Help support TMP


"Italian Artillery and supply Crews" Topic


10 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please be courteous toward your fellow TMP members.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Napoleonic Painting Guides Message Board


Areas of Interest

Napoleonic

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

Volley & Bayonet


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

28mm Soldaten Hulmutt Jucken

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian paints the Dogman from the Flintloque starter set.


Featured Profile Article

Herod's Gate

Part II of the Gates of Old Jerusalem.


Current Poll


Featured Book Review


1,382 hits since 3 May 2023
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
DevoutDavout03 May 2023 4:50 p.m. PST

I even have hard copy books on this, and still have a hard time. My brain is a pretzel. I have:

Two crews and limbers with crew of FOOT artillery,1st and 2nd of line.
Two supply trains with crews of line.

Two crews and limber with crew of FOOT artillery, of Guard
One supply train with crew of guard.

Each *Italian* not Neopolitan. Roughly 1809.

If it helps I am doing 1st and 2nd line, 1st light for regulars, a couple cannons for them and for the rules I need supply trains. Also doing a wide mix of each type of Italian Guard, and just want a supply train and couple cannons for them, I just remember they are different.

Can anyone toss me some crumbs of each of these uniforms? I thought I had these all figured out a couple weeks ago when I ordered. One of those things where I, like a dolt, did no saving just assumed I *really* got it at the moment and it all fell out of my head. I just remember these are nothing like their parent units in color.

Sorry this one of those posts and hopefully I can pay it forward. I do not know why italy throws me so hard on top of making me so unorganized. God help me I ever try Neopolitan.

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP03 May 2023 8:33 p.m. PST

Try here for some uniform and organizational information.

napitalia.org.uk/eng/index.shtml

Jim

Prince of Essling04 May 2023 8:02 a.m. PST

Will post info later once I get access to my books etc….

DevoutDavout04 May 2023 9:40 a.m. PST

Thanks guys. I found out why I was going crazy. No bookmarks, because it was in a book after all, and simple as a single plate, so why I forgot so easily. So it seems I did an aha and stuck it in a corner for later…

Its 137 of the ESR campaign book of Iberia. All in one plate.

Ill leave this existing thread in case it helps anyone down the line. Id post it but not sure if that is kosher with such a book.

Prince of Essling04 May 2023 12:28 p.m. PST

From the Rawkins CD – for the line infantry's artillery companies

COMPAGNIA DI ARTIGLIERIA REGGIMENTALE
From 1810 each Reggimento di linea was to be assigned a Compagnia di Artiglieria Reggimentale, a company of regimental artillery, consisting of two captured Austrian light 3pdr field guns with an establishment of 75 officers and men, including an attendant train section. Although the regiments of line infantry included an artillery company on the paper strength from 1810 the batteries, if raised, do not appear to have served with the field battalions until 1812, although two 3pdr or 4 pdr guns were delivered to the depot of each of the regiments in 1811. The equipment prescribed for the Compagnia di Artiglieria Reggimentale consisted of two guns, three
regimental/artillery tool wagon. The train section was also responsible for the regimental train which was officially set in 1810 as one regimental field ambulance, and for each battaglioni di guerra, one small arms caisson and one supplies wagon. Any additional wagons for supplies, officers baggage or field equipment had to be found from forge, and caissons, one regimental funds or ‘acquired' locally. The regiment received funding to purchase four draft horses for each vehicle, the beasts usually found from auctions of retired cavalry mounts.

HEADGEAR
Both the artillerists and the train wore the same pattern of shako as the infantrymen of the regiment with black leather trim to the upper edge and brass lozenge plate pierced with the regimental number. The chin- scales were brass with a grenade motif stamped onto the boss. The gunners and the drivers all had a red ball pompon. The berretto, fatigue cap was of the same stocking pattern as worn by the regiment but was dark green with red piping and tassel for the artigliere and had a red grenade motif at the front of the headband. The cap is also described as having dark green piping and a wide red trim to the headband. The treno berretto was dark green with dark green piping and tassel.

