"Free Russian legion fight in Russia" Topic

According to several sources free Russians have attacked small settlements close to Belgorod. Several twitter accounts show geolocated pictures placed between the Russo-Ukrainian border and Belgorod of armed men.

They are not Ukrainians but Russians fighting against Putins regime. Too free Russia from its dictator.

We will see what happens next. But Russia needs to respond to losing control of its homeland to russian separatists.

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Russia is almost losing control of tac nukes…

I can see it now.
Russia has a tactical nuke go of on Russian soil which they blame Ukraine whom stole it at that location.
Can Putang lie again and again and again and have anyone believe him or his state controlled news stations?
Again he is willing to have innocent Russians die so he can stay in power.
Once a communist ALWAYS a communist.

Problem with that scenario would be the admission of loosing control in the first place…. Not sure what Xi likes for breakfast but I could see it being spat all over the table if his morning briefing included a Russian loose nuke incident. Not entirely sure NATO would be thrilled with that outcome either though.

Its certainly an interesting situation not least how they managed to get to the border. Through Russia's fortified front line? I also wonder if more figures in Russian nationalist circles will have fatal accidents. This is going to do wonders for Putin's paranoia levels. I assume it was at least in part a propaganda operation but I also that the Ukrainian military were watching very closely how Russian forces responded….

The Bryansk region is a vast forest area. It is quite difficult to control the area from the penetration of small groups here.

This is just a demonstration operation to divert attention from the defeat in Bakhmut. Collaborators practically do not fight with the army or the police – they simply demonstrate their presence on the territory of Russia, kill civilians, fire at civilian objects and residential buildings. No one will ever support them – not even Putin's opponents. No one wants to cooperate with ordinary assassins.
In Russia, this is not a sensation – in our Caucasus, the appearance of such bandits occurs periodically. This hasn't really bothered anyone in a long time. Sooner or later, these Vlasovites will be destroyed.

The redeployment of nuclear weapons from the territories adjacent to the combat area is a reasonable precaution.

This is how this situation is now covered in the Russian media. In my opinion, everything is quite reliable and detailed (as far as possible in the conditions of the operation):

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to divert attention from the defeat in Bakhmut

Enjoy your victory, sorry, "victory". Though I don't know what is bigger: the pileof rubble you now control or the pile of corpses you paid for it.

A pile of corpses of Ukrainian and hired soldiers, which was destroyed by yesterday's criminals)))
So how do you know the number of casualties? Who counted them? Ukrainian propaganda? ;-)
And yes, it's a big win. Ukrainians have been talking about the "impregnable Bakhmut fortress" for months. She wasn't very unapproachable. And it was also an excellent operation to constrain the actions of the enemy, which was a great success.
Where is the promised Ukrainian large-scale offensive? I'm already tired of waiting ;-)
Give them, finally, everything that they lack. The thicker the grass – the easier it is to mow.

Russia is almost losing control of tac nukes…

The nuke storage site is only close on the map, but not if you look at the road net.

Apparently a Russian helicopter has been shot down, with some mystery as it was not that close to the raiders.

Some Russian bloggers are talking about setting up a buffer zone, letting the raiders keep the villages.

The anti-tank dragons teeth were ineffective, as they were not deployed all the way across the road and no one defended them, so the raiders just drove around them.

Surprising that the only Russians who fought back were the border officers.

There's some disagreement as to whether the Russians captured one of the raider's vehicles.

It's an open question whether Ukrainian artillery will fire in support of the raiders.

And somehow an FSB office in Belgorod blew up, apparently a drone strike.

This is how this situation is now covered in the Russian media. In my opinion, everything is quite reliable and detailed (as far as possible in the conditions of the operation):

Yeah that'll be right.

Based on Putin's previous attempts to save Russian citizen's from terrorists if I was living in Belgorod I'd rather he didn't. I've already seen it suggested the Russian military have deployed Grads – yes Grads. Against probably a company-sized group of light infantry raiders, probably widely scattered.

I'd also be interested to know just how the fighting in Bakhmut is a victory since both sides are still actively contesting the immediate area? The former settlement is still effectively the frontline.

My WAG this incursion is largely a stunt and to some extent some light trolling of Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea. Its clear that the lines in this area aren't strongly manned the Ukrainian's are probably hopping to correct that.

" kill civilians, fire at civilian objects and residential buildings" You mean what the ruscum have been doing in the Ukraine,

Tally Ho!

I don't care about assumptions – anyone can assume anything. The question is – what are the grounds for the assumptions? And I'll make my own guesses.

The battle for Bakhmut has already played its role. The task set by the Russian side has already been completed.

