite and reinforced concrete, and probably partly below grade. It would take serious demolition, and 1991 was only a half-hearted revolution. Besides, whoever runs Russia, you're going to need some place to store troublemakers. This one's convenient to other government offices, and you've got the toy shop right across the street to pick up something for the kids on the way home.

Communism – The State owns the means of production.

National Socialism – The State exercises oversight/control of the means of production.

With Communism, the workers pretend to work and the State pretends to pay them.

With National Socialism, the State exercises oversight and makes sure their financial supporters and partisan hacks get the contracts and subsidies taking money from the taxpayers. It lets the willing workers work and pays them but then steals their money and profits through fees, taxes, deficit spending, and inflation. Sound familiar?

Kind of like how a vampire would keep its victim barely alive by sucking out just enough blood to keep them alive until the next meal.

With both systems, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Wolfhag

"Kind of like how a vampire would keep its victim barely alive by sucking out just enough blood to keep them alive until the next meal."

Hmmm… that sounds very much like…wait was this American
history…oh never neverminded.

link
just saying

Hi dapeters,
Our American economic system is a public/private kleptocracy.

B

Blut, sigh, that is increasingly true. We must have the worst ruling class of any democracy ever.

@blutarski

With National Socialism, the State exercises oversight and makes sure their financial supporters and partisan hacks get the contracts and subsidies taking money from the taxpayers. It lets the willing workers work and pays them but then steals their money and profits through fees, taxes, deficit spending, and inflation. Sound familiar?

Exactly what we're experiencing in the US and across the Western world. Take the public reports about Target, for example, promoting trans swimsuits to kids. Does Target really care? No.

Target is signaling its allyship status to the Capital market that is controlled by the Fed and the Big Banks.

1. The Fed, under the Democrats, has embraced the World Economic Forum-promoted Environmental, Social, and Governance ("ESG") score-tagged so-called "Stakeholder Capitalism" in which the private markets are controlled by State authority and legal tools to ensure companies "meet the needs of the community."

As they define it, of course.

2. The measure of compliance with ESG is the social credit system called the Corporate Social Responsibility score.

3. A company earns its CSR through Acts and Words -- though its Acts of enforcing Diversity Equity and Inclusivity policies (having DEI officers, having DEI hiring policies, woke internal employee messaging, etc.). Through public Acts of compliance, like having trans swimsuits for kids and pushing trans ideology even when their customers don't like it. Words and Acts like the CEO of Target bending the knee, complying publicly by vowing to "fight on."

4. If a company does not maintain a high enough CSR score, it will not be able to access the Capital Market to get the $$$ financing it needs from the Big Banks and the Fed that implement ESG as a compliance and control tool.

This Capital access is more important to the CEO of Target than any business it loses through boycotts that they know will fade and fizzle as the Summer wears on. So if you want to stop this, you can't stop it at Target -- you have to stop it at the source. The Fed, and those controlling the Fed and high economic policies.

Say, stray thought -- IIRC Diversity Equity and Inclusivity was originally called Diversity Inclusivity and Equity with the acronym DIE. The optics for promoting a plan called DIE wasn't very good, so they reordered to Diversity Equity and Inclusivity, or DEI.

Doesn't DEI mean God in Latin? So from DIE to God, eh? Interesting to see the evolution of a new religion in front of us…

The acronym can also be reordered, so, theoretically, the DEI could fall victim to an IED (Insurrection-y Evasive Disobedient(?)… ;-)

God wills it!

LOL!