COAT
The coat issued to the Artiglieria was a dark green habit coat with the collar, lapels, turnbacks and cuffs all dark green with red piping, and the cuff-flaps red. The shoulder-straps were bastion tipped and dark green piped red; the tail pockets were piped red. All buttons were white metal and embossed with the regimental number. In correspondance between the author and the late Rene North he indicated that there was some evidence that the Artigliere 1o di classe, 1st class gunners may have been distinguished by fringed red epaulettes and the the Artigliere 2o di classe, 2nd Class gunners may have had dark green cuff-flaps. Whilst these variations from the regulations of 1810 may be feasible no original source is given to support these suggestions and no firm evidence has been found elsewhere although similar distinctions were used by the neighbouring Kingdom of Naples.

The drivers of the regimental train were issued with a coat in 1810 of the ‘habit a la Kinski' style. This was a short tailed, single breasted coatee of dark green closed at the breast with nine large white metal buttons. The collar and the turnbacks were dark green piped with red and cuffs were of the Brandenburg pattern and dark green with red piping and red cuff-flaps. The shoulder-straps were bastion tipped and dark green with red piping. In 1812 a new coatee of the same style began to be issued with red collar, small vertical tail pockets and square-cut cuffs piped red with two buttons at the training edge, one on the cuff actual and one above. This coat appears to have been worn by the regimental baggage drivers from 1813.

BREECHES, ETC
The waist-coats and breeches for the artillery gunners were dark green with white metal buttons and worn with black, high over the knee gaiters with cloth covered buttons in 1810. The Artiglieria were issued with white overall trousers for summer wear and dark green overalls for winter and campaign wear. Both the gunners and the treno drivers were issued with the ‘giubba' sleeved waistcoat for fatigues, of dark green with white metal buttons and dark green facings to the collar and cuffs. The gunner's great coats were of the same double breasted pattern as issued to the line infantry in 1811 and were pepper-grey with plain upright collar and Swedish cuffs and closed with two rows of white metal buttons on the breast. The shoulder-straps were plain coat colour with rounded inner tips.

The drivers of the train section were issued with dark green breeches and high cuffed riding boots in 1810 but by 1812 these had generally been superceded by tight fitting overall trousers of a very light grey, or dark green heavy canvas with a row of white metal buttons on the outer seam. The overalls were worn over short riding boots with screw-in spurs. The mounted drivers were issued with a cavalry style greatcoat of pepper grey, single breasted with a deep cape at the shoulders closed with four large white metal buttons. The plain collar and the short squared cuffs were of the coat colour.

EQUIPMENT
The equipment and arms issued to the Compagnia di Artiglieria Reggimentale was basically the same as issued to the elite companies of the line infantry. The musket issued was the standard pattern m 1777 infantry short carbine with a socket bayonet manufactured in Italy and fitted with a whitened leather sling. Pouch belts were of the standard infantry issue, a whitened leather simple loop belt which supported a black leather cartridge pouch with a plain undecorated lid. The sabre-belt was whitened leather and supported the regulation infantry pattern 1805 sabre- briquet in a double frog with the bayonet. The sabre-scabbard and bayonet sheath were black leather with brass heel and fittings. Sabre-straps were white with red knot and tassels.

The train drivers and outriders were not issued with the carbine or bayonet although long arms were carried in the baggage wagon for piquet and guard duties. Each man was armed with the infantry pattern sabre-briquet carried on a regulation pattern whitened leather shoulder belt with black leather scabbard and white sabre-strap. The drivers and outriders were issued with two cavalry pistols either of the 1805 Italian pattern or the Italian copies of the m 1777 French pistol carried in holsters on the saddle.

OFFICERS & NCOs
The non-commissioned officers of the Artigliere and the treno wore the same basic uniform as the men except that they were distinguished in the same manner as their counterparts in the infantry with silver or white stripes of rank worn on the sleeves above the cuffs.

The two company officers wore the same style of shako or bicorn hat as the infantry officers with all metalwork and lace trim silvered and red pompons. The coat was of the same style and colouring as those of the men with silver grenades on the turnbacks and silver epaulettes as for the tenente and sotto-tenente of the infantry.