I will surprise you – the territories directly adjacent to the border are guarded only by border guards and local police. Military units are located at some distance from the border. Moreover, in these areas there was not even any special position – they live according to the laws and rules of peacetime. With the exception of the construction of military engineering structures on the border, of course. It's a mess – but it's being fixed. There is an old Russian proverb: "Until the thunder breaks out, the peasant will not cross himself"…

Here is a photo of a Ukrainian armored car captured at night:

And it was also an excellent operation to constrain the actions of the enemy, which was a great success.

Aren't you the guys invading another country? Constraining the actions of Ukraine seems a pretty low bar for the aggressor.

Where is the promised Ukrainian large-scale offensive? I'm already tired of waiting ;-)

That one can still show up, unlike the Russian winter offensive :-p
How are your pincers that were supposed to encircle Bakhmut doing, btw?

"The task set by the Russian side has already been completed"

What? The three day special operation? The only real tasks have been the murder of civilians, something the ruscum have been pretty good at.

Cuprum seems to forget that the west will have been monitoring what the soviets have been up to, and Int will have been passed to the Ukrainians so they can kick out the fascist invaders,

Tally Ho!

Russian winter offensive? And when were the statements of the Russian side about such a desire?

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa, Grads were actually used. To suppress artillery, which supported the actions of a sabotage group from the territory of Ukraine.

Russian winter offensive? And when were the statements of the Russian side about such a desire?

So Russia invades a country to only retreat, retreat, retreat, take one pile of rubble and now your media talks of creating a buffer zone within its own borders?

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Our Politburo insider seems to have got a bit carried away…

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa, Grads were actually used. To suppress artillery, which supported the actions of a sabotage group from the territory of Ukraine.

As I said saw it on the internet. I would just comment that it says a lot when peoples minds go a particular place first…

witteridderludo, oh yes. Our generals were preparing for a solemn march through friendly territory. And they bit off a piece that they could not chew. And there we got on the nose)))
I had to give up what they could not control with the forces and means that were originally planned. So what? The war is just beginning. The rusty machine of the Russian state and army is only gaining momentum. And if she can't handle it, then she doesn't deserve to exist.

To refer to some blogger unknown to anyone in Russia… Why? Who does he represent?
Although the buffer zone really does not hurt – in order to save the lives of the civilian population. I don't see any sensation here.

By the way, according to official statements, the border area has already been cleared of Ukrainian saboteurs. According to preliminary information, the loss of collaborators and Ukrainians was about seventy killed (including destroyed artillery batteries on Ukrainian territory).
We are waiting for photo and video evidence.

And here is the first evidence of the destruction of saboteurs. Photos of the second captured armored car appeared and there are photos of several corpses of killed saboteurs, but I don't like to post such photos. However, if you want, I can post it.

The state of contemporary mass media (everyone's mass media -- Russian, Ukrainian, British, American, etc.) is such that I am hesitant to comment on any event like this until several months after said event occurs (or doesn't occur as we often find out later). In dangerous times like these, caution is a virtue that we would all be better off practicing. That said, I do like reading posts on this site to better understand people's perspectives.

I'm a bit sceptical about this one. Putin has been presenting his imperialist land grab from the start as defending Russia from invasion by Ukrainian Fascists/ NATO/ genetically engineered whatevers, whilst Ukraine has been quite careful to avoid being seen to be attacking into Russian territory too obviously for fear of alienating squeamish but critical Western support. Then this 'invasion' comes along. False flag?

(everyone's mass media -- Russian) Does Russia have mass media in a similar fashion to the west?!!

Tally Ho!

The Ukrainian group has been destroyed. All settlements and checkpoints on the border have been returned to Russian control. The state of emergency has been lifted in the Belgorod region.
Footage of captured and destroyed Ukrainian armored vehicles:

- 2 American armored vehicles M1224 MaxxPro (both captured)
- 2 American armored vehicles HMMWV M1151A1 (both damaged and abandoned)
- 1 American cargo armored car HMMWV M1152A1 (destroyed)
- 1 Ukrainian armored car KRAZ COBRA (destroyed)
- 1 Polish armored car AMZ Dzik-2 (destroyed)

Several unarmored vehicles were also destroyed.

As one would expect, it was just a publicity stunt designed to divert public attention from the defeat in Bakhmut.

Well it worked Russian millibloggers went into meltdown…
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"Footage of captured and destroyed Ukrainian armored vehicles"

Gosh, some trucks, not quite as spectacular as the display of captured and destroyed fascist armoured vehicles and tanks in Kiev,

Tally Ho!

Photos look kind of staged. Two vehicles parked into craters… looks fake.

I don't know what it is, but it's not an explosion crater.

I can assume that some incomprehensible structure collapsed under the weight of the cars.

Cuprum is another reason Putin won't die. Keeps holding on to the romanticized Stalin fantasy of a great Russian Empire. All Russia has done was to continue their wraith of Holodomor. Attempt to cleanse a people by falsely attacking them, raping, pillaging and even stealing children. At least the incursion into Ukraine was done by Russians who have the balls to stand up to the terroristic regime of Putin's Russia. Unlike others who just rattle his sabre.

