"warrior tribes" Topic

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book review

"The violent migration of Europeans to the New World was very much like violent migrations throughout history and across cultures, most likely including successive waves of North American Indians (though the history there is murky). Yet instead of understanding these events in the context of larger historical patterns, the Indian Wars are cast as a morality tale in the manner of Howard Zinn, in which the actions of the European settlers are represented as uniquely reprehensible. This fantasy may be an inversion of past jingoistic and racist caricatures of American Indians as "savages," but it is not more historically accurate."

Indeed, although the word "captive" makes a lot of appearances in the book, it is selectively employed. When Europeans take people unwillingly to harsh work environments, or to be sold to others, these victims are called "slaves." But when American Indians do the same thing, Hämäläinen euphemistically describes those victims as "captives." In fact, a number of tribes were energetic participants in the trade of other indigenous people, selling slaves to other tribes and to Europeans. Although Hämäläinen shows an admirable willingness to discuss such practices, his discomfort is palpable.

Rather than revealing the cultural chasm between indigenous people and Europeans, the historical record teaches us just how similar they were. Each vied for status and power, kept slaves, engaged in genocide against neighboring groups, mistreated women, indulged ethnocentrism, and so on. Tribes or confederations such as the Iroquois, Sioux, or Comanche were violent warrior cultures that recall the Spartans. This observation isn't intended to denigrate Native Americans, it is simply evidence of our shared (if profoundly flawed) humanity.

I read this in graduate school. It is a great book.

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A lot of interesting information on Native American tribes attacking, displacing, and enslaving each other.

Thanks, I'll look for that.

Too bad a large portion of our society can't handle the truth (apologies to Mr. Nicholson), Doc.

I guess you could say that when morality norms change, it becomes difficult to look back. I am glad that mankind has improved.

Collective moral standards have changed through the years. But human nature across cultures remains capable of the noblest acts of selflessness as well as the most horrible cruelties. The natives of the Americas were neither the idealized "noble savages" dreamed by Enlightenment thinkers, nor the "savages" despised by many colonists. And yes, great cruelties were practiced between various tribes before European contact.

Exactly true. Every race is just as mean, nasty and evil as the other. They are all just as capable of kindness and good.

"Yeah, It stinks bad. And we all covered up in it too. Ain't nobody clean. Be nice to get clean, though."

Great quote. Great movie!

Morality norms have changed, some for the worse. And I expect there is just as much conquest and genocide as ever. Certainly in my lifetime there has been. (born in 1946)

The west has come to feel badly about it, yes. and that is a good thing. To the extent feelings matter.

And I expect there is just as much conquest and genocide as ever.

I don't think so. The general trend seems to be toward less war and other violence, but more media coverage of it.

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OSL, over what timeframe are we speaking? The mathematicians are saying less violence since the 1990s. That is a blink in the eye.

The disruptions underway today are as profound and sweeping as, say, those between 1450 and 1600, and coming at a much faster pace. There WILL be war.

And there are certainly as many rogue aggressor nations today as in the 1930s. I fear we ain't seen nothing yet.

"Too bad a large portion of our society can't handle the truth"

I don't think it's a matter of not being able to handle the truth. There's power to be gained by ignoring the truth.

While the English weren't saints, (except maybe the Pilgrims, didn't they call themselves saints?), the expansion in North America was far less barbaric than many others in history. We at least tried to be lawful. It's too bad we're human and failed so dramatically sometimes.

I do not recall that the Pilgrims called themselves saints, but yes, I agree that the English at least tried. When two cultures which are thousands of years apart in development come into close contact, the weaker one will be destroyed. Even without the diseases.

Jefferson instructed Lewis and Clark to carry the "kinepox" to inoculate willing Indians as protection against small pox.

"Carry with you some matter of the kine pox, inform those of them with whom you may be, of it's efficacy as a preservative from the small pox; and instruct & encourage them in the use of it. This may be especially done wherever you may winter."