Breeches and waistcoats were dark green and worn with high cuffed riding boots. All officers' equipment was as for those of the line infantry but belting was generally black leather with brass buckles and fittings.

MUSICIANS
Very little information has been found about the uniforms of the drummers of the regimental artillery or the trumpeter of the train section. The uniforms would probably have been as for the men perhaps with the drummers having swallows-nest epaulettes which would probably have been dark green or red with white lace trim. The drummers and the trumpeter of the train section may have had white lace trim to the collar and cuffs.

HORSE FURNITURE
The train out-riders had demi-shabraques of dark green edged with a wide band of white and piped dark green at the extreme edge and a white sheepskin saddle cover with dark green dogtooth edging. The valise was squared and dark green with white lace trim at the outer tips. The two company officers were mounted and their shabraques were of the same pattern as used by the line infantry officers, dark green with a silver lace edging piped dark green and a silver grenade motif in the rear corners.

For the light infantry:

COMPAGNIA DI ARTIGLIERIA REGGIMENTALE
From 1810 each Reggimento Leggera was to be assigned a Compagnia di Artiglieria Reggimentale, a company of regimental artillery, consisting of two captured Austrian light 3pdr field guns with an establishment of 75 officers and men, including an attendant train section. The establishments and equipment were exactly as those for the line infantry regiments and the companies do not appear to have been assigned to the field until the 1812 campaign and although they existed on paper in 1813 do not seem to have been re-raised.

The uniforms and equipment of the artillerists and train soldiers were almost identical to those of the line infantry regimental artillery except that the shako was decorated with a shako plate of the light infantry pattern embossed with the buglehorn motif and regimental number. The coats were of the same pattern habitveste as worn by the Fanteria Leggera with short tails and pointed lapels and were dark green with dark green collar, lapels, turnbacks, shoulder-straps and cuffs piped scarlet and scarlet cuff- flaps. Waist-coats and breeches were dark green and were worn with black, knee length gaiters with brass buttons. All equipment was as for the regimental artillery of the line infantry. The uniforms of the non-commissioned-officers and officers followed the same distinctions as the regiment with officers having silvered plate and fittings to the shako or silver cockade-strap on the bicorn hat and the long tailed habit coat with pointed lapels and epaulettes as for the regimental officers.

Prince of Essling04 May 2023 12:33 p.m. PST

COMPAGNIA DI ARTIGLIERIA REGGIMENTALE DELLA GUARDIA REALE
From 1810 each foot regiment of the guard was to be assigned a Compagnia di Artiglieria Reggimentale, a company of regimental artillery, consisting of two light 3pdr or 4 pdr field guns with an establishment of 75 officers and men, including an attendant train section. Although the regiments included an artillery company on the paper strength from 1810 the batteries, if raised, do not appear to have served with the field battalions until 1812, although two 3pdr or 4 pdr guns were delivered to the depot of each of the regiments in 1811. The equipment prescribed for the Compagnia di Artiglieria Reggimentale consisted of two guns, three caissons, one forge, and a regimental/artillery tool wagon. The train section was also responsible for the regimental train which was officially set in 1810 as one regimental field ambulance, and for each battaglioni di guerra, one small arms caisson and one supplies wagon. Any additional wagons for supplies, officers baggage or field equipment had to be found from regimental funds or ‘acquired' locally. The regiment received funding to purchase four draft horses for each vehicle, the beasts usually found from auctions of retired cavalry mounts.

The organisation of the regimental artillery companies was as for the line infantry and the company was always assigned to the battalion currently carrying the regimental eagle.

The regimental artillery companies were reformed after the Russian campaign of 1812 but the process appears to have halted in June 1813 and there has been no confirmed evidence that the batteries accompanied their regiments to war in 1813 or 1814. Any rebuilt artillery companies after the disastrous Russian campaign of 1812 probably made up part of the garrison at the regimental depot. A further indication that the field battalions were without a regimental artillery are the orders of 1813 which allocated to each battalion four pack horses/mules for the battalion baggage which had previously been carried by the train section, plus two additional horses or mules assigned one each to the Tesoriere-Quartiermastro and Chirurgo- Maggiore for the transport of the regimental accounts and medical supplies.