They are just paid bandits. Garbage…
They kill their peaceful fellow citizens, shoot at children. In their previous attack, they killed two elderly unarmed farmers and wounded a ten-year-old child in the back.
I hope that for people like them, the death penalty will be restored in Russia.

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As expected. Ordinary Nazis, even if they are actually Russian by nationality. And they use Nazi emblems. The prototype of their flag is the emblem of the Vlasovites – traitors in the service of Hitler.
All Nazi scum gathers under the flags of Ukraine ;-)

If it is true what you write Cuprum it sounds like what the russian army accomplish every thirtieth second in Ukraine day after day after day. And get medals for it.

Like the unit which was responsible for the atrocities in Bucha and Irpin and was decorated for it by Putin afterwards.

Many Nazi scum fight for Russia. You know why Wagner Group is called Wagner? Because real founder of Wagner, callsign Wagner:

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As far as I remember, those killed in Bucha wore white armbands. Not yellow, not blue, not green. White.
These were the pro-Russian citizens of Ukraine destroyed by the Ukrainian Nazis.
And the bulk of the victims were killed (according to Western experts) by artillery (arrow-shaped submunitions). The Russian army entered Bucha without a fight and did not use artillery – but Ukrainian artillery hit the city.
I consider this incident a Ukrainian staging. However, it will only be possible to sort this out after the war. While the guns are talking, the truth is silent.

First: What does the founder of the Wagner group have to do with the state? This structure was originally created to protect Russian ships from Somali pirates. Then they began to be hired to protect the property of Russian business abroad. For the first time, the Wagner began to participate in hostilities only in Syria, for which it was hired by the Russian state.

Second: oddly enough, Nazi tattoos are a tradition of Soviet/Russian criminals. This is the so-called "negative" – those who refuse to comply with the rules established by the state in prisons. Not necessarily Nazis.

Read it – it's quite interesting:

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Thanks for link, will read it.

I consider this incident a Ukrainian staging.

Cuprum, do You really believe that massacre at Bucha was made by Ukrainians? You know that everybody except Russians KNOW that that massacre was Russia fault only?

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Why are You delusional? Its irrational. :(

"scum" Funny coming from a ruscum, led blindly since the nearest thing to Hitler, since Hitler.

"I hope that for people like them, the death penalty will be restored in Russia" It already is, or did all of those people just fall out of the windows, not forgetting the ruscum who came to the UK distributing radioactive poison.

"While the ruscums are talking, the truth is silent"
There changed it for you,

Tally Ho!

What does the founder of the Wagner group have to do with the state?

Perun explain it best:
youtu.be/wXKUNc9yI2A
F.ex. Wagner has the same base as Russian military nuclear force.

Umpapa, the main question is who benefited from it?
Alongside this incident, I remember the babies torn to pieces by Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait; emaciated Bosnians in a concentration camp, a test tube with chemical weapons on the UN podium …
Lies, lies, lies…

Who is Perun and why should I trust him? )))

Perun is one of the best (Australian BTW) analyst on the internet. Very cautious and detailed.

youtu.be/wXKUNc9yI2A
From 26:10

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Russian fake? You be the judge

Mil-Net is hot all day that real target of the raid was the newest version Р-330Ж "Житель" – Zhitel

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Which newest version was able to jam navsystems, HIMARS and the like. Supposedly. According to rumours it give a lot of pain to Ukraine recently.

UA year ago captured older version. Buy newest version was different story.

Supposedly raiding force was able to capture whole set of newest Zhitel intact (bribing crew?) and supposedly it has been already moved out of Ukraine.

So in several months (it will take time) we may see again improvement of accuracy and comunication of UA forces.

Rumour is that it was so important target that USA approved this mission.

Relata refero, but many sources, so quite possible. We will see.

I kind of wonder if Cuprum is actually Putin in disguise. Keeps spewing the same propaganda over and over. Nazis. Nazis. I think the dead civilians and stolen children have something to say about that. Even the UN comdems everything the Russian terrorists are doing.

First: What does the founder of the Wagner group have to do with the state?

So now we all know, that both Wagner and Utkin "Wagner" have a LOT to do with RU state.

Utkin was seen in the Kremlin during the celebration of Fatherland's Heroes Day on 9 December 2016. He attended the celebration as a laureate of four Orders of Courage and was photographed with the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin. Dmitry Peskov, the Press Secretary for the Russian President, admitted that Utkin was among the invitees, but did not comment on his connection with the mercenaries.

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Second: oddly enough, Nazi tattoos are a tradition of Soviet/Russian criminals. This is the so-called "negative" – those who refuse to comply with the rules established by the state in prisons. Not necessarily Nazis.