The pack horses were managed by a Caporale di treno and three ‘gestore di cavallo', horse handlers.

HEADGEAR
Both the artillerists and the train wore the same pattern of shako as the infantry men of the regiment. The artillerists assigned to the Reggimento di Fanteria di Linea and the Reggimento di Veliti della Guarda Reale wore the bearskin bonnet of the light infantry pattern without a front plate and with a scarlet patched at the rear with a white cross. The cords and flounders and full dress plume were scarlet. The regimental artillery company of the Reggimento di Conscriti della Guardia Reale were issued with a shako with black leather trim to the upper edge and brass lozenge plate embossed with the Italian eagle motif above crossed cannon. The chin-scales were brass with a grenade motif stamped onto the boss. The gunners had a red ball pompon and tall scarlet feather plume for parade dress. The berretto, fatigue cap was of the same stocking pattern as worn by the regiment but was dark green with red trim to the headband, red piping and tassel for the artigliere and had a red grenade motif at the front of the headband. The cap is also described as having a plain headband with red piping and tassel. The treno detachments assigned to each company wore the same style of shako with a green pompon of either the carrot or ball shaped pattern. The berretto was blue-grey with grass green trim to the headband and green piping and tassel.

COAT
The coat issued to the Artiglieria was a dark green habit coat with the collar, lapels, and cuffs all dark green with red piping, and the squared cuff-flaps red. Turnbacks were scarlet with white grenade motifs and the tail pockets horizontal with three points and three buttons. All buttons were pewter for the Reggimento di Fanteria di Linea and the Reggimento di Conscriti della Guardia Reale and brass for the Reggimento di Veliti della Guarda Reale and of the guard infantry pattern embossed with the crowned Italian eagle. The gunners were issued with a sleeved waistcoat the giubba con maniche of dark green with scarlet collar and plain squared cuffs and dark green shoulder-straps. Buttons were white metal of brass as for the abito.

The drivers of the regimental train were supplied by the Compagnia di Treno della Guardia Reale and wore the 1806 pattern train coat of the ‘habit a la Kinski' style. This was a short tailed, single breasted coatee of blue-grey closed at the breast with eight white metal buttons each with a baton of grass green lace at the buttonhole with pointed outer tips. The collar and pointed pattern cuffs were grass green with a single grass green lace baton on the collar and two horizontal batons on the cuffs. The turnbacks were grass green with red grenade motifs and the tails were decorated with green piped pockets a'Soubise. In 1812 a new coatee of the same style began to be issued without the tail pockets or the lace batons on the collar and cuffs. The shoulders of both patterns of coat were decorated with grass green full fringed epaulettes and green aiguillettes were worn at the right shoulder. All buttons were white metal and embossed with the crowned Italian eagle above crossed cannon.

BREECHES, ETC
The gilets and breeches for the artillery gunners were dark green with white metal or brass buttons and worn with black, high over the knee gaiters with cloth covered buttons in 1811. The Artiglieria were issued with white overall trousers for summer wear and dark green overalls for winter and campaign wear. The gunner's great coats were of the same double breasted pattern as issued to the line infantry in 1811 and were pewter-grey with plain upright collar and Swedish cuffs and closed with two rows of white metal buttons on the breast. Scarlet full fringed epaulettes were worn at the shoulders.

The drivers of the train section were issued with white breeches and high cuffed riding boots in 1811 but by 1812 these had generally been superceded by tight fitting overall trousers of a blue-grey, with a row of white metal buttons on the outer seam. The overalls were worn over short riding boots with screw-in spurs. The mounted drivers were issued with a cavalry style greatcoat of blue-grey, single breasted with a deep cape at the shoulders closed with four large white metal buttons. The collar and the short squared cuffs were grass green.