But Utkin "Wagner" was NOT convict (zek) or criminal, he was just decorated (4 medals for courage) retired Colonel of GRU, defender of system and epitome of state.

So it was NOT for rebellion, it was just his REAL NAZI beliefs.
And he was leader and founder of Your best assault corps.

I cannot imagine any leader of such level ("corps" commander) having SS and NAZI tattoos in Ukraina or West or anywhere except Russia.

See Cuprum, we can deconstruct all Your false arguments, part by part.

Mil-Net is hot all day that real target of the raid was the newest version Р-330Ж "Житель" – Zhitel

On the face of it the raid makes not a whole lot of sense and arguably the optics put it on the 'stupid' side of Ukraine's military leger – see the US response today. Sure it yanked Russia's chain and could be seen as some kind information warfare action or diversion. Frankly some of the MRAPs look ditched, but even so, that's half-a-dozen or so vehicles from Ukraine's limited stocks plus any human cost. An objective raid for a system like that would put a very different spin on it.

Such set could not be taken without cooperation of crewmen (even in traditional Russian барда́к (bardαk) = mess). Somebody must have been bribed to defect.

It would be worth an Oscar movie.

The internet OSINT-crowd have been crawling over the imagery released in the Russian media. HUMVEEs dumped in an alleged crater with inconsistent damage, anti-Russian slogans spray painted over combat damage, imagery of the bodies is suspect – uniforms don't match and those of the raiders and imagery is of a different resolution, etc.

So was this whole thing a Putin con job?

No, but the Russian's appear to have possibly sex-ed up the scene post-incident to make it more useful from a propaganda point of view. Bear in mind that this is a country who's media showed a blatantly and not very well Photoshopped image of a non-existent Ukrainian fighter jet shooting down MH17.

Yes volunteers from two anti-Putin militant groups crossed the border. Destroyed a border crossing, created some social media footage and then moved into a couple of settlements where there appears to have been some kind of confrontation once the Russians responded. The vehicles the militants took with them seem to have been largely captured. Casualty reports are unconvincing from both sides, one's claiming a clean sheet and the other nearly twice as many dead as the militants claims regarding the size of the operation.

And yes one of the two groups involved are ultra-nationalists with a very racist set of ideals. Not good optics for the Ukrainians and good propaganda value for the Russians to a point. The Ukrainians are definitely engaging in some creative ambiguity over their fairly obvious involvement.

Beyond that *shrug*. Plenty of claims floating around including one that the Ukrainian's actually carried out a CASVAC operation…

" No one will ever support them – not even Putin's opponents. No one wants to cooperate with ordinary assassins."

Is not the kettle calling the pot black?

OK. I read the information collected on Utkin in the blog of the oppositionist.

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Utkin does seem to have Nazi convictions. But – the article says that these beliefs began to manifest themselves after his departure from the army.
The creator of PMC "Wagner" is still Prigozhin, who hired Utkin to manage his new company (given his experience, this is not surprising). I think a businessman cares little about the beliefs of a hired manager.
Utkin is now a civilian serving in a private company under contract. He is not in the public service.
In Russia, high-level awards are presented in the Kremlin by the president personally. State awards are presented to a variety of people: artists and artists, teachers, doctors, officials, businessmen, even ordinary workers for various achievements for the good of the country. After the presentation of the awards, a photo session with the president and a traditional solemn banquet for the awardees take place. Including such awards are received by the personnel of the PMC for the feats accomplished in the performance of tasks set by the state. I don't see any problem with that and I don't see any particular connection between Putin and Utkin.
This whole story is sucked from the finger … Yes – Utkin seems to be a Nazi. But he does not demonstrate his views publicly and does not spread this ideology. Wagner fighters do not wear Nazi symbols and do not make Nazi statements. What is the problem? The fact is unpleasant, but Utkin has not yet given a reason to hold him accountable. A person's personal views are his own business. It is impossible to punish for thoughts – only for illegal actions.

With the Ukrainian Nazis, the opposite is true: the public Nazi Tyahnybok was at the head of the "revolution of dignity", there were public Nazis among Ukrainian politicians, there are openly Nazi formations in the Ukrainian army that publicly use Nazi symbols …

The difference is not just obvious – it is blatant.

Are the secret Nazi views of one of the hired leaders of a Russian private military company equivalent to the wide presence in Ukraine in the public field, including in the public service, of a huge number of public Nazis? I don't think so.

As for the capture of any Russian secret complex – outright nonsense. Where is the proof? All that the Nazis captured was a defective armored personnel carrier of the border guards, which remained in place until they were kicked out of Russia.

Captured armored car profusely painted with Z marks is a common practice to avoid friendly fire.

Remember when Russians said thousand of Polish officers were massacred by the Nazis in WW2? (Katyn – 21.000 murdered) … nothing have change from this kind of people…

We are loosing our time here…

Armand