EQUIPMENT
The equipment and arms issued to the Compagnia di Artiglieria Reggimentale was basically the same as issued to the elite companies of the line infantry. The musket issued was the standard pattern m 1777 infantry short carbine with a socket bayonet manufactured in Italy and fitted with a whitened leather sling. Pouch belts were of the standard infantry issue, a whitened leather simple loop belt which supported a black leather cartridge pouch with a plain undecorated lid. The sabre-belt was whitened leather and supported the regulation infantry pattern 1805 sabre- briquet in a double frog with the bayonet. The sabre-scabbard and bayonet sheath were black leather with brass heel and fittings. Sabre-straps were white with red knot and tassels.

The train drivers and outriders were not issued with the carbine or bayonet although long arms were carried in the baggage wagon for piquet and guard duties. Each man was armed with the infantry pattern sabre-briquet carried on a regulation pattern whitened leather shoulder belt with black leather scabbard and white sabre-strap. The drivers and outriders were issued with two cavalry pistols either of the 1805 Italian pattern or the Italian copies of the m 1777 French pistol carried in holsters on the saddle.

OFFICERS & NCOs
The non-commissioned officers of the Artigliere and the treno wore the same basic uniform as the men except that they were distinguished in the same manner as their counterparts in the infantry with silver or white stripes of rank worn on the sleeves above the cuffs.

The two company officers wore the same style of bearskin bonnet or shako as the gunners with all metalwork and lace trim silvered and red pompons. The coat was of the same style and colouring as those of the men with silver grenades on the turnbacks and silver epaulettes as for the tenente and sotto- tenente of the infantry. Breeches and waistcoats were dark green and worn with high cuffed riding boots. All officers' equipment was as for those of the line infantry but belting was generally black leather with brass buckles and fittings.

MUSICIANS
Very little information has been found about the uniforms of the drummers of the regimental artillery or the trumpeter of the train section.

The uniforms would probably have been as for the men. The drummers and the trumpeter of the train section may have had silver lace trim to the collar and cuffs.

HORSE FURNITURE
The train out- riders had demi-shabraques of blue- grey edged with a wide band of grass green and piped blue-grey at the extreme edge and a white sheepskin saddle cover with grass green dogtooth edging. The valise was squared and blue-grey with grass green lace trim at the outer tips. The two artillery company officers were mounted and their shabraques were of the same pattern as used by the regimental officers, dark green with a silver lace edging piped dark green and a silver grenade motif in the rear corners; gold lace and decorations for the Reggimento di Veliti della Guarda Reale.

Prince of Essling04 May 2023 12:45 p.m. PST

See Histunif site for drawings (the guard regimental artillery uniforms are embedded in each of the regiemnts):
Planches sur les uniformes de l'artillerie régimentaire de l'infanterie légère (1810-1814)
link
Planches sur les uniformes de l'artillerie régimentaire de l'infanterie de ligne 1809-1814
link
Planches sur les uniformes du Bataillon du Train d'artillerie 1811 – 1814
link
Planches sur les uniformes du Corps puis Régiment des Vélites de la Garde royale 1805-1814
link
Planches sur les uniformes du Régiment d'infanterie de la Garde royale 1805-1812 puis Régiment des Grenadiers de la Garde royale 1813-1814
link
Planches sur les uniformes du Régiment des Conscrits de la Garde royale 1810-1812 puis du Régiment des Chasseurs de la Garde royale 1813-1814
link

In case you are after the ordinary guard foot artillery:
Planches sur les uniformes l'artillerie à pied de la Garde royale 1810-1814
link
Planches sur les uniformes du train de l'artillerie de la Garde royale 1805-1814
link

DevoutDavout06 May 2023 12:43 p.m. PST

Holy cow. What a fountain of amazing info. As always, from PR. Thank you very much for taking the time! This will allow me a lot more detail that I had settled for before as well, with the single plate I had.

DevoutDavout06 May 2023 2:20 p.m. PST

Interesting, in 1811 then, the uniform of the artillery train changed pretty drastically, from an olive to the drab sky blue with the bright green facings.

ultimatewargamer06 May 2023 7:29 p.m. PST

Eagle miniature's has a Italian limber rider. hope this helps.
Link: link